[Poll] (no Discussion please) Civ5 enforces Steam - Will you buy it?

Buy or not?


  • Total voters
    499
  • Poll closed .
Ultimately, we're the ones who are going to decide whether Civ's future is nasty DRM or not. The only way to do that is to make this game flop due to the DRM. I'm willing to sacrifice Civ V for Civ VI being better.

Do you even know what sort of DRM Steam is? For a game bought in retail, it's a one-time internet activation as you install it. After that you're free to use it without being connected to the internet.
 
I know exactly what it is. It's ok for MP games where Steam's functionality has some use.

For a SP game like Civ, it adds no value. Everything Steam does that is non-game, I got something else that does it better. I don't need Valve handholding me like a console gamer. (no offense to console gamers- I own one myself- but only for fighting games)

Thankfully, there are games such as Paradox's excellent library of titles and Stardock's titles that do understand this, so the money that I was going to spend on Civ 5, will be spent on Vicky II instead (already pre-ordered EWOM).

Civ 5 will be bought when it's $20 or less. Steam reduces the price I'm willing to pay for it.
And the first thing I'll try to do after buying it is figure out a way to make it not run on Steam.
 
I know exactly what it is. It's ok for MP games where Steam's functionality has some use.

For a SP game like Civ, it adds no value. Everything Steam does that is non-game, I got something else that does it better. I don't need Valve handholding me like a console gamer. (no offense to console gamers- I own one myself- but only for fighting games)

Thankfully, there are games such as Paradox's excellent library of titles and Stardock's titles that do understand this, so the money that I was going to spend on Civ 5, will be spent on Vicky II instead (already pre-ordered EWOM).

Civ 5 will be bought when it's $20 or less. Steam reduces the price I'm willing to pay for it.
And the first thing I'll try to do after buying it is figure out a way to make it not run on Steam.

Ah, I see what you're saying.
 
There's a lot of rational dislike of Steam (or more correctly dislike of being forced to use Steam) and a lot of irrational dislike of Steam. That's just human nature when you think about. Compare it with the irrational and rational like/dislike of operating systems, especially Mac vs. Windows. The more you ignore or discount the views of those who have rational reasons to dislike Steam, the more resistance you will face. The easy path is just to show how ignorant the irrational haters of Steam are. Think about it a bit. I will too. ;)

The concept of "being forced to use Steam" in this context is irrational in itself.

Steam is being used as the fundamental basis for all the online content, data distribution, multiplayer and purchase verification.

People are acting like it's just this DD service that Firaxis has bound themselves to for no good reason, but it's nothing like that. It's not about DRM, it's not about DD, these are just a couple in a long list of features that the game is using from the steamworks platform.

Complaining about being "forced" to use Steam in this context is like complaining about being "forced" to use directx.

You can disable every single feature of Steam except for the one time validation when you first install. Every single feature so you don't even notice it's there.

I'm not picking on only the irrational arguments against the steam integration, I'm calling the whole thing irrational because it is.
 
Civ 5 will be bought when it's $20 or less. Steam reduces the price I'm willing to pay for it.
And the first thing I'll try to do after buying it is figure out a way to make it not run on Steam.

Hear, hear.

This is something several people don't seem to grasp. How this whole thing basically works is that when you have a product people have an idea of how much they are willing to pay for that product. If you add something to it, depending on what it is, it either increases or decreases the value people feel they are getting and want to pay for it. DRM is a prime example of a 'feature' that reduces the value of the product for the consumer, so he's not willing to pay as much for a product with DRM than he might've paid for one without it. Thanks to the basic nature of DRM, it will always inconvenience you, though the level varies from mild to unacceptable.

Now, when it comes to Steam, some people value some of the things it has, while other people, often those who have used computers for 15+ years, have better than average knowledge about how they work, and like to do things themselves to know they're being done properly, see it as useless at best. For some it means they're going to buy from Steam in any case, for others it means they're not getting anything from there and will avoid anything that requires it.

Back to the values. Basically, when I buy a physical copy that (too bad this is rarely the case anymore, but let's take a look at a good example) doesn't require any 3rd party clients, has no need for online activation and, on the whole, works out of the box I'm willing to pay full price for it. Let's call that 50€. Add any level of DRM and the value I'm willing to buy drops. I probably wouldn't buy any of the new Ubisoft titles even if I got them for 5€, though if any of them was of specific interest for me I just might make an exception. But probably wouldn't.

Digital distribution? Well, obviously I'm not getting a handy media that looks nice on the shelf and all, but somebody's got to save the world... so digital distribution itself doesn't reduce the amount of money I'm willing to pay drastically. Let's say that (again, in an optimal case. Think GoG, except with modern titles) we have a shop that doesn't require a client program at all. You make a purchase and you can download a DRM-free install file you're free to do whatever you want with and it installs normally like any other file. Yeah, I'll pay 40€ for that. I need to use a client to download the install file? Well, as long as I can still access the file outside the client and do what I like with it it's no big problem. I might actually still be willing to pay 40€ for a new title. What, you're telling me I need the client to install the file? That's a bit worse. What happens to my games library when (given enough time there's no if, only when, and some of us don't just abandon our games after the first three weeks) the company goes bust, decides to change their business model or maybe someone cracks their database or my account and starts screwing up? Not to mention me not being able to easily use the file. Let's call it 25-30€.

And then someone suggests that you shouldn't even be able to run the games outside the client. Major, major inconvenience. With terms like those I'd be willing to pay 5€ for a new major title.

It has nothing to do with a publisher's right to decide how they sell their product. Sure, yes, they have every right to decide how to sell it. But every consumer also has every right to disagree with those decisions and decide not to buy a product if price and value don't meet when their personal preferences are applied.
 
The concept of "being forced to use Steam" in this context is irrational in itself.

Steam is being used as the fundamental basis for all the online content, data distribution, multiplayer and purchase verification.

People are acting like it's just this DD service that Firaxis has bound themselves to for no good reason, but it's nothing like that. It's not about DRM, it's not about DD, these are just a couple in a long list of features that the game is using from the steamworks platform.

Complaining about being "forced" to use Steam in this context is like complaining about being "forced" to use directx.

You can disable every single feature of Steam except for the one time validation when you first install. Every single feature so you don't even notice it's there.

I'm not picking on only the irrational arguments against the steam integration, I'm calling the whole thing irrational because it is.

Steam vs. DirectX comparison really doesn't work. There's a rational reason for a game requiring DirectX, and the game would be seriously handicapped if it didn't. The same isn't true for Steam.
 
Steam vs. DirectX comparison really doesn't work. There's a rational reason for a game requiring DirectX, and the game would be seriously handicapped if it didn't. The same isn't true for Steam.

If they didn't use DirectX they would have to develop their own graphical libraries and graphics manipulation code.

If they didn't use Steam they would have to develop their own netcode, server infrastructure, content distribution network, community features, auto updates and DRM.

The scale of work is different, granted, but the concept is the same. People are acting like it is some fringe component intentionally added at the last minute. They are simply wrong - it's fundamental.
 
If they link Civ V to Steam, then they will get the same punishment Sega earned for its Total War series: I will play it if it is good, but I won't pay anymore for it.

I can't stand those companies that force people to install a 3rd party crapware for their softwares to work, especially when this crapware means one day you may not be able to use the games you paid for. [pissed]
 
If they link Civ V to Steam, then they will get the same punishment Sega earned for its Total War series: I will play it if it is good, but I won't pay anymore for it.

I can't stand those companies that force people to install a 3rd party crapware for their softwares to work, especially when this crapware means one day you may not be able to use the games you paid for. [pissed]

Let us know when you've caught up with the thread.
 
If they didn't use DirectX they would have to develop their own graphical libraries and graphics manipulation code.

If they didn't use Steam they would have to develop their own netcode, server infrastructure, content distribution network, community features, auto updates and DRM.

The scale of work is different, granted, but the concept is the same. People are acting like it is some fringe component intentionally added at the last minute. They are simply wrong - it's fundamental.

Concept is the same?
DirectX does not have the ability to kick me out of my games.
DirectX does not requiere Internet (yeah, even one time; don't count downloading).
For DirectX i do not need an account.
With installing DirectX i do not agree in a contract.
DirectX will not need to collect data about me.



And all the people do not see the account-mania.
Ah, i need an account at ubisoft. Rockstar social club. Battle.net. Games for windows live.
My friends want me at facebook. Or at myspace. at twitter. My boss wants to contact me on xing.
I hope you know, that all the last things just get money for collecting data. Guess about the first row.
 
Concept is the same?
DirectX does not have the ability to kick me out of my games.
DirectX does not requiere Internet (yeah, even one time; don't count downloading).
For DirectX i do not need an account.
With installing DirectX i do not agree in a contract.
DirectX will not need to collect data about me.

You don't really understand what the word "concept" means really do you?

If Firaxis wrote their own multiplayer/DRM/contact list/content distribution/chat/autoupdate then it WOULD have the ability to kick you from the game, require the internet, need an account, have a TOS and collect optional data about your usage that people like you are too busy spazing out about to just disable and shut up.

Re-read my post to understand the what the world "concept" means in that context.
 
If Firaxis wrote their own multiplayer/DRM/contact list/content distribution/chat/autoupdate then it WOULD have the ability to kick you from the game, require the internet, need an account, have a TOS and collect optional data about your usage that people like you are too busy spazing out about to just disable and shut up.

Let me look at Civ4, what of this has been in...oh, only the DRM, and nothing else.
 
Let me look at Civ4, what of this has been in...oh, only the DRM, and nothing else.

So wait, they should dump a whole bunch of features just for you? That they should keep using crappy CD-in-drive DRM despite the rest of the gaming world moving on? Because you say so?
 
So wait, they should dump a whole bunch of features just for you? That they should keep using crappy CD-in-drive DRM despite the rest of the gaming world moving on? Because you say so?

They should not force me to sign a contract with a third party for these features.

...what, no, not only this, they should not force me to sign a contract with a third party to use features, which don't have anything to do with that.



And i never understood, where's the problem to put a DVD, which has data, which are needed for the game, into the DVD ROM drive.
 
If they link Civ V to Steam, then they will get the same punishment Sega earned for its Total War series: I will play it if it is good, but I won't pay anymore for it.

I can't stand those companies that force people to install a 3rd party crapware for their softwares to work, especially when this crapware means one day you may not be able to use the games you paid for. [pissed]

It was easier to boycott Total War games- as they were crap.

Civ V might actually be good.

Seriously, don't pirate the game- if you're going to boycott, man up, don't buy it, and use the money to support a title that doesn't use an invasive scheme. I've recommended Elemental and Victoria II as good replacement goods.

Or do what I plan to do- and cap what I'm willing to pay at $20. I don't trust Steam with any game over that amount. The only time I've paid over that for a Steam game, is when I knew I could take the game off of Steam (the Mount and Blade games allow that- Mount and Blade Warband is a pretty fun romp.)

(Vicky II will be avaliable on Steam, but you can get it other places as well. This is what I want.)

I'm not anti-Steam. I am anti-Steam DRM, though not to the point of boycott like I am Ubi DRM.
I am very anti Steam-only games.
 
Will never buy it with Steam. I had one game (Half-Life2)with it on my old computer, forced me to be logged onto Steam every time I started my computer, even if I was not playing the game. Wasted computer memory when I was trying to run other programs. Took forever to get that crap off my old computer, and I believe it contributed to my hard drive problems. Never again. I will just continue to play Civ4, don't like the non stacking of units anyway.

If you were unable to find "Don't run on computer startup" or "save my login" in the Steam options menu, or even just uninstall a program correctly, I'm not inclined to believe that you know what broke your hard drive.
 
So wait, they should dump a whole bunch of features just for you? That they should keep using crappy CD-in-drive DRM despite the rest of the gaming world moving on? Because you say so?

Nothing is wrong with DD, Gamersgate was the best thing that happened to me for pc gaming. I can get the games I want, get them cheap and they are always there. And since they got rid of their crappy program and went straight to direct downloads it has worked a treat.
 
The concept of "being forced to use Steam" in this context is irrational in itself.

Steam is being used as the fundamental basis for all the online content, data distribution, multiplayer and purchase verification.

People are acting like it's just this DD service that Firaxis has bound themselves to for no good reason, but it's nothing like that. It's not about DRM, it's not about DD, these are just a couple in a long list of features that the game is using from the steamworks platform.

Complaining about being "forced" to use Steam in this context is like complaining about being "forced" to use directx.

You can disable every single feature of Steam except for the one time validation when you first install. Every single feature so you don't even notice it's there.

I'm not picking on only the irrational arguments against the steam integration, I'm calling the whole thing irrational because it is.

This has got to be the first Straw Man argument someone has actually said. To spell it out for you when you said

"Steam is being used as the fundamental basis for all the online content, data distribution, multiplayer and purchase verification." I nearly ROFLMAO'd ...

Precicely because it is Steam's pursuit of making Computer Gaming a unified and closed system which brings all the irrationality out of the woodwork. Making Computer Gaming a closed system (everything through Steam-or any other single provider) simply invalidates, for most people, all of the extra headaches that come with PC gaming.

The very fact that Steam is openly pursuing a Closed System, and that you subconsciously realize this, say it, and is perfectly okay with it, tells me that you see the PC as just another console. If the PC was just another console then I would gladly use the OTHER consoles primarily, that do their job a whole lot better on average.

It is the freedom and diversity of Computer gaming that makes system far more than just a simplified console. As others have stated, many free and independent programs can do the non-game aspects of Steam just as well or better than Steam does.

While I respect Valve from a game development standpoint, their publishing and business practices as a whole leave a bad taste in my mouth. Computer gaming is not meant to be simplified and lorded over under one authoritarian government (Steam). Computer gaming is meant to have a variety of various independent companies vying for the interest of the Consumer with better functionality.

Its simple free market vs closed market. For making the PC into a closed system makes it a closed market ... which means that instead of liking companies X, Y, and Z, you either like the PC or you don't like it .... just like you like the X-box or don't like it, because the publishing, marketing, and virtual community is all the same, and thus geared towards largely the same kind of player. The console player*.

I like consoles a lot, but computers are meant to be different. Draconian systems for Console games ported to the computer are reasonable, while doing the same on PC only games is a serious breach of the spirit of Computer gaming as a whole.
 
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