Policies

[Mortal D]

On another subject, are u sure that geting culture when conquering enemy city is a good idea? ( spoils of war )

Conquest was suppose to handicap SP progress, so that we had to chose between expansion and culture. Wouldnt it be great - and thats a system from civ 4 - to switch culture with sience bonus ?

That would look interesting. If possible that is, as i dont know the limits, moders such as yourself Thal, have available.

 

[Txurce]

On another subject, are u sure that geting culture when conquering enemy city is a good idea? ( spoils of war )

Conquest was suppose to handicap SP progress, so that we had to chose between expansion and culture. Wouldnt it be great - and thats a system from civ 4 - to switch culture with sience bonus ?

That would look interesting. If possible that is, as i dont know the limits, moders such as yourself Thal, have available.

There was a long discussion about this at the time. I took the same position that you did. But Thal ultimately felt that the SP tree is too central a part of the game to limit its availability. Since then he's been trying to make victory about as hard, no matter what sort of empire you have. Domination would be excepted, of course, and no one with a wide empire has yet achieved the sort of culture victories possible with tall empire.

 

[Seek]

While I like the idea of the science bonus from SoW, the (quite compelling) argument against it is that conquerors with large empires will often have better science rates than peaceful ones. Since larger empires will be hampered by slower culture rates, the difference is less dramatic.

 

[Mortal D]

This is the bug i was talking about :




Uploaded with ImageShack.us


TBC + CSD + RED + non important mini mods... So basicaly only TBC to count.

Important to note is that the higher value is actually the correct one, and so I realise that this is actually a minor bug that show wrong value at policy screen with dosnt affect the game.

But that mean that culture in midle/late game - after museums - skyrocket like hell.
Thats most likely cuz u fixed old museum bug, where culture from population wosnt affected by modif %.

Only conclusion is the need to radicaly increase later SP's cost. Ur mod add lot options - including museumfix - to gain culture, so thats only natural. Also the game loose its fun, when i dont care what SP i pick as the next one will be in 8 turns.

8 turns in the midle of renes era on marathon speed, with no artist specialist in cities. As the game progres the culture per turn will skyrocket even more, but by then, and even b4 B. towers I will prob have most if not all the SP's.

That need a fix/balance. Im sure this isnt just about my own opinion, and wish others will post their own experience with culture.

Another topic :

"*b12 Military Tradition and Spoils of War no longer erroneously give their vanilla effects."

I updated my b11 game to b12 and out of nowhere my units get more exp points from combat. 4 exp from ranged attack on city and 7 exp from a mele fight for example. A oposite to your intentions i gues. If "more exp" was in one of above policies in vanilla then that rly confuse me as it dint happen b4 and ur fix have opposite effect ;p

Edit : My sp's were same as on image above btw.
Edit2 : And ya even tho i updated in the midle of existing game, i did clr the catch etc.

Just raporting :]

GL HF

btw : Is there a way to give AI, and only AI, boost to culture? They always lack behind in SP's, whenever they mass cities or not.

 

[Thalassicus]

Thanks for pointing out the policy screen error, and I'll eliminate that decimal point.

It's intended that cultural victories can be achieved sooner than vanilla.

There's a vanilla bug with the savegame cache that can cause mod data to linger in saves. This save cache issue is separate from the general game cache problems. That's the reason I recommend updating mods between one game and the next. What you're seeing with the extra experience is that bug.

 

[Mortal D]

K so the exp bug will "expire" with new game. But the culture problem remain.

Victory condition and points u say ? Thats where the problem between us is I suppose.
I couldnt care less about victory/points, and play for the fun of play itself.

To have fun growing my civilization and wage wars in late game.
Think next game i will check only time victory. Ya that should do it.

btw: where in ur mod, i can change the cost increase of SP's ?

<Where Name="POLICY_COST_INCREASE_TO_BE_EXPONENTED" /> maybe ? Dont wanna mess randomly .

Prefer if it was cost increase with each new SP not base.

 

[Thalassicus]

I noticed you got the culture policies in Tradition, Liberty, and Freedom, and built museums. These are the conditions that achieve a cultural victory by the late industrial / early modern period.

If you want to get lots of culture buildings and policies but not achieve a cultural victory... not sure what I could do that wouldn't nerf cultural victories too.

I've attached my modding spreadsheet. Go to the "Policy Costs" sheet and look for the "Policy Costs" section on the lower right, where you can experiment with the formula.

 

[Mortal D]

What can i do ? If i can afford to rush buy culture building, then why wouldnt i ?

We r going back to gold problem here. There is just to much gold. I already dont care anymoire about production in my cities. Capital is GP generator and early wonder powerhouse, second city is production center for units etc, and every other city get everything purchased. In late renes era i can rush buy every single building when i settle new city. Thats so WRONG!
With so many GE's i can have a wonder in each of top 5 city easly and thats + 100 % culture with freedom. Dont get mne wrong Thal, i very like ur mod, but this game become so EASY its not even fun anymore >_>

Well of to a new game, since i screwed my last one with mod update.

will try to start on some remote tundra island haha That will be a challenge

 

[Thalassicus]

You made the game easier, indirectly.

Modding science to 25% of normal is proportionally equivalent a 400% gold and production bonus. When gold, population and production significantly outpace research, you end up having too big an army, lots of buildings, and too many policies.

 

[Mortal D]

Sry for making problems for u thal, but i ask only for a value in mod files.

I cant use MOd buddy. I have old HD with only 5 GB for win exp. I simply dotn have space for visual studio, framework and such

And yes thal, i want to get big cities, i want to be strong, i want to have a lot of gold and strong army.

Thats what this game is about, right ? I only stated that i dont have any "victory goal" when i play.
If i see nice spot for a city then i settle. If i want a war then i wage war. Only goal in all that is to have fun and make prosperus civilization.

AI role here is to interact with me, interrup and compate as well as threaten me by a possibility of winning the game.

 

[Thalassicus]

You can alter the values directly in the files, modbuddy is not required.

 

[Mortal D]

But i dunno what this "xls" file is. So i cant even open it ;p
And TY TY TY

Cant believe i dint think about that b4 ! Talking about science here.

Ya i slowed it down, and i still can lauch speceship in 1500 ad lol >_>

But i will go to my mod files and increase purchase with gold ratio for marathon )

Edit : Actually i will increase damn everything

 

[Thalassicus]

I use LibreOffice but converted it to Excel format since most people use that for spreadsheets.

 

[Busdriver]

I'm in the process of finishing what has turned out to be a very long conquest game. I chose to go into autocracy this game, and I've found Autocracy, Populism and Militarism all very useful for long sustained war. I'm most likely going to take Fascism very soon, due to the rarity of Uranium (I only have 3), but oil and aluminum have been very abundant, reducing the usefulness of this policy. This is an earlier version of the beta, before Thal changed the resource placement, though. Police State, however, does not seem like a useful policy, which is unfortunate, since happiness has been a huge issue for me as I have been wading through Ghandi's size 30+ cities, which spend over 30 turns in resistance before I can finally take control. The moment I do, I simply rush buy a courthouse (rendering police state useless except for razing) and happiness buildings. I think autocracy would benefit a lot from a better happiness policy. Two ideas I have for improving this policy would be to either:
1) Cut in half the amount of time cities spend in resistance
2) Cut in half unhappiness from cities in resistance
Either of these would help immensely to allow a warmongerer to handle the massive late game cities without running into a wall of angry citizens. They would also make the autocracy tree more useful overall.

 

[Txurce]

I think autocracy would benefit a lot from a better happiness policy. Two ideas I have for improving this policy would be to either:
1) Cut in half the amount of time cities spend in resistance
2) Cut in half unhappiness from cities in resistance
Either of these would help immensely to allow a warmongerer to handle the massive late game cities without running into a wall of angry citizens. They would also make the autocracy tree more useful overall.

I have two basic questions with this:

1. Why should it be easier to swallow a size-30 city?
2. Why would the captive populace be happier under Autocracy than under Freedom?

As it is Autocracy gives you a brutal ability to wage war. There has to be a price for it somewhere.

 

[Thalassicus]

Courthouses are very expensive to rush buy, with a 570% purchase modifier. In comparison, infantry have a 290% purchase mod. This means courthouses are about twice as inefficient to purchase as infantry, and units get even better to purchase with Militarism.

With Police State we can annex cities immediately, skip the courthouse, and get -10% from population. Annex five 30 cities and that's +15, equivalent to both a courthouse and colosseum in each of those cities.

 

[Busdriver]

Does police state affect all unhappiness from annexed cities? I thought it only cut the penalty from no courthouse in half. If so than it's way better than I thought.

 

[Kevin J]

Does police state affect all unhappiness from annexed cities? I thought it only cut the penalty from no courthouse in half. If so than it's way better than I thought.

Yeah, it does. An annexed city under Police State (with no courthouse) produces less unhappiness than a settled city does. At least in base game, I haven't looked at the numbers in Thal's mod.

 

[Txurce]

With Police State we can annex cities immediately, skip the courthouse, and get -10% from population. Annex five 30 cities and that's +15, equivalent to both a courthouse and colosseum in each of those cities.

I took a size 30 city with Police State, and my happiness went down only 15 or so. I then annexed it and my happiness went up 2!

It's good to live in a Police State.

 

[Minor Annoyance]

2. Why would the captive populace be happier under Autocracy than under Freedom?

They're not happier, they just don't complain about being unhappy because they will be shot in the head.