(poll) What civs would you like to see in a hypothetical third expansion?

What 8 civs would you like in a third expansion?

  • Babylon

    Votes: 128 55.9%
  • Portugal

    Votes: 142 62.0%
  • Maya

    Votes: 162 70.7%
  • Byzantium

    Votes: 122 53.3%
  • Ethiopia

    Votes: 118 51.5%
  • Italy

    Votes: 65 28.4%
  • Vietnam

    Votes: 96 41.9%
  • Morocco/Moors

    Votes: 70 30.6%
  • Assyria

    Votes: 55 24.0%
  • Austria

    Votes: 41 17.9%
  • Burma

    Votes: 18 7.9%
  • Chola/Tamil

    Votes: 23 10.0%
  • Timurids

    Votes: 20 8.7%
  • Armenia

    Votes: 36 15.7%
  • Afghanistan

    Votes: 15 6.6%
  • Hittites

    Votes: 50 21.8%
  • Benin

    Votes: 18 7.9%
  • Ashanti

    Votes: 24 10.5%
  • Swahilli

    Votes: 30 13.1%
  • Zimbabwe

    Votes: 14 6.1%
  • Bulgaria

    Votes: 26 11.4%
  • Bohemia

    Votes: 15 6.6%
  • Ireland

    Votes: 34 14.8%
  • Romania

    Votes: 31 13.5%
  • Goths

    Votes: 40 17.5%
  • Gran Colombia

    Votes: 44 19.2%
  • Mughals

    Votes: 28 12.2%
  • Olmec, Toltec, Zapotec etc

    Votes: 21 9.2%
  • Navajo

    Votes: 66 28.8%
  • Native Americans - other than Navajo

    Votes: 76 33.2%

  • Total voters
    229
Unfortunately true. :(


I expect we'll continue to see Civ mascot Moteuczoma lead the Aztec in the base game. That being said, I don't really think the Maya are that much less recognizable than the Aztec in 2019, even if they probably were in 1990.


Well, I'd never complain about the Aztec again. :mischief:

I'd be quite happy with Mexico rather than the Aztecs. Theres certainly some big personalities in Mexican history. That said I'd rather have the Maya than either.
 
I'd be quite happy with Mexico rather than the Aztecs. Theres certainly some big personalities in Mexican history. That said I'd rather have the Maya than either.
Eh, if we're going to have someone new from the region I'd rather have the Mixtec than yet another post-colonial nation-state. If I have to choose between Mexico or Mexica, I'll accept the eternal reign of Montezuma the Mascot. :p
 
Oh, yeah, I don't really want Mexico, I'm just saying what I expect to happen.
I'm also the guy who everybody got mad at when I said that I don't expect the Maya this game because the Aztecs already have a ball court unique building, though. Again, that's not what I want to happen, but it's what I'm expecting.
 
The more I look at Mexico, the more I think it will probably happen in VI, but only to sell DLC.

For one, it's a very weird choice. One that would undoubtedly sell well, one that certainly could stand on its own merits mechanically and historically, but one that everyone would cock their heads at because a) we already have the Aztecs and b) their unique is probably something gimmicky like a golf course or hockey rink.

For two, the devs so far have been spreading civs out pretty consistently geographically across expacks. This especially holds true for the Americas, where we have had one "North American" civ per expect (Cree, Canada) and one "South/Latin America" civ (Mapuche, Inca). I suspect they will continue this trend, and so we are extremely likely to get the Maya and a North American tribe for expack 3. They will not release Mexico alongside the Maya, and they will likely not release it before the Maya either.

And even if we miraculously get a fourth expack with the leftover goodies (which, I assert, if the TSL geographic spacing rule holds true, the devs have precisely enough gaps in the map to add another eight civs past expack 3, and not much more), which as I think this I could easily believe, given that I think that VI will have a larger roster than only 50 civs, Mexico would still be competing with the highly requested Caribbean civ for the same slot.

Ergo, since I think that three expacks are happening, four are possible, but five would be a reach on multiple fronts, I do not see Mexico or any colonial Spanish civ making an expansion pack. The only colonial Spanish civ that doesn't compete with anyone geographically is (Gran) Colombia, and frankly it was such a short-lived achievement that I'm not counting on it getting in ahead of Mexico or even Argentina. Although I would be ... fine ... with a Colombia inclusion.

HOWEVER, I am absolutely of the opinion that regardless of whether we get three or even four expacks, that there will be enough civs left over for the devs to release in small DLC packs. There are especially a few civs that I think are either superfluous or controversial that--despite likely selling well--they will only be attempted in smaller DLC. These include:

* Mexico - kind of obviated geographically but an immensely popular culture.
* Siam - I think Burma and Vietnam are going to take substantial priority here, similarly to how Maya/Caribbean will shut Mexico out in every expack. But that's not to say that it won't eventually happen if development goes on long enough.
* Babylon/Assyria. If somehow the devs add either of these, I do not see it being in an expack. They don't have much unique design space left in the VI paradigm, and so I think if either were developed Firaxis would emphasize they they are an optional addition that they never really wanted to include.
* Tibet - The closer this is to being released as a solo civ, the more likely Firaxis would do it and just refrain from releasing that content in China. One of the great things about modular game expansions is the flexibility to do something like this. (could equally apply to Ukraine, but I still think signs are pointing toward Kievan Rus' being blobbed into Russia).
* Romani - as politically complicated as Tibet I imagine. They have so much potential as a civ but there is just so much bad blood surrounding them that--in the unlikely chance they happened at all--I think they would be one of the last civs added to any game.
* Bohemia/Austria/Switzerland - a lot of German-adjacent civs. Difficult to choose just one between them to develop, and even harder when there are obvious gaps in the European map that can be filled with more flavorful options (Ireland, Denmark, Bulgaria/Romania, Italy). Although we get two/three European civs each expack, I do not see these rising to the top of the priority list. They are all win-more ideas, and in that vein are more like a victory lap ala Mexico or Siam or Babylon/Assyria.
* Ethiopia - if there's no fourth expack, Ethiopia is probably still going to happen. I think it's one of the few "staple" civs left that would be a major selling point of any expack/DLC pack.
* Hawaii - There's a small chance it could appear in expack four, but it's literally the vacation civ. If any civ screams "we're definitely done now and going to take a break," it's Hawaii. And yes, Hawaii stands about the same chance as Denmark and Ireland at this point, given that we have now de-blobbed Vikings, Celts, and Polynesians.

I will say that if we get the right spread of eight-to-sixteen civs, I wouldn't mind if none of these appeared in VI. But I do recognize that there is money to be made and several of these would sell very well in any capacity. So I wholly anticipate Firaxis at least attempting some further small DLC packs after they exhaust their big expack ideas. And, case in point, because Mexico exists and it will probably not be in an expack, I think it may be the prime candidate for small DLC content at this point.
 
I don't really think the Maya are that much less recognizable than the Aztec in 2019, even if they probably were in 1990.
Now that I think about it, the Maya might be even more recognizable than the Aztecs these days, with all of the 2012 and long count talk not that long ago.
 
I'm also the guy who everybody got mad at when I said that I don't expect the Maya this game because the Aztecs already have a ball court unique building, though. Again, that's not what I want to happen, but it's what I'm expecting.
I'm also concerned about not seeing the Maya, not because of the Tlachtli (the ballgame was played throughout Mesoamerica and synergizes really well with the Aztec's abilities) but because the devs have gone really far out of their way to represent the Maya without making them a civ. :(
 
I'm also concerned about not seeing the Maya, not because of the Tlachtli (the ballgame was played throughout Mesoamerica and synergizes really well with the Aztec's abilities) but because the devs have gone really far out of their way to represent the Maya without making them a civ. :(

I am choosing to believe that, like Oman/Swahili (and I guess Italy), the representation is foreshadowing rather than consolation.

I'm not too concerned about city state representation at the moment, because there are not many potential civs left that don't have a city state at this point.

Copenhagen, Helsinki, Vienna, Prague aren't exactly European frontrunners, at least no moreso than Armagh, Preslav, Geneva, and Bologna.

Assyria is the only Middle Eastern civ that doesn't have a city-state yet, and it probably isn't happening with Sumeria.

Ethiopia, Hausa, and Yoruba don't have city-states, but I don't believe them to be any more or less likely than Morocco or Swahili.

Buenos Aires and Mexico City versus Bogota, similar equivalence.

Really, the only region that is completely up in the air is Asia, given that we basically only have Kabul disconfirming Afghanistan. Absolutely no representation of the Timurids/Mughals, Burma, Tibet, or Vietnam.

But on the whole there are just too many strong options already represented as city states that I don't think the city states have much bearing on likelihood.

I would also like to insist that after getting Rapa Nui, if we don't eventually get a Hawaii civ and a Tonga CS I will riot.
 
I'm not too concerned about city state representation at the moment, because there are not many potential civs left that don't have a city state at this point.
I'm not so sanguine, but that's definitely a possibility. I wouldn't be so concerned if it were just Palenque and Chichen Itza, but the addition of Ik-Kel makes the Maya the most represented civilization to not actually be in the game. :p
 
I'm not so sanguine, but that's definitely a possibility. I wouldn't be so concerned if it were just Palenque and Chichen Itza, but the addition of Ik-Kel makes the Maya the most represented civilization to not actually be in the game. :p

If we do get an XP3, or even more DLC, the Maya’s inclusion seems like a certainty.

We’ve never been at this point in a Civ game with so many popular “veteran” civs as yet unrepresented.
 
I can understand people believing there is too many British divs already but Wales unique unit :longbowman bonuses to coal mining
 
I think future games/expansions will focus on leaders rather than just civs

i.e. Russia - Peter, Catherine,Lenin,Stalin
 
I'm sure they can fill base civ7 with enough staples for people to recognize for Maya to be in the base game.
That being said, I'm also expecting the Aztecs to sit on the bench and be replaced by Mexico in the first expansion.

Pff... I would be really disappointed if that happens.

Aztecs might be my favourite civ in Civ VI. That being said, Maya's are the civ i definitely want most now, so i'm really hoping for the third expansion, just because i definitely want the Maya's.

And Firaxis better make them OP as ****, to compensate for their neglection.
 
I can understand people believing there is too many British divs already but Wales unique unit :longbowman bonuses to coal mining
I would have preferred Wales to Scotland and Ireland to Wales, but as things stand now...

I think future games/expansions will focus on leaders rather than just civs

i.e. Russia - Peter, Catherine,Lenin,Stalin
Considering how underutilized multiple leaders have been, I don't think we'll see the feature return in Civ7 personally.
 
I think future games/expansions will focus on leaders rather than just civs

e.g. Russia - Peter, Catherine,Lenin,Stalin
I sure hope not. Alternate leaders are much less interesting than actual new civilizations, and this entire subforum shows that they're not going to run out of possibilities anytime soon.
Also, using i.e. when it should be e.g. is a bit of a pet peeve of mine, so I fixed that.
 
I think the thing we’re all a little nervous about is at what point is Firaxis/2k going to give up on Civ6. Every previous game was done at this point.

But, as Ed stated, Civ6 feels like it’s just reaching its prime. So I’m hopeful they’ve decided they can afford to release more content.

I just hope 2K appreciates that if Firaxis were permitted to release more content for this game, we would buy it!
 
Considering how underutilized multiple leaders have been, I don't think we'll see the feature return in Civ7 personally.

To the contrary, I think they won't be underutilized at all. I think the entire concept was intended to sell late-cycle DLC and expansions. I think, all told, we will likely have at least one alternate leader for Russia, Germany, Arabia, China, Egypt, and probably Rome. I think it entirely possible that China, India, France, and maybe Arabia could end up with three leaders when all is told, given that they have enough major polities that could support the idea (Yuan/Wu and Qing, Chola, Carolingian, Umayyad and Saudi).

Keep in mind that the devs have had three years plus for vetting and designing leaders, finding and recording voice actors, etc. The animation itself might take some time, but they could conceivably have dozens of potential leaders recorded on the cheap and waiting for the greenlight.

As for Civ VII, I couldn't begin to predict if they would use alternate leaders. I personally support the idea because it is an elegant way of including highly requested polities while maintaining high diversity of aesthetic and playstyles among the core roster. But it really depends on what VII's "vision" is, and it is conceivable that they could adopt a different model of representation. Highly unlikely, given that this "cultural" paradigm has vastly opened up the design space, but still possible.

I sure hope not. Alternate leaders are much less interesting than actual new civilizations, and this entire subforum shows that they're not going to run out of possibilities anytime soon.
Also, using i.e. when it should be e.g. is a bit of a pet peeve of mine, so I fixed that.

I have been quite happy with the three alternate leaders we have so far. And although I think that the devs could comfortably add another 20-ish civs, I would be legitimately surprised if we got, in addition to Morocco, Ethiopia, Denmark, and Maya: Ireland, Italy, Bulgaria/Romani, Armenia, Swahili, Gurkani, Burma, Vietnam, Noongar, Hawaii, Navajo, Inuit, Taino, and Mexico/Colombia, etc. etc. etc. My estimates point toward either one more expack with four returning civs plus some small DLC packs, or two more expacks with three returning civs each. That is a lot of brand new content, and while the devs are clearly enjoying researching new civs, they can only do so much. I would be floored and forever in abject adoration and respect if we somehow got more than four new Asian/African/Austronesian civs.

So at some point I expect the devs to decide enough civs are enough, at which point that is what the alternate leader system exists for. To give them additional development options after the bulk of the development is over. If they want to throw out a couple leaders here and there for some extra cash, the devs have left themselves that option.

I think the thing we’re all a little nervous about is at what point is Firaxis/2k going to give up on Civ6. Every previous game was done at this point.

But, as Ed stated, Civ6 feels like it’s just reaching its prime. So I’m hopeful they’ve decided they can afford to release more content.

I just hope 2K appreciates that if Firaxis were permitted to release more content for this game, we would buy it!

I think the playerbase is still growing. And I think Firaxis will think twice before jumping ship yet again and leaving the playerbase fractured between V and VI and waiting another three years for VII to get good.

Personally, I love VI and its pluripotentiality. Although I expect the devs to come up short of truly filling out the map, I still retain hope that there will be another 16+ civs in the making. The platform is so robust that it would seem like such a waste to end it at 50 civs and 4 alt leaders. And frankly at this point I will pay full price for everything just to make it worth the devs while, because as far as I am concerned they are entitled to stable employment working on this thing for as long as they want. They have more than earned it.
 
To the contrary, I think they won't be underutilized at all. I think the entire concept was intended to sell late-cycle DLC and expansions. I think, all told, we will likely have at least one alternate leader for Russia, Germany, Arabia, China, Egypt, and probably Rome. I think it entirely possible that China, India, France, and maybe Arabia could end up with three leaders when all is told, given that they have enough major polities that could support the idea (Yuan/Wu and Qing, Chola, Carolingian, Umayyad and Saudi).

Keep in mind that the devs have had three years plus for vetting and designing leaders, finding and recording voice actors, etc. The animation itself might take some time, but they could conceivably have dozens of potential leaders recorded on the cheap and waiting for the greenlight.

As for Civ VII, I couldn't begin to predict if they would use alternate leaders. I personally support the idea because it is an elegant way of including highly requested polities while maintaining high diversity of aesthetic and playstyles among the core roster. But it really depends on what VII's "vision" is, and it is conceivable that they could adopt a different model of representation. Highly unlikely, given that this "cultural" paradigm has vastly opened up the design space, but still possible.



I have been quite happy with the three alternate leaders we have so far. And although I think that the devs could comfortably add another 20-ish civs, I would be legitimately surprised if we got, in addition to Morocco, Ethiopia, Denmark, and Maya: Ireland, Italy, Bulgaria/Romani, Armenia, Swahili, Gurkani, Burma, Vietnam, Noongar, Hawaii, Navajo, Inuit, Taino, and Mexico/Colombia, etc. etc. etc. My estimates point toward either one more expack with four returning civs plus some small DLC packs, or two more expacks with three returning civs each. That is a lot of brand new content, and while the devs are clearly enjoying researching new civs, they can only do so much. I would be floored and forever in abject adoration and respect if we somehow got more than four new Asian/African/Austronesian civs.

So at some point I expect the devs to decide enough civs are enough, at which point that is what the alternate leader system exists for. To give them additional development options after the bulk of the development is over. If they want to throw out a couple leaders here and there for some extra cash, the devs have left themselves that option.



I think the playerbase is still growing. And I think Firaxis will think twice before jumping ship yet again and leaving the playerbase fractured between V and VI and waiting another three years for VII to get good.

Personally, I love VI and its pluripotentiality. Although I expect the devs to come up short of truly filling out the map, I still retain hope that there will be another 16+ civs in the making. The platform is so robust that it would seem like such a waste to end it at 50 civs and 4 alt leaders. And frankly at this point I will pay full price for everything just to make it worth the devs while, because as far as I am concerned they are entitled to stable employment working on this thing for as long as they want. They have more than earned it.
I agree with everything you've said here, especially the last two paragraphs (though I don't think we'll end up with civs with three alternate leaders). I'm not familiar with the ins and outs of game development, but I think it would be a silly move for them to make a civ 7 when they've built a good system in 6 and have not only many cool new opportunities for civs/leaders, but also interest from the playerbase in having new civs/leaders, too. Yeah, there are still people who much prefer to play Civ V over VI, but I can't see the devs making a VII quickly with the intent to tie in both playerbases together. I think it would make way more sense for them to streamline VI until just about everyone is as happy with it as possible, which entails fixing up existing problems and possibly adding new civs/leaders as non-expansion DLC like they did before Rise and Fall.

In the end, I truly hope that we still have many more civs being added later on in Civ 6's lifespan, and I'm optimistic that this wish will come true.
 
I can’t put my finger on it, but something feels different about Civ6 at this stage in the process.

Civ3, Civ4, and Civ5 all felt “done” after two expansions.

Civ6 had probably what was the most complete vanilla Civ game to date, yet it still feels incomplete.

Maybe it’s the missing classic civs, or maybe it’s just that this game has a higher threshold for the amount of features it can handle.

Something feels different. As if we have only begun to play...
 
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