Yeah I used to think that was amazingly powerful. But then I realized that you can't establish trade routes to the cities until Astronomy anyway, or get resources from them. My first few cities in the new world are normally to get new resources.
Poll: What is the Best Unique Unit?
- Thread starter Tephros
- Start date
Yeah I used to think that was amazingly powerful. But then I realized that you can't establish trade routes to the cities until Astronomy anyway, or get resources from them. My first few cities in the new world are normally to get new resources.
Rusty Edge
Deity
On a Terra map, the New world often has some resources that the Old world doesn't.
The way I play Portugal in that situation is to beeline the optics , upgrade something sitting on my seafood to carracks and send over a couple trebs and some knights . The barbs are probably defending with macemen. When I've grabbed enough cities that I become bogged down I create a colony, so pairs of muskets materialize out of nowhere to defend the cities. Then I move my troops to capture the rest of the cities and turn them over. Gift them the captured workers and anything else they need to hook up the resources. Maybe I'll have to build them a port. Maybe some ships to defend them .Ask them for the resources I need.
By the time that the Dutch or Vikings can interfere, it's all over. It's a stronghold, not a toehold. When corporations come, I spam something appropriate to my colony. Then it's a stranglehold on the new world wealth.
I've had games where I made so much money on trade and corps that I could operate tax free and still be number 1 on the power graph.
I usually play as the Dutch because of their UU. One day, I experimented with WB. I lined up all the UUs. Then, I looked at the Pedia to see how much better the UU was to the standard unit. So when I wasn't satisfied, I deleted them, one by one. I forget the runner up, but I remember that the Dutch UU owned (not to mention the crazy Dike UB). Its ability for an extra unit made it the ideal unit for warfare on another island (my favorite kind).
But I am voting for the praetorian. It looks the coolest IMO.
But I am voting for the praetorian. It looks the coolest IMO.
feralminded
Obsessive Number Cruncher
Since this was my comment I'll defend it. I kind of didn't explain myself well initially. Anyhow on Emperor if you beeline IW you will definitely beat the AI to it long before construction. But most people don't manually tech IW unless they fail to land copper or horses. Typically people tech the worker techs they want and maybe sailing if going for GLH and then go Writing->Aesthetics and trade for backfill ... IW usually being one of the primary techs they need to fill in. In this case by the time I usually tech Aesthetics (which means I can trade for IW) at least one AI usually has construction if not a few.
blitzkrieg1980
Octobrist
Gotcha. Makes sense to get some worker techs online. I would be more inclined to manually go for Ironworking earlier simply because I have praetorians that can defend as well as attack very well.
azzaman333
meh
IF you have iron.
blitzkrieg1980
Octobrist
Yeah, I'm one of those cheesy guys that if I can't at least take over the Iron (IE it's no where near me) then I'll restart and regen map
azzaman333
meh
Which would be one reason why you would rate the praet so much higher than I would.
feralminded
Obsessive Number Cruncher
Yeah iron isn't as common as people might think and if you are going for a hard Praet rush you'll likely have at most 3 cities to find that precious stuff, 2 of which who will have only the inner ring. If you don't have it you just tanked your economy on a myth. At least the horse units only require AH which is a basic worker tech. Egyptians and Persians aren't all that bummed out if they can't find horses and Carthaginians and Mongols have many millenia of expansion to find them before they much care.
blitzkrieg1980
Octobrist
Here I have to totally disagree with you. The last 6 or so games that I've played as Rome I haven't even had to invade anyone to get iron. It may not have been inside my current borders, but a whipped settler/archer did the trick. Horses are always more rare in my games. Seriously. I've seen less horses than iron.
Azzaman333 you have a good point about why I rate the Praet so much higher. But it's half the reason I choose Rome (when I do)
feralminded
Obsessive Number Cruncher
Yeah horses I think are a little bit more rare but you will tech AH earlier than iron so you can adjust where you drop those settlers. Additionally its not any kind of Gambit to beeline AH, specially if you have visible pigs/sheep/cows. It opens up writing and when I play SE its usually how I get there even if I don't have visible animals (no need for pottery in SE). You will almost always have Iron in your initial 6-10 city Rexx which means if you don't beeline IW for the gambit with Rome you'll still get your Praets ... it just means you might need to wait until Construction to take a capital ... but its not like its going to stop you much. I mean they're still Praets and with the CR line are still going to break many things until longbows and don't hit a hard stop until machinery.
Its kind of a good thing horses are a little rare because Persia/Egypt are OP if they are ubiquitous.
My point is you will not land Iron in your first 3 cities more than 50% of the time and that's the timeframe we're talking about for the serious IW gambit Praet rush (which is scary powerful if you land Iron, we're talking Praets vs Archers on Emp+). I mean if you do land the iron you have won the game ... but its kind of like flipping a coin to see if you win. Feels contrived.
Its kind of a good thing horses are a little rare because Persia/Egypt are OP if they are ubiquitous.
My point is you will not land Iron in your first 3 cities more than 50% of the time and that's the timeframe we're talking about for the serious IW gambit Praet rush (which is scary powerful if you land Iron, we're talking Praets vs Archers on Emp+). I mean if you do land the iron you have won the game ... but its kind of like flipping a coin to see if you win. Feels contrived.
smitsk00
plainlyfullofit
While I understand that Toku has his disadvantages, why are samurai not getting any love here? After building the GW and settling some GG, a Combat 1, Drill 4 and CR 1/ 2 (or shock) Samurai is a scary, scary unit to face.
azzaman333
meh
Because Samurai are good, but War Chariots, Praets, Immortals and Quecha are better.
smitsk00
plainlyfullofit
I can buy the arguement for Praets and Immortals because they have a significant and lasting advantage during their time. However I do not agree that War Chariots and Quecha are better, just simpler and earlier. Plus, they losr their advantage quickly. With planning, a well promoted stack of Samurai can kill anything until machine guns.
King of Town
Adventuring
Cho's are awesome. I pump them with lots of first strikes if I beeline them quick enough, and basically only one of them gets hurt, which then stays behind for city defense until I get an archer or something there. I have good scores with the mongols and romans, but my best dominations are with the chinese.
Hangly Man
Warlord
- Joined
- Apr 29, 2006
- Messages
- 247
Berserkers. Not because they're powerful, but because taking cities from the sea is just so much fun.
My #2 is the Ormo Warrior because of his awesome hairdo.
My #2 is the Ormo Warrior because of his awesome hairdo.
blitzkrieg1980
Octobrist
I was never able to build enough galleys for the Berserkers to really come into a powerful use. I guess on a water heavy map, they really shine through. I always wanted them to do really well because my favorite strategy is parking off of the enemy's coast, blockading their seafood resources, and heading right on in to take the city (usually with galleons/cannons/rifles). It just seemed that by the time I was significantly ready for a water based invasion, Berserkers were already obsolete.
I guess I should leverage my game to lean more heavily on naval strength when playing as Ragnar.
feralminded
Obsessive Number Cruncher
You can kill an enemy capital with Quechas by turn 100 ... that right there should speak for itself. Even if you don't rush they handle barb's very well until axes start to show. Even if you have no barb problems they're excellent garrisons for a time. Its a gift that keeps on giving.
War Chariots are a pubic hair shy of being every bit as strong as Immortals against Archers (specially if you promote them right ... up the combat line). They have 5 strength instead of 4 and start with immunity to first strikes which Immortals have to fish up the flanking line for. They are better than immortals against everything else in that time frame which really helps against those couple of spears the AI might build (you're still going to lose some taking him out though). Regardless proper chariot use implies you are disconnecting copper and then running them over.
feralminded
Obsessive Number Cruncher
Well yeah ... it takes A LOT of galleys. You realistically are looking at 2 galleys per city minimum and maybe 3 and ideally you want to attack 3 cities simultaneously or nearly simultaneously if not 4 or 5. This is where the UB comes in to play as your galleys and skirt down the coast extra fast and drop the horde on each city. You basically pack in a CG longbow and a pile of berserkers in each raiding party and go dance. It works so well since the AI (and humans) don't defend their coasts nearly as well as land-border cities. Also the berserkers are just nasty.
azzaman333
meh
War Chariots are as good as Immortals, and come 1 tech earlier. 1 tech earlier means less archers, less defensive bonuses, and less effect from copper.
Quecha are so overpowered that the CFC HoF has had to create a seperate category excluding them to get people to play as civs on the higher difficulties.
The early advantages from these two give so much more grunt behind a Maceman war, that it doesn't matter if you have Samurai or not, you'll still win very easily. Or alternatively, you just research away and crush them with superior units at Curassiers/Rifles/Cavalry/Infantry/Tanks because you've been able to outresearch the AI thanks to the extra land and will get one of those key military units well before the AI has a counter.
