Player stats, sales, and reception speculation thread

[Smegger213]

Counting numbers is not really needed as steam keeps the count

All reviews 53% Negative , Current reviews 54% Negative .

The number of reviews and perceived miniscule "improvements " in negative reviews can laughably be ignored .

From the very small number's involved it would take a massive swing in rating's to "positive" or centuries to make any difference

Totally agree with that view too.
Pointless counting weekly, its the overall total that counts.
Plus a monthly count of reviews, and player numbers.
Pointless saying recent weeks have more positive reviews, when the total count percentage hasn't changed. Its sat at 53% negative for at least the last 2 months.

 

[stealth_nsk]

People focus on metrics they like and discard metrics they don't like. Nothing changes in this thread.

 

[nakzox]

80% is an important Steam or Metacritic metric, and I can't remember which one. Maybe both. 80% is when Positive ticks to Very Positive on Steam, and I have no idea how much stock is put into Metacritic anymore.

That said, suggesting that the rating must get all the way to 80% to count as acceptable threshold for determining a positive trend is why I asked for said acceptable threshold to be "reasonable".

I guess that means I need to determine reasonable. A 10% sustained maximum would probably be the limit, given how much work it'll likely take to shift the existing % of reviews that high. Steam currently has English language reviews at 46% positive of about 24.4k reviews. Getting that to 56% would take at least another 2.5 - 3k positive reviews and 0 negative ones, to put it in context. Personally, I think the trend would be evidencial significantly before that point was hit.

Like many other things in the world, if it supports a certain narrative, then it's important. If it doesn't support a certain narrative, then it's irrelevant.

 

[Gorbles]

Has there really been more positive reviews recently though?

According to the stats you yourself posted, the % of positive-to-negative reviews has increased in favour of the positive (5 - 7% movement).

You can disagree with whatever conclusions people draw from the data. But the data is there for everyone to see.

 

[Smegger213]

According to the stats you yourself posted, the % of positive-to-negative reviews has increased in favour of the positive (5 - 7% movement).

You can disagree with whatever conclusions people draw from the data. But the data is there for everyone to see.

Yet the overall negative percentage has not changed in months. Its still at 53%.

 

[PlatinumPoster]

Yet the overall negative percentage has not changed in months. Its still at 53%.

The overall would take a while to change. If its gonna start to change the first step is a trend of recent reviews being positive; thats how it works

 

[Smegger213]

The overall would take a while to change. If its gonna start to change the first step is a trend of recent reviews being positive; thats how it works

You need a ton of weeks were you get more positive than negative to make it change.
That just isn't happening yet. We've had a couple of weeks where its just about got to 50% or just under 50%.
So, at the moment, its nothing to shout about.

 

[IntelligentDisk]

Here's an example of why its a waste of time trying to count reviews on a weekly basis.

First of all, lets start by counting the last 3 weeks, starting on a Tuesday, seeing as the game was released on a Tuesday.

Week start Tue 30th Sept = 149 positive, 205 negative = 42% positive.
Week start Tue 7th Oct = 123 positive, 127 negative = 49.2% positive.
Week start Tue 14th Oct = 97 positive, 100 negative = 49.24% positive.

But what do we get if we start our weekly count from a Thursday?

Week start Thur 2nd Oct = 139 positive, 174 negative = 44.4% positive.
Week start Thur 9th Oct = 107 positive, 106 negative = 50.2% positive.
Week start Thur 16th Oct = 101 positive, 101 negative = 50% positive.

So, clearly, I can show a better % positive result by starting my weekly counts from a Thursday.

That is why its a complete waste of time trying to count review numbers on a weekly basis.

Obviously if you use different time periods you're going to get a different set of reviews. I'm don't know what this is meant to prove or disprove.

Yet the overall negative percentage has not changed in months. Its still at 53%.

That doesn't disprove the fact that recent reviews have improved and the highest Steam positive % since launch.

 

[Smegger213]

Obviously if you use different time periods you're going to get a different set of reviews. I'm don't know what this is meant to prove or disprove.


That doesn't disprove the fact that recent reviews have improved and the highest Steam positive % since launch.

View attachment 745896

I have proved that if you change your week start date, you can get wildly different numbers.
I correctly started my weeks on a Tuesday, because as you pointed out, the game was released on a Tuesday.
You incorrectly started your weeks on a Thursday. Shock, horror, when you start on a Thursday you get a higher positive percentage.

 

[aieeegrunt]

The data is not junk per se, it is just what you make of it. You certainly can't draw conclusions from some small percentage shifts over a short time period, but in the long run and with a large number of data points, this data is very valid. A game which has almost 50k reviews on Steam with an average rating of 47% is obviously in serious trouble. To say there are no quantitative results for this conclusion is absurd and is more wishful thinking than anything else.

It’s straight up denial

Can y'all work out a reasonable acceptable threshold for a positive trend upfront, or are you just going to say to every bit of potentially positive news that it isn't enough?

All of this argument seems to boil down to "well it doesn't convince me", from whoever posts it.

Cool. It doesn't have to. That's not the point of the thread.

Someone already did the math upthread, and for Civ7’s overall review trend to go up to a decent level would require an impossible landslide of almost entirely positive reviews.

Arguing over fractions of a percent is missing the point, which is that the game both most a lot of sales over it’s predecessor, and over half of those that did buy it dislike it.

No number of angels dancing on no number of pins can change that.

 

[IntelligentDisk]

I have proved that if you change your week start date, you can get wildly different numbers.
I correctly started my weeks on a Tuesday, because as you pointed out, the game was released on a Tuesday.
You incorrectly started your weeks on a Thursday. Shock, horror, when you start on a Thursday you get a higher positive percentage.

The day of the week is irrelevant to my claim (based on factual data) of which we recently had the first 2 weeks since launch over 50% positive. A week is a unit of measurement. 7 days. 2 weeks is 14 days.

These 14 days just so happen to perfectly fit in with weeks 36 & 37 since the early access launch. The fact that they perfectly fit in to these weeks is irrelevant to my claim (again based on factual data).

You're getting strung on this day of the week thing for some reason, likely in a poor attempt to disprove what I'm saying. The game was launched into "early access" on the 6th, the "full" launch was on the 11th. 64% of all Steam reviews came before the 11th during the "early access". Are you saying you'd want me to start any graphs on the 11th which cut out 64% of all reviews? Why would you want to cut out 64% of reviews?

 

[Smegger213]

The day of the week is irrelevant to my claim (based on factual data) of which we recently had the first 2 weeks since launch over 50% positive. A week is a unit of measurement. 7 days. 2 weeks is 14 days.

These 14 days just so happen to perfectly fit in with weeks 36 & 37 since the early access launch. The fact that they perfectly fit in to these weeks is irrelevant to my claim (again based on factual data).

You're getting strung on this day of the week thing for some reason, likely in a poor attempt to disprove what I'm saying. The game was launched into "early access" on the 6th, the "full" launch was on the 11th. 64% of all Steam reviews came before the 11th during the "early access". Are you saying you'd want me to start any graphs on the 11th which cut out 64% of all reviews? Why would you want to cut out 64% of reviews?

You are the one that keeps banging on about higher weekly positive reviews.
Yet, I have proved that you get different numbers depending on what day of the week you start your weekly count from.
You started your counts from a Thursday, and low and behold, when you start on a Thursday you get 2.4% more for 1st week of October, 1% more for the 2nd week etc etc.
Oh and your claim of 2 weeks of over 50% positive is false. Going by your own Thursday start date, the last 2 weeks scored 50.2% and 50% dead.
When you start the week on a Tuesday, you get 49.2% positive for those 2 weeks. A difference of 0.8%.
Oh and your statement about early access means nothing because we are talking about the reviews for the last month only.

 

[King Flevance]

Arguing over fractions of a percent is missing the point, which is that the game both most a lot of sales over it’s predecessor, and over half of those that did buy it dislike it.

No number of angels dancing on no number of pins can change that.

This is why I am only following this thread very loosely. In reality, nothing has changed since launch. Reviews started negative and then trended negative all the way down to 47% 8 months after launch and the newest reviews are still 'mixed'.

I am currently getting the 1 more turn itch fairly often when I play. I am doing the thing where I say "I am going to play 50 turns of my game." Then, I realize on turn 51, I complete a Wonder. So, I say "I guess I will play 60 turns." Or I look up and realize I played 61 or 62 turns and I think "75 turns is a much more satisfying number." Etc. So, it is good that Civ 7 has gotten to this point, but it also still has moments where I just shut it down a few turns early because it feels bland and dragging on - or age transition is coming up and it is just not something I have the time to sort through or want to deal with so I just shut the game down. So I can clearly see the reason for the controversy.

Civ 7 isn't doing well at all and without some good faith developer support to make up for such a terrible launch, it will not turn around. A terrible launch usually makes a game company work twice as hard to earn consumer favor, which makes it seem like it would be impractical, but it happens quite often. If they don't have a solid plan up their sleeve already, they need to be working behind the scene on a Classic Mode for damage control. (But perhaps they released the game unfinished and their plan is to "finish" developing the game as originally planned through patches having been forced to release early - they would not be allowed to tell us this.) The most risky thing they could do is have no current plan and refuse a classic mode. That is like trying to win at "high card" when the other guy already pulled a face card. It's possible, but unlikely.

 

[IntelligentDisk]

You are the one that keeps banging on about higher weekly positive reviews.
Yet, I have proved that you get different numbers depending on what day of the week you start your weekly count from.
You started your counts from a Thursday, and low and behold, when you start on a Thursday you get 2.4% more for 1st week of October, 1% more for the 2nd week etc etc.
Oh and your claim of 2 weeks of over 50% positive is false. Going by your own Thursday start date, the last 2 weeks scored 50.2% and 50% dead.
When you start the week on a Tuesday, you get 49.2% positive for those 2 weeks. A difference of 0.8%.
Oh and your statement about early access means nothing because we are talking about the reviews for the last month only.

Higher weekly positive reviews are a fact. I'm sorry it offends you so much. Well done for proving you get different numbers if you use different time frames.

I've never said about a Thursday start date. You made that up. Thanks for acknowledging there was a 2 week period above 50% positive for the first time since launch - it only took about 50 posts over 5 days.

Part of my claim has always been its been the best 2 week period since launch so the early access reviews clearly come into play.

 

[Smegger213]

Higher weekly positive reviews are a fact. I'm sorry it offends you so much. Well done for proving you get different numbers if you use different time frames.

I've never said about a Thursday start date. You made that up. Thanks for acknowledging there was a 2 week period above 50% positive for the first time since launch - it only took about 50 posts over 5 days.

Part of my claim has always been its been the best 2 week period since launch so the early access reviews clearly come into play.

Quote: Your exact quoted numbers from a few pages back.
"SteamDB.

1. 10/09 - 21 positive, 8 negative
2. 10/10 - 18 positive, 14 negative
3. 10/11 - 22 positive, 17 negative
4. 10/12 - 15 positive, 23 negative
5. 10/13 - 11 positive, 23 negative
6. 10/14 - 12 positive, 10 negative
7. 10/15 - 8 positive, 11 negative

That's the first week. 107 positive, 106 negative, 213 total, 50.2% positive.

1. 10/16 - 7 positive, 18 negative
2. 10/17 - 17 positive, 18 negative
3. 10/18 - 18 positive, 19 negative
4. 10/19 - 20 positive, 11 negative
5. 10/20 - 15 positive, 13 negative
6. 10/21 - 16 positive, 14 negative
7. 10/22 - 8 positive, 8 negative

That's the second week. 101 positive, 101 negative. 202 total, 50% positive."

Correct me if I am wrong. But are not the 9th and 16th October both a Thursday?
Plus you claim 2 weeks of above 50% positive, when in fact only one of those weeks is actually above 50%, and then by only 0.2%.

But like I have proved. If you start the week count on a Tuesday you get 2 weeks of 49.2% positive.
Also, it doesn't offend me to see higher positive reviews.
I am just sick of reading you banging on about them.
Especially when you are not even correct to say that 2 weeks got above 50%. They didn't.

 

[Leucarum]

I also feel like it needs to be pointed out again that we're talking about a nudge upwards in reviews not a leap. Civ7 certainly still doesn't have good reviews. It does probably have reviews which are a little less bad.

And while the latest patch certainly didn't even come close to fixing the game, it did go a long way towards fixing a central feature (towns/cities), so.... Should it really be a surprise if reviews nudged up slightly?

TLDR: Is it really worth throwing shade at each other over a couple of %?

 

[IntelligentDisk]

Quote: Your exact quoted numbers from a few pages back.
"SteamDB.

1. 10/09 - 21 positive, 8 negative
2. 10/10 - 18 positive, 14 negative
3. 10/11 - 22 positive, 17 negative
4. 10/12 - 15 positive, 23 negative
5. 10/13 - 11 positive, 23 negative
6. 10/14 - 12 positive, 10 negative
7. 10/15 - 8 positive, 11 negative

That's the first week. 107 positive, 106 negative, 213 total, 50.2% positive.

1. 10/16 - 7 positive, 18 negative
2. 10/17 - 17 positive, 18 negative
3. 10/18 - 18 positive, 19 negative
4. 10/19 - 20 positive, 11 negative
5. 10/20 - 15 positive, 13 negative
6. 10/21 - 16 positive, 14 negative
7. 10/22 - 8 positive, 8 negative

That's the second week. 101 positive, 101 negative. 202 total, 50% positive."

Correct me if I am wrong. But are not the 9th and 16th October both a Thursday?
Plus you claim 2 weeks of above 50% positive, when in fact only one of those weeks is actually above 50%, and then by only 0.2%.

But like I have proved. If you start the week count on a Tuesday you get 2 weeks of 49.2% positive.
Also, it doesn't offend me to see higher positive reviews.
I am just sick of reading you banging on about them.
Especially when you are not even correct to say that 2 weeks got above 50%. They didn't.

They're both Thursdays. It doesn't matter what days of the week they are. The point is it's the best 2 week period since launch and you're trying to disprove it by saying... a different 2 week period shows different results? Of course a different time period to the one I'm talking about will show different results...

The overall 2 week period is above 50%. Each week is at least 50%. I'm not "banging on about them". I'm responding to you each time as you're in denial and won't accept we had the best 2 week period since launch, as well as the reviews recently improving.

I also feel like it needs to be pointed out again that we're talking about a nudge upwards in reviews not a leap. Civ7 certainly still doesn't have good reviews. It does probably have reviews which are a little less bad.

And while the latest patch certainly didn't even come close to fixing the game, it did go a long way towards fixing a central feature (towns/cities), so.... Should it really be a surprise if reviews nudged up slightly?

TLDR: Is it really worth throwing shade at each other over a couple of %?

No one has claimed the reviews have made a giant leap forwards, just that recent reviews have improved and we had the best 2 week period since launch. It's a shame there's such big disagreement over facts.

 

[Smegger213]

They're both Thursdays. It doesn't matter what days of the week they are. The point is it's the best 2 week period since launch and you're trying to disprove it by saying... a different 2 week period shows different results? Of course a different time period to the one I'm talking about will show different results...

The overall 2 week period is above 50%. Each week is at least 50%. I'm not "banging on about them". I'm responding to you each time as you're in denial and won't accept we had the best 2 week period since launch, as well as the reviews recently improving.


No one has claimed the reviews have made a giant leap forwards, just that recent reviews have improved and we had the best 2 week period since launch. It's a shame there's such big disagreement over facts.

Off-course you are banging on about them. The fact that you keep coming back to me proves that.
Also, I fail to see how one week of 50.2% and another week of 50% equates to 2 weeks ABOVE 50%?
Also, it does make a difference what day of the week you start counting from. Because if you start on a Tuesday, suddenly its 2 weeks of 49.2% positive.
Also, I am not trying to disprove that the last 2 full weeks have seen the best positive reviews for a good while.
What I am saying is that it means NOTHING until you get lots of weeks where you get more positive than negative reviews. There is no sign that this will happen yet. We need to see a lot more weeks.

If you put the graph to 1 week, you get 94 positive & 97 negative, which puts it back to 49.2%

 

[PlatinumPoster]

I also feel like it needs to be pointed out again that we're talking about a nudge upwards in reviews not a leap. Civ7 certainly still doesn't have good reviews. It does probably have reviews which are a little less bad.

And while the latest patch certainly didn't even come close to fixing the game, it did go a long way towards fixing a central feature (towns/cities), so.... Should it really be a surprise if reviews nudged up slightly?

TLDR: Is it really worth throwing shade at each other over a couple of %?

IntelligentDesk isnt even raving about some upturn in reviews to be honest, they simply pointed out thats its the best 2 weeks since release. No idea why Smegger keeps on talking about irrelevant things. Its all a bit odd

 

[Leucarum]

IntelligentDesk isnt even raving about some upturn in reviews to be honest, they simply pointed out thats its the best 2 weeks since release. No idea why Smegger keeps on talking about irrelevant things. Its all a bit odd

It's more than 2 people but definitely I think we could all do with a little perspective. There's gonna be noise, reviews are gonna drop down again, and the changes are pretty small in any case... This could go on for a while.