Polling the Forum: Thoughts on Alternate Religious Conversion Systems

[Stalker0]

All,

On Githhub some of the designers are kicking around ideas to simplify and uncomplicate the religious conversion system. This is very preliminary discussions, and certainly no commitments, but they asked to put some of the ideas on the forum just to get initial thoughts.

I am putting the two models under discussion at the moment. Of course these models would require certain civs and beliefs to be adjusted....so saying "that will nerf belief X" is not helpful.....of course those would require adjustment if any of these models went through.

Religious Conversion Updates

At the core of these changes....cities no longer provide religious pressure to its each other per turn at base. Missionaries will be the primary way in which pressure is established....in addition to methods based on these models: Inquisitors work the same as they do today.

Model 1: Cities that are connected by Trade Routes provide religious pressure to each other (as they do now). Spies also generate pressure with beliefs that utilize them.

Model 2: Cities connected by Trade Routes get a big boost of pressure when the TR completes. All per turn sources are removed.


The poll is online, so feel free to post your thoughts.

 

[Cokolwiek]

If it's not broken, don't fix it.

 

[JamesNinelives]

I like the city conversion model. That said, I don't mind trying alternate methods (I haven't voted in the poll as I'm sort of between two options). Pressure via trade routes seems a bit limited though.

 

[XplosiveLun]

Are there documentation about religion mechanics?

 

[Stalker0]

I like the city conversion model. That said, I don't mind trying alternate methods (I haven't voted in the poll as I'm sort of between two options). Pressure via trade routes seems a bit limited though.

The idea is that missionary spread is still your primary means of spread. TRs just add a focused burst. Even though the pressure isn't a lot...because cities aren't receiving constant pressure all the time like they are today....that pressure can make a much bigger difference than you might think.

 

[bigcat88]

I vote for more friendly AI method that will be clear for human.

 

[JamesNinelives]

The idea is that missionary spread is still your primary means of spread. TRs just add a focused burst. Even though the pressure isn't a lot...because cities aren't receiving constant pressure all the time like they are today....that pressure can make a much bigger difference than you might think.

Yep, I get that. And religious spread via trade routes is cool. I just like passive spread via cities as well. I remember reading something like if you have a road leading to a foreign city that increases religious pressure because the distance calculated is shorter. That appeals to me because it makes sense that neighbours would influence one another, particularly if there was an easy way to travel between them.

 

[jaymrobinson]

How about the missionaries that you create battle it out zapping each other with lightning? Wait, that's a terrible idea.
Honestly, I think the way it works now is not so bad. I'm not sure what is so complicated about the current system. In general, I dislike sending out missionaries to spread religion. Anything that requires more micromanagement is less welcome.

 

[Zuizgond]

Current religious conversion model is fine as it is. I'd rather see a full spy system rework.

 

[Ragic]

First thought that comes to my mind is the ai declaring war on me 1 turn before a trade route is finished (for that reason). Meh.

 

[Jednooki_John]

Been playing Vox since 2016/2017 maybe, always hated religion conversions. These days the only option is to go nuclear with 4 prophets and kick them all at once in the enemy civ and build that damn religious wonder asap, since your religion is always gone from their cities in a next round or two, so whats the point?

 

[bigcat88]

https://github.com/LoneGazebo/Community-Patch-DLL/issues/6408#issuecomment-606428043

From that post by ilteroi:
list of current modifiers for "passive" pressure:

• base pressure 6.5 on std map
• trait modifiers
• belief modifiers
• city state friendship modifier
• tech modifier (printing press)
• policy modifier
• congress modifier (world religion)
• vassal modifier (why?)
• building modifier
• population modifier (india)
• quest modifier (why? send a missionary!)
• scale by fraction of followers in origin city, unless spread religion is majority
• relative faith output modifier (if no traderoute)
• distance modifier relative to max spread distance (if no traderoute)

no wonder the results are sometimes hard to understand.

anyway, keeping the current per turn pressure for traderoutes would remove the last three factors, which are the main source of confusion imho. some of the others seem unnecessary so they could be removed as well.

of course you can talk about dropping some of these modifiers while keeping passive pressure ... but i would like to remove it because that enhances the value of trade and missionaries.

 

[Gidoza]

Yeah I don't like either model, but I wouldn't mind seeing a change. I'm not one to opt for removing pressure, and I'd rather see Inquisitors as they are debuffed or even removed.

Also, could the designers just talk with us out in the open more often rather than keeping it on GitHub? This is the game's forum - let's have GitHub for programming stuff and the forum for discussions.

 

[Bromar1]

Yeah I don't like either model, but I wouldn't mind seeing a change. I'm not one to opt for removing pressure, and I'd rather see Inquisitors as they are debuffed or even removed.

Also, could the designers just talk with us out in the open more often rather than keeping it on GitHub? This is the game's forum - let's have GitHub for programming stuff and the forum for discussions.

I agree with this. Inquisitors completely stopping spread and completely removing all accumulated pressure is such a blunt and obtuse mechanic. Civ is essentially a bucket filling simulator but inquisitors just kick over your bucket and then stand on top of it for the rest of the game. Anytime I've used inquisitors, I always use 2 at once. First is to clear heresy and the second is to stay locked in sleep mode in a city for eternity. It's not very engaging at all

In regards to pressure, I really don't think that pressure needs to scale based on local city faith output. You already have more faith for more missionaries... Getting more pressure for having more faith is serious double dipping

 

[crdvis16]

I don't mind the current system but I also don't mind trying out something new. Even when I don't like a proposed change I've often grown to like them once implemented.

 

[Gazebo]

Yeah I don't like either model, but I wouldn't mind seeing a change. I'm not one to opt for removing pressure, and I'd rather see Inquisitors as they are debuffed or even removed.

Also, could the designers just talk with us out in the open more often rather than keeping it on GitHub? This is the game's forum - let's have GitHub for programming stuff and the forum for discussions.

@ilteroi's Civfanatics account is busted- he can read posts obviously but he can't post anything here for some reason.

 

[vyyt]

@ilteroi's Civfanatics account is busted- he can read posts obviously but he can't post anything here for some reason.

Has he tried talking to the admins here?

 

[Kim Dong Un]

because cities aren't receiving constant pressure all the time like they are today....that pressure can make a much bigger difference than you might think.

Yeah, especially when I choose Orthodoxy 9/10 times because it's over-powered are arguably the GOAT belief, regardless of your religious intentions/focus...

I'm down to try out a more defined/simplistic/straight-forward system, even if it's in a separate beta.

Has he tried talking to the admins here?

Or maybe just create another account? @ilteroi2_ElectricBoogaloo

 

[Bromar1]

Or maybe just create another account? @ilteroi2_ElectricBoogaloo

If @ilteroi's account isn't sacred, what hope do we have?

 

[Stalker0]

If @ilteroi's account isn't sacred, what hope do we have?

No, there is another...