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BornInCantaloup

Agent of Chaos
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Feb 9, 2010
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Cantaloupe Island
Seeing the number of demands for playable, interesting maps,
I've regenerated a number of starts under the Rainforest template, giving each of them a quick worldbuilder peek.

If you don't know about Rainforest, it's all about tons of pigs, rice tiles and rivers longer than the Amazon crossing a jungle galore. And then there are bananas.
(Get higher tech, get workers, gobble up land and get workers again.)

Handpicked leader is Lincoln (PHI/CHA ; Mall/Marine).
Random crew is random but there are 7 of them (1 extra).
No huts, no events.

Start is a nice central position on this flat map. Not the richest I've seen but a well-balanced one, if I can recognize one :
Spoiler :



Have fun !
 

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Hint, in case the settling location isn't clear :

Spoiler :
You're grabbing the river, here, for free trade routes and extra goodness.


I've started playing.
Actually, I've reached 1560 BC, or t61, and it does seem to me that the early turns are rather tricky.
The tech path, especially, but also the city management require careful consideration. Be warned.
Thinking ahead helps (i.e. what do you wanna do, what do you wanna have in 50 turns ?). Then reverse engineer.
 
Not started on this map, but settling on Rainforest is a bit tricky due to the need for IW to do just about anything past the first ~3 cities. Being able to conquer an early capital helps, but that may of course not always be possible.

Starting area doesn't look great. Unless the warrior to hill reveals anything good north, I guess it's better to move south. Often a problem on Rainforest is lack of hills too, so I hope there are more nearby.
 
Sounds an interesting challenge. How to reach IW and have an economy too by the quickest date. Hmmm.
 
Yes, RExing isn't really an option.
One needs to tech up, first. Or so I think.

Jungle tiles require too much tech.
IW and Calendar should be quite high priority, probably. How you get there, though, is up for debate.
 
Hmmm that is a challenging start. AH looks a strong early tech. Cottages will be tough with minimal grassland commerce tile. It may even be worth building up some gold at start if unsure on tech routes. Plus the complication of what the worker can actually do.

Does settling in place actually grab you the river?
 
I think the strategy here is clear techwise for me. Won't say anything yet. See what others do.
 
Hmmm that is a challenging start. AH looks a strong early tech. Cottages will be tough with minimal grassland commerce tile. It may even be worth building up some gold at start if unsure on tech routes. Plus the complication of what the worker can actually do.

Does settling in place actually grab you the river?
More riverside should be appealing.

Not too spoilerish of an answer but in spoilers regardless because I'm irremediably informed about this map. And I think it shows. Hints below :
Spoiler :
Yes, AH first is likely needed to improve the pigs.
No Hunting means the tech may have to be backfilled early, in case of nearby resources (furs & deers are common).

Banking gold, I wouldn't do : that would delay the worker techs.
Gold deficit appears from city 2, that's a rather long way off.

CHA gets you a pretty high happy cap.
Low commerce means cottages. Commerce specials mean one can afford to sidetrack a lot easier.
These Rainforest maps have a very low hills count. So infrastructure (gran, lib) requires Slavery.
Without commerce, AH + Pottery + Writing + Bronze takes forever. And add Priesthood on top :goodjob:
Without commerce specials, sacrifices have to be made. Question is what, and when. Needs a hierarchy.
Prolly need to pay attention to timings : build orders vs tech discoveries.

Also, the lake tile is kinda like a riverside cottage. Might have some use ?
 
Spoiler :
Oh I backed filled most techs. I agree about lakes. Getting commerce here will be tough. I plan to beeline calendar.
 
Our starting position...

Spoiler :
...kind of sucks. Who wants to work a lake tile when there are visible un-jungled riverside tiles anyway? I went wandering south with the settler, once moving onto the hill with the warrior revealed nothing exciting. Found a much better spot 3S2E, which gives us 3 precious hills, 2x un-jungled pigs, wet rice that will require IW to unlock, and one suspiciously un-jungled tile that turns out to be horses. Not to mention 8 further green riverside tiles. It's a no-brainer, I think. Also leaves open the option of settling a good second city near the starting position that won't even need IW to get off the ground. I think finding and settling the capital here makes the game a lot easier. More riverside for cottaging, more hammer tiles for the bureau bonus as well, faster expansion.
 
I can't say I'll play this map to the end (SGOTM incoming) but here are
My first 50 turns :

Spoiler :
I settled 1S to get more riverside. The capital is looking good with 3 pigs.
Research goes AH. City starts on a worker. Warrior goes scout North.
Spoiler :


We discover close by furs and bananas.
The furs are appealing for city 2 to compensate for the lack of commerce in the capital. Conceivably, that city could work a rice tile after IW and share a pigs from the capital before that.
Rome is met from the north.

After AH, I went for The Wheel. With a single hill to mine, Mining seems extremely costly to research.
The Wheel gets trade routes if city 2 goes to the NE. And unlocks Pottery.

Spoiler :


Further exploration reveal all jungled resources. So I set to research Hunting next. The furs are the only additional tile I can reasonably claim.
Iirc, Tokugawa found us from the SW (not sure).
The scouting warrior is now following the river to the south, so as to circle the land around the cap. Finding city spots is what matters.

At size 3, the capital starts on a settler. Growing 1 more size would only take 2 turns but it would also only add 1hpt towards settlers. So, there's no reason to wait :
Spoiler :


With Hunting done, the tech choices are :
- Pottery ;
- Writing ;
- Mining --> Bronze ;
- Sailing ;
- Mysticism.
As I mentioned in a post above :
- RExing isn't really an option : we can't see very many early city spots ;
- infrastructure requires Bronze.
So, for now, BW has little use : can't REx. And we can't afford infra.
Mysticism might be fine for some gambit. Sailing/Writing have more marginal utility.
Pottery we go, so as to develop the land and make use of the high happy cap.
City 2 will borrow a pigs, so it will grow fast and hit size 4 in a reasonable timeframe : we can't get Granaries but we can get cottages.
Spoiler :


Settler is out, in position, guarded by the warrior, worker will complete the road before it settles. Washington completes the second warrior with overflow :
Spoiler :


Now we get a a nice little micro problem that requires solving.
But first, city two is settled and works the pigs. It will grow in 4, then work improved furs, then grow in 4 again, then work a weaker tile.
Spoiler :


So, what's the tough point ?
Deciding on Washington's build order, that it is.
Namely : the city wants to train another settler. Question is how.
There are very many options.
- starting on the settler this turn, it takes 9 turns. City can work either a lake or a forest. 9 turns either way.
But the city can also grow to size 4 in a single turn. So it can :
- grow to 4, and work 2 forests, to do 13hpt for a 8 turns settler --> growing allows to get the settler out in the same 9 turns. There would be 4 overflow hammers, so a lake tile could be worked for 4 turns. Note that this option comes out behind in commerce from the above one, working a lake for 9 turns. It does come out ahead in food and hammers, however. A single growth turn for food. Irrelevant hammers for now (decay in warriors ; useless in barracks). Eh ? See ? Not so easy.
- and it can grow to 4 and do 11hpt working 2x lakes. That's 99hammers over 9 turns. If the city works a forest for a turn, that's 100 hammers over 9 turns. Plus a turn for growth : the settler can be out in 10 turns and we'll have worked 20 turns of lakes. That's about 20 more commerce than what we get in the first scenario. I think, justifies the 1 turn delay on the settler. Especially so since we cannot see, yet, a profitable location for city 2 and that city will, likely, borrow another pigs tile from the capital.

So it goes like this :
Spoiler :






Now, with Pottery done, another conundrum is offered to us.
Writing ? Bronze ?
If we want infra, we need to go Mining + Bronze. *Whistles* That's expensive. We can't mine much, we can't chop much, we can't REx much. It took me a little time to figure that out but for you I make it brief.
Writing has no immediate benefit BUT with our lowish maintenance we can :
- grow cities on cottages ;
- research Alphabet and backfill stuff.
So, actually, we're skipping Mining.

Spoiler :


Oh... I cannot remember when, but also met Elizabeth (nice) and then Mansa Musa (very nice).
Settler is out ! We've found another tile that we can improve :woohoo:
Here it is, can you see it ?
Spoiler :

So we get a horse city and will share another corn from the capital. The capital is getting increasingly weaker with each of these cities. So settling, really, isn't a rush.
The good point is that Wash can still grow on 1 pig and we have the tech to develop the flatland (cottages).

Boston has produced its warrior. It switches over to a worker. We can grow. We need the workforce.
And, while we're at it, Washington will produce a worker, too.
There's no real use for settler at the moment.
Also, the maintenance from city 4 would make it a drain on the economy. Currently, reaching Alphabet asap is the main objective.
Spoiler :


You can see from the surroundings that not much can be done without IW and Calendar. Calendar, however, would unlock some most excellent city spots.

Settler gets in position. We're preparing some nifty tile swaps to complete the workers :
Spoiler :


Tile swaps ! Both workers will complete with 0 overflow.
Meanwhile, we'll keep the number of worked lake tiles to their maximum, as long as they do not delay the workers :
Spoiler :




With our lowish maintenance and focus on commerce, the science slider can be raised again. Also, exploring warriors find a couple of barb cities. Metal would be nice to have :
Spoiler :


So, at 2000 BC, we have 3 cities, sizes 4, 3, 1.
3 workers, two of them tasked with cottaging, starting with the shared tiles :
Spoiler :


And a third worker tasked with roading into Hindu Mali.
Will get us trade routes, maybe a blocker city and maybe even religion for culture & happiness :
Spoiler :


We've been first to Writing, so chances are good we'll be first to Alphabet as well.
Only 4 AIs were met. 3 remain. However, I cannot really hope to go greet them. Don't have the military. I probably barely have what it takes to protect my surroundings.
Archers might be nice to have. Swords would be better.
Once Alphabet will be know, we'll need :
- settlers ;
- military.

Wonders situation :
- none built. An Oracle gambit could have worked nicely, although I'm happy with the early cottages development.
Religions :
- Judaism not founded.
Likely, AIs have a difficult time dealing properly with jungle maps. You need many more workers than usual.

This is it ! I won't get into that much detail over the next updates.
This has almost been turn by turn. The early game is the time when turn by turn can make sense.
 
@ Bic

Spoiler :


I pretty much went Ah and beelined alphabet too. Going for IW seemed crazy as I predicted the AI would go for IW early on. I was slower on the expansion as I wasn't sure what the barbs would do. Probably a mistake. I should of settled 1S really.

I did manage to trade alphabet and writing for mining, BW, archery, IW, Masonry, myst, poly and hunting.

Not sure how worker stealing here might of worked as you would struggle to fight off any serious Ai threats

The AI seem somewhat staunted growth by the jungle.
 
@ Gumbolt :

Spoiler :
Where did you settle ? SIP ?
SIP still has 2 pigs, more mines, making Mining a better tech and repelling barbs easier.
If the southern pigs doesn't get jungled early on, then that's probably alright. City 2 can get pigs + horses in first ring.

Alpha beeline, I think, is good. It's a clear pick, once it's been considered.
Skipping Hunting, I do not know. The furs spot could be a 3rd city for you... Depends on the timings. Working the furs pay off for Hunting really fast.
You'd need several gems tiles, I think, to justify self-researching IW. Even then, IW vs Alpha is debattable.

Settling 1S does get easier commerce and maybe faster Alpha, since the furs can be settled 2nd.
That's impossible to know on t0, however.

Worker stealing... I don't know... I barely found any AIs borders.


:)
 
Spoiler :
yes I put a road on the southern pigs. Not settled the fur yet. Probably should of. Yes I went horse pigs for 2nd city.

I got alphabet 1400bc. Delayed third city for this. Spent too much time building warriors really. I may have just lost a good site to a barb city.
 
Spoiler :
Wherever you settle there are actually 3 further spots that can contribute without IW. So self-teching IW is definitely a no-no. Scouting as ever is oh-so-important, to reveal the cows spot to the south-west, which also has an un-jungled riverside tile. I don't think I've ever seen a strategic resource directly next to a food special? So I don't think it can be metal. In any case I cottaged it ASAP, and those cows are a very nice early health bonus.

Beelining Alpha is probably what I'll do as well. I considered an HA rush on Mansa instead.

Pros: good chance of extorting Alpha from him, he's close.
Cons: he founded a religion, he's the best tech trading partner in the game, too much jungle to road through, SKIRMISHERS

I decided that's a big fat no.
 
AIs tech slower than slow on this mapscript so any choice will be fine imo. An Alpha beeline via AH > Min > Wrt > Alpha screams some sort of very early rush. I'd probably opt to open towards pottery and use 2-3 cities to help grow 7-9 cottages while getting to Alpha a bit slower > AH > Whl > Pot > Min > Wrt > Alpha.

Let the AI settle and improve as many crappy jungle cities/tiles as possible. For this reason a later war is attractive too. No point in conquering early cities if they have no improvements and surrounded by jungle.
 
Main issue with this game is the AI will settle poor jungle cities. Where the player will have tech lead and know they need more workers. Will the Ai be clever enough to build more workers due to the jungle??
 
Confirmed that the AIs are semi-crippled on this map, although they do manage to expand fairly fast. I got declared on by a curmudgeonly neighbour right in the heat of the Lib race. Totally unprepared, normally I'd just re-start but I kept going. Fended off the attack, slapped together a stack of my own, actually started taking cities, and still won Lib.

This map is a lot of fun. Raging barbs definitely kept things....interesting, as well.
 
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