Policies

Thalassicus said:
If I reduced culture income I'd simply reduce culture costs (this curve). The number of policies we acquire is handled independently from income/expenses... if that makes sense.

I agree with Stalker0's and Busdriver's reasoning: if a choice is only good in one situation, and better than all other choices in that situation, then it's really no choice at all. It's similar to my reason for changing England's unique unit. Elizabeth was only good on Archipelago maps and better than anyone else on those maps. With a Factory UB she's more well-rounded now.

These sort of major changes I take my time with to consider all angles of the topic. I consider options for a long while while playing various games, considering what effect particular changes might have at decision-making points in the game. I'll think over the ideas floating around here, but probably won't make any significant changes in this regard for a long while.
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Fair enough:)

One alternative I just thought of to simply tossing culture policies would be to distribute them throughout the trees equally, much like happiness policies, of which there is one per tree. You've already taken a step in this direction by adding culture generation to Honor; if the same is done to Commerce, Patronage, Order, Rationalism and Autocracy it could have a nice effect of balancing the trees in a culture victory and lead to more variation between playthroughs.

Another thing I've been meaning to mention after reading the "Policy costs increase per city" thread is that lowering the penalty for number of cities could be a good - possibly better? - way to go here. The penalty isn't very fun, and it would serve the central purpose of allowing more cities to be competitive wrt SPs. I haven't seen you mention this as an option before, so maybe it's not feasible?
 
I can't say I'd miss the culture-producing policies if they get pulled, but as a last word in their defense, they're at least interesting from the standpoint of investment vs. reward (with the exception of policies with a static reward, like two free policies, which are boring and unimaginative). If you want a significant benefit from those policies, you have to take them as early as possible, but if you do so, you're missing out on other possible benefits at a crucial time in the game, but setting yourself up for even greater reward later. These sort of decisions make for interesting gameplay in my opinion, and I'd hate to see them removed.
 
SlightlyMad said:
I can't say I'd miss the culture-producing policies if they get pulled, but as a last word in their defense, they're at least interesting from the standpoint of investment vs. reward (with the exception of policies with a static reward, like two free policies, which are boring and unimaginative). If you want a significant benefit from those policies, you have to take them as early as possible, but if you do so, you're missing out on other possible benefits at a crucial time in the game, but setting yourself up for even greater reward later. These sort of decisions make for interesting gameplay in my opinion, and I'd hate to see them removed.
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When going for a cultural victory, or even a victory where high culture is very helpful, I think very much along these lines. It's one of the reasons why I hesitated to change Freedom from being the "culture" tree. Seek's proposal to scatter these policies about may work as a compromise, although it's hard to imagine how they wouldn't make the game harder for the culture-seeker.

(By "culture-seeker" I don't even mean so much someone trying to win a Culture victory, since they have to clear multiple trees, but someone who wants culture and beelines for his or her tree.)
 
I think the best solution might ultimately just to give them some other marginal benefit, so they'd still only make sense if you're planning on significant culture production, but would also give you some sort of bonus so you don't feel like you wasted a policy.
 
Slightly off piste...

One problem that holds back specialist economy / tall economy is the few specialist slots.
In Civ4 there was Caste System that allowed unlimited specialists (with no buildings). Particularly now there are no specialists slots on the early buildings eg Library.

Would it be possible for a policy to increase the amount to specialists given by a particular building? Ie A Piety policy that doubles the culture specialists from Temples etc? A rationalist policy that increases the slots given by universities & other buildings.
 
bigfatjonny said:
Slightly off piste...

One problem that holds back specialist economy / tall economy is the few specialist slots.
In Civ4 there was Caste System that allowed unlimited specialists (with no buildings). Particularly now there are no specialists slots on the early buildings eg Library.

Would it be possible for a policy to increase the amount to specialists given by a particular building? Ie A Piety policy that doubles the culture specialists from Temples etc? A rationalist policy that increases the slots given by universities & other buildings.
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TBC has a lot od psecialist slots - specifically the library. What version are you using?
 
In particular, there's 1 of each type of specialist available in the ancient/classical era:

:c5production: Watermill
:c5gold: Lighthouse
:c5science: Library
:c5culture: Temple

There's also 2 specialist slots on most national wonders. It's not possible to increase a building's specialist slots mid-game with our current tools (neither xml nor manually coding in lua).
 
I played a game with v7.0 and the Aztecs, aiming for a science victory. This was after Thal mentioned that they're the real population monsters, and my recent sense that the tradition and Liberty trees are extremely powerful and ripe for the picking. I focused on pop, taking every SP that raised it, but started with the GA that supercharged my SP rate. (I also built the GL and took Civil Service - a first for me.) I built 4 cities, which wound up at sizes 28, 23, 21 and 19 by t253. That's when I launched, beating my Babylonian record pace by 2 turns.

The Aztecs nipping my best Babs game? It was a real eye-opener. I was on a continent with the Ottomans, a good mix of CS, a silver monopoly, one marble, and very balanced city sites. I had no wars, although I did have to build up my defenses twice quickly when the Ottomans threatened. Still, I wonder if the SPs now come too fast and too powerfully.
 
I've rearranged the Honor tree. I've found I typically want the garrison and upgrade bonuses sooner, while spoils of war and discipline are more useful in midgame. Spoils is also significantly more powerful than the upgrade effect now, so it makes sense to have spoils on the highest tier.
 
Second game and again, b4 i build my 1st battleship i had ALL SP unlocked.
If i was to enable cultural victory, the game would always end half way.

Dunno about ur early tweaks on culture or hows vanilla looks now, but later on ( when u get museums etc. ) SP's cost should raise a lot.

I always care about my culture, try to build at least 1 wonder in each city and gogo freedom tree, but still... With spoils of war, the SP's started to pop up every turn when i went to war ( 3 units, see other post ;p ). Im so glad i checked the "save policy" as i had nothing more to select from ( bside autocracy or w.e its called ) . Both warlike ( spoils of war ) and peacefull player ( freedom ) can get SP's now easly. To easy. If u combine this two the above happens.

Also, in each my game i end up with 500 k stocked money.
2000 gold per turn ? Commerce tree and 2 gold villige/4 fishings and other things are to blame maybe. Add the fact that i need max 5 units ( rest garrisoned and free of supply ) to defend or/and conquer whole world ( bside navy that i always mass for fun ) means that unit supply is minimal. True that Civ5 had gold problems at 1st, but now its the other way around. Dunno how other players are playing, but im sure that im not so good ( since i dont rly try tbh ) to have such skyrocking effects each game >_>
 
Mortal D said:
Second game and again, b4 i build my 1st battleship i had ALL SP unlocked.
If i was to enable cultural victory, the game would always end half way.

Dunno about ur early tweaks on culture or hows vanilla looks now, but later on ( when u get museums etc. ) SP's cost should raise a lot.

I always care about my culture, try to build at least 1 wonder in each city and gogo freedom tree, but still... With spoils of war, the SP's started to pop up every turn when i went to war ( 3 units, see other post ;p ). Im so glad i checked the "save policy" as i had nothing more to select from ( bside autocracy or w.e its called ) . Both warlike ( spoils of war ) and peacefull player ( freedom ) can get SP's now easly. To easy. If u combine this two the above happens.

Also, in each my game i end up with 500 k stocked money.
2000 gold per turn ? Commerce tree and 2 gold villige/4 fishings and other things are to blame maybe. Add the fact that i need max 5 units ( rest garrisoned and free of supply ) to defend or/and conquer whole world ( bside navy that i always mass for fun ) means that unit supply is minimal. True that Civ5 had gold problems at 1st, but now its the other way around. Dunno how other players are playing, but im sure that im not so good ( since i dont rly try tbh ) to have such skyrocking effects each game >_>
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Wow. It sounds like Thal needs to create a new level for you to play on!

Conquering the world may explain it, but I can't imagine having that much gold - I've never seen the AI have more that 70K or so, and I've never broken 7K playing small empire.

I also have no idea how you could build at least one Wonder in each city on the higher levels, given that the AI tends to beat me to most.

Combining the culture of Honor with that of Freedom sounds like an explosive blend, from your description. Yeah, I can see how you may wind up having to choose policies that would force you to negate one of the ones you want.
 
The one b4 Diety.

I dont play Diety as i dont see a reason to give AI even more creazy adventages.
It wont make it smarter.

Marathon.

Moded science to be 75 % slower generaly and even even slower by era.

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Just 120 k. I used 150 k to ally important City states b4 i declared war with everyone.
100 k on just 1 city state and only one with furs. Ai spamed it with Diplo units and i needed 3 k influence for ALLY lol isseu for Gezbo to fix i guess.

Max was 360 k or something, then i just started to spam buy units and gift them to City states to see them conquer the island right to my main land.
Was funny as hell :D

Never had 500 and "just" 360 k. But w.e if i over did it a bit this time lol

The income was higher then what u see and with no golden age. But i declared war on all the AI's that was paying me for peace ;p
 
I would not recommend altering tech costs so significantly if you want a balanced, challenging game. Reducing tech to 25% of Marathon's speed focuses the game on gold, production, and combat, and since the combat AI is weak, it makes the game much too easy.

It's also a good idea to match world size to game speed. Large maps are good for epic speed, and huge maps for marathon. :)
 
Ofc it focus on units ( all 5 of them ROFL ) . I take the world size point, but as for tech i absolutely refuse to deal with the scenario when the army i send to frontline become absolute b4 they can get there >_>

Also check the year and my tech lvl. I again refuse to finish my space ship in 1800 ad ...

And thats with already super slow reserch.
 
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