Will do, I'm not going to be able to play tonight in any case. Will play tomorrow.
Pope Chokonut the Indifferent
- Thread starter Ozbenno
- Start date
Mighty Dwaarf
Ginger Beast
I would send missionary to Adrianople. It is only one turn from growing also we would get the 25% production bonus from OR.
Ian. My thoughts were that you can sabotage any type of production in another civs cities buildings wonders and units. Although not 100% sure maybe the fact that one city does not give this option is that it has just finished build and therefore has no hammers invested to sabotage.
Ian. My thoughts were that you can sabotage any type of production in another civs cities buildings wonders and units. Although not 100% sure maybe the fact that one city does not give this option is that it has just finished build and therefore has no hammers invested to sabotage.
So I actually got around to playing this...
We OB with Lincoln.
[he seems impressed with the deal]
We much advanced.
We build a Christian monastery and Granary in the capital in front of the AP.
Adrianople is converted.
We found Confucianism as expected.
Research is switched to Compass but no beakers involved. We could also go Machinery.
Lincoln gets Alphabet and we have this for trading.
We can trade Theology for Alphabet, and see what Kublai has or gift him Priesthood and trade CoL, I shoukld have checked to see if he would give up both Alphabet and Maths for Theology, Priesthood and Meditation but sort of forgot
Confused missionary is headed for Kublai, we should send him some more and probably Lincoln too.
Ap is 2 turns away, remember christian buildings get 2 hammers each now so we should build monasteries and temples in all our christian cities.
I didn't start a settler so next person should do this.
We OB with Lincoln.
[he seems impressed with the deal]
We much advanced.
We build a Christian monastery and Granary in the capital in front of the AP.
Adrianople is converted.
We found Confucianism as expected.
Research is switched to Compass but no beakers involved. We could also go Machinery.
Lincoln gets Alphabet and we have this for trading.
We can trade Theology for Alphabet, and see what Kublai has or gift him Priesthood and trade CoL, I shoukld have checked to see if he would give up both Alphabet and Maths for Theology, Priesthood and Meditation but sort of forgot
Confused missionary is headed for Kublai, we should send him some more and probably Lincoln too.
Ap is 2 turns away, remember christian buildings get 2 hammers each now so we should build monasteries and temples in all our christian cities.
I didn't start a settler so next person should do this.
Looks like I'm about to get whipped...
Roster
Ozbenno
mc-red - On skip
Grey Fox - UP
ianw1610 - On Deck
McArine
Ralph_Jackson
Conroe
Mighty Dwaarf
cubbiesin08
Roster
Ozbenno
mc-red - On skip
Grey Fox - UP
ianw1610 - On Deck
McArine
Ralph_Jackson
Conroe
Mighty Dwaarf
cubbiesin08
GreyFox
Make it so ...
Got it.
I presume we are going to convert to Confused once AP is completed ... then I wouldn't be sending the missionary up so fast ... I would convert one of our hammer heavier city first. Now, we have only one city with our future religion that is gonna build missionary at a pitiful 1 missus 10 turns. But the deed seems to be already done, since the missionary will take 3 turns to go to capitol ... not worth reversing course now.
Build wise: I will ddefinitely build at least one settler and one more worker, while the rest will be concentrating on religious builds. Military wise, I think I can still risk no building any since I can pull some fog-buster away. Research wise, we can continue with compass.
Tech Trade wise, Lincoln is willing to give us { Maths + Alpha } for { Theology, Priesthood + Meditation }. Are we going to take the trade? I would, but some of you might be very concerned with trading theology in fear of him taking up Theocracy.
I presume we are going to convert to Confused once AP is completed ... then I wouldn't be sending the missionary up so fast ... I would convert one of our hammer heavier city first. Now, we have only one city with our future religion that is gonna build missionary at a pitiful 1 missus 10 turns. But the deed seems to be already done, since the missionary will take 3 turns to go to capitol ... not worth reversing course now.
Build wise: I will ddefinitely build at least one settler and one more worker, while the rest will be concentrating on religious builds. Military wise, I think I can still risk no building any since I can pull some fog-buster away. Research wise, we can continue with compass.
Tech Trade wise, Lincoln is willing to give us { Maths + Alpha } for { Theology, Priesthood + Meditation }. Are we going to take the trade? I would, but some of you might be very concerned with trading theology in fear of him taking up Theocracy.
Doesn't matter about Theocracy as you can gift missionaries. I wouldn't switch religions to confusianism at the moment. Either go no religion (so we get no negatives from either Kublai or Lincoln) or stay Christian (I'd favour no religion).
ianw1610
King
I looked at the save - various Sunday-morning thoughts below...
- Lincoln is willing to give us Alphabet and Mathematics in exchange for Metal Casting, Meditation and Priesthood - I suggest we accept this deal right now. I'd prefer if we did it this way, rather than trading away Theology.
- We are really strong on health, so lets gift Pig to Kublai immediately. In the long run we will get a +1 for this, which could be crucial in the Diplo vote... we shouldn't have a problem with losing 1 health per city.
- Upon completion of the AP, lets switch to No State Religion. If Kublai asks us to convert to Confucianism, we can agree and get a +1 for doing so.
- If someone demands a technology or resource from us, we say yes... even if it is Theology. Every +1 in Diplomacy is crucial.
- The currently active Confucian missionary should go to Karakorum. Nicaea should work the Gold mine for the extra hammers, and should immediately work on a Confucian missionary to go to Constantinople, which itself can then pump out a few more Confucian missionaries, to go to the larger cities of Kublai and Lincoln.
- Any missionary which we send to Lincoln may need to be escorted, due to the large number of Barbarians he will need to go past.
- We should whip courthouses in Thess and Adria as soon as we can. After this, we should switch to Caste System, to accelerate the Great Scientist creation in Thess. The Thess Great Scientist must arrive before the Const Great Prophet.
- The Adria Great Scientist should eventually bulb Philosophy... I'm not sure if we actively WANT to found Taoism ourselves... maybe ZZZ the Scientist until Taoism is founded in a distant land, and then bulb Philosophy??? The Thess Great Scientist will bulb Optics. All we need to research in the meantime is Compass and Machinery, given that we will get Alphabet and Mathematics from Lincoln, as noted above.
- After the two Great Scientists, our next Great Person should be a Prophet, in Const. The Prophet should be used to bulb Civil Service. In order to do this, we need to AVOID MONARCHY (as that would make the Prophet try to bulb Divine Right instead). Bureaucracy is good, not only for the extra hammers and commerce in the capital, but also because it is Kublai's favourite civic, so we will get a Diplo bonus if both him and us are running it. Optics is more important to us for the overall game-winning strategy, which is why I want the Thess Great Scientist before the Const Great Prophet, but the Great Prophet will have its use. Just don't accept Monarchy in a trade!!
- After we research Compass and Machinery, and bulb Philosophy and Optics, we would then research Paper, in order to trade for maps... particularly maps of the other continent... in order that we know the locations of the small religion-less cities, to which our Christian missionaries would be headed.
- Our exploring Trireme needs to return to our cultural borders for when we get Optics, in order that we can upgrade it to a Caravel. Furthermore, when Optics arrives, we need a Christian missionary to be sitting in Adria, and sufficient Treasury to upgrade at least one Trireme to a Caravel. As there are 4 rivals on the other continent, and only 3 missionaries are allowed at once, we need to get that first overseas missionary out to sail the seas ASAP.
- Kublai is now ahead of us in Power... I suspect he has Keshiks... we need to build the appropriate defensive units as soon as we can.
- If we do go for another city (which I'd value only from a military standpoint, not an economic standpoint...), make sure it has either Copper or Iron. I'd favour Spearmen, ahead of Axemen or Swordsmen, for the +100% vs Keshiks.
- And finally, SGOTM9 has nothing to do with a Religious victory!! It is Space Colony with Pericles, starting in 4000BC, but with 8 modern / future era technologies known from the start (sign-up thread now up and running!!!)
- Lincoln is willing to give us Alphabet and Mathematics in exchange for Metal Casting, Meditation and Priesthood - I suggest we accept this deal right now. I'd prefer if we did it this way, rather than trading away Theology.
- We are really strong on health, so lets gift Pig to Kublai immediately. In the long run we will get a +1 for this, which could be crucial in the Diplo vote... we shouldn't have a problem with losing 1 health per city.
- Upon completion of the AP, lets switch to No State Religion. If Kublai asks us to convert to Confucianism, we can agree and get a +1 for doing so.
- If someone demands a technology or resource from us, we say yes... even if it is Theology. Every +1 in Diplomacy is crucial.
- The currently active Confucian missionary should go to Karakorum. Nicaea should work the Gold mine for the extra hammers, and should immediately work on a Confucian missionary to go to Constantinople, which itself can then pump out a few more Confucian missionaries, to go to the larger cities of Kublai and Lincoln.
- Any missionary which we send to Lincoln may need to be escorted, due to the large number of Barbarians he will need to go past.
- We should whip courthouses in Thess and Adria as soon as we can. After this, we should switch to Caste System, to accelerate the Great Scientist creation in Thess. The Thess Great Scientist must arrive before the Const Great Prophet.
- The Adria Great Scientist should eventually bulb Philosophy... I'm not sure if we actively WANT to found Taoism ourselves... maybe ZZZ the Scientist until Taoism is founded in a distant land, and then bulb Philosophy??? The Thess Great Scientist will bulb Optics. All we need to research in the meantime is Compass and Machinery, given that we will get Alphabet and Mathematics from Lincoln, as noted above.
- After the two Great Scientists, our next Great Person should be a Prophet, in Const. The Prophet should be used to bulb Civil Service. In order to do this, we need to AVOID MONARCHY (as that would make the Prophet try to bulb Divine Right instead). Bureaucracy is good, not only for the extra hammers and commerce in the capital, but also because it is Kublai's favourite civic, so we will get a Diplo bonus if both him and us are running it. Optics is more important to us for the overall game-winning strategy, which is why I want the Thess Great Scientist before the Const Great Prophet, but the Great Prophet will have its use. Just don't accept Monarchy in a trade!!
- After we research Compass and Machinery, and bulb Philosophy and Optics, we would then research Paper, in order to trade for maps... particularly maps of the other continent... in order that we know the locations of the small religion-less cities, to which our Christian missionaries would be headed.
- Our exploring Trireme needs to return to our cultural borders for when we get Optics, in order that we can upgrade it to a Caravel. Furthermore, when Optics arrives, we need a Christian missionary to be sitting in Adria, and sufficient Treasury to upgrade at least one Trireme to a Caravel. As there are 4 rivals on the other continent, and only 3 missionaries are allowed at once, we need to get that first overseas missionary out to sail the seas ASAP.
- Kublai is now ahead of us in Power... I suspect he has Keshiks... we need to build the appropriate defensive units as soon as we can.
- If we do go for another city (which I'd value only from a military standpoint, not an economic standpoint...), make sure it has either Copper or Iron. I'd favour Spearmen, ahead of Axemen or Swordsmen, for the +100% vs Keshiks.
- And finally, SGOTM9 has nothing to do with a Religious victory!! It is Space Colony with Pericles, starting in 4000BC, but with 8 modern / future era technologies known from the start (sign-up thread now up and running!!!)
Mighty Dwaarf
Ginger Beast
I think we need to plan at the moment for the about the next 2-3 sets as we are about 30 turns from completing both Compass and Machinery. Our second GS (from Thess) is currently 36 turns away and this is the one we will use to bulb Optics so if we want to get him as soon as we can bulb Optics we are going to have to switch to Caste at some point.
He is 216 points off so if we switch after x turns he wil be born after y turns.
So y=24+1/3x so we are probably looking at switching after 12 or 15 or 18 turns which will give total of 28 or 29 or 30 turns. If we are going to whip courthouses these should bedone thisturnset but care should be taken not to lose scientists in Thess. Care should also be taken when whipping in Adrianople as first GS (currently 16 turns) needs to appear before GP from cap (currently 20 turns at best).
We should also think about city on west coast for ships. I would even put this city before Iron city and would start settler for this after next turn (after growth) in capital and probably cows rice spot east/north east of gold city is best. Once rice cows is workable then has couple of hills too so should be able to get at least couple of triremes ready before Optics.
I would use missionary on Mongols as we need to tie him down to confused before we complete AP. We can start second missionary in gold city. This will grow to 3 next turn so can also work the gold to help produce quicker. We should only change to OR after this missionary has completed and maybe even spread to Constantinople as without OR we cant build another until gold city has a confused monastry.
If we mix in a settler into capital then AP will finish in 5 turns Licoln wont be able to complete in that time without a GE so we should be safe enough. I also wouldnt worry about saving a GS until Taoism is founded as Buddhism and Hindhu will have spread throughout other continent.
He is 216 points off so if we switch after x turns he wil be born after y turns.
So y=24+1/3x so we are probably looking at switching after 12 or 15 or 18 turns which will give total of 28 or 29 or 30 turns. If we are going to whip courthouses these should bedone thisturnset but care should be taken not to lose scientists in Thess. Care should also be taken when whipping in Adrianople as first GS (currently 16 turns) needs to appear before GP from cap (currently 20 turns at best).
We should also think about city on west coast for ships. I would even put this city before Iron city and would start settler for this after next turn (after growth) in capital and probably cows rice spot east/north east of gold city is best. Once rice cows is workable then has couple of hills too so should be able to get at least couple of triremes ready before Optics.
I would use missionary on Mongols as we need to tie him down to confused before we complete AP. We can start second missionary in gold city. This will grow to 3 next turn so can also work the gold to help produce quicker. We should only change to OR after this missionary has completed and maybe even spread to Constantinople as without OR we cant build another until gold city has a confused monastry.
If we mix in a settler into capital then AP will finish in 5 turns Licoln wont be able to complete in that time without a GE so we should be safe enough. I also wouldnt worry about saving a GS until Taoism is founded as Buddhism and Hindhu will have spread throughout other continent.
GreyFox
Make it so ...
@Mightly: We are already in OR
@Ian: I remember it was {Theocracy + Mediation + Priesthood} that Lincoln wanted when I checked the save .... I would see if he will accept Metal Casting (cheaper, I think) instead of Theocracy. Anyway, there is no way I can check that beforehand ... I think.
I maintain that confused miss is better sent to our stronger city initially ... when I say 10 turns for gold city to build miss, that is when I have already switch the pop to gold mine. However, since Ozzy has already moved the miss into a jungle position, I will continue to send him to Mongolia. (As I have said, it is sometimes a greater mistake to correct a minor mistake).
Next city will be iron. And to help connecting, we need one more worker. West coast city can wait a bit ... Optics is still at least two turnsets away. Now that we have CoL, we can probably go a bit more settle-happy than we had previously.
It seems like the other players is still advocating a try-to-be-friends path with both KK and Lincoln? I will try to align myself to that strat ... but my trusted old guts is still telling me chase-two-rabbits-warning, esp the two hated each others' guts ... however, I concede that diplomacy is one of my weakest area (the other being espionage).
Will play in 12 hrs.
--
@Ian: I remember it was {Theocracy + Mediation + Priesthood} that Lincoln wanted when I checked the save .... I would see if he will accept Metal Casting (cheaper, I think) instead of Theocracy. Anyway, there is no way I can check that beforehand ... I think.
I maintain that confused miss is better sent to our stronger city initially ... when I say 10 turns for gold city to build miss, that is when I have already switch the pop to gold mine. However, since Ozzy has already moved the miss into a jungle position, I will continue to send him to Mongolia. (As I have said, it is sometimes a greater mistake to correct a minor mistake).
Next city will be iron. And to help connecting, we need one more worker. West coast city can wait a bit ... Optics is still at least two turnsets away. Now that we have CoL, we can probably go a bit more settle-happy than we had previously.
It seems like the other players is still advocating a try-to-be-friends path with both KK and Lincoln? I will try to align myself to that strat ... but my trusted old guts is still telling me chase-two-rabbits-warning, esp the two hated each others' guts ... however, I concede that diplomacy is one of my weakest area (the other being espionage).
Will play in 12 hrs.
--
Gold city will grow to size 3 in 1 turn, so don't work the gold until then.
I would have thought that Theocracy was a safer tech to give to Lincoln than Metal Casing, the AP is built in 2 turns.
Next city should be iron.
I think we should try and suck up to both until we have to make a choice. No point making the wrong choice now.
Has everyone signed up for SGOTM9? I was pretty wrong on the type of game. Do we want to continue this after the game starts in 2 weeks?
I would have thought that Theocracy was a safer tech to give to Lincoln than Metal Casing, the AP is built in 2 turns.
Next city should be iron.
I think we should try and suck up to both until we have to make a choice. No point making the wrong choice now.
Has everyone signed up for SGOTM9? I was pretty wrong on the type of game. Do we want to continue this after the game starts in 2 weeks?
GreyFox
Make it so ...
I haven't signed up yet ... (not sure if you guys still want me after all the disagreements I'd made 
... j/k, no hurry, right?) ... but I would finish this.
Why do you consider Theocracy a safer tech? I don't suppose we are planning to build the Colossus? Is it because you feel that MC has lower priority by AI, so more trade value? Beakers wise, MC is 10% cheaper.
-
... j/k, no hurry, right?) ... but I would finish this.Why do you consider Theocracy a safer tech? I don't suppose we are planning to build the Colossus? Is it because you feel that MC has lower priority by AI, so more trade value? Beakers wise, MC is 10% cheaper.
-
Theology is somewhat of a dead end tech, whereas Metal Casing leads to other techs. I suppose it doesn't really matter too much. Happy to go either way.
And of course we want you in the SGOTM
And of course we want you in the SGOTM
GreyFox
Make it so ...
As discussed, we got maths and alpha ... hmmm ... we learn ABC and 123 at the same time 
Seems like Lincoln didn't waste any time using his Great Walls, Alphabet, and his favorite tactics:
Well, we didn't waste time using our missus either:
I produced a settler before the AP ... but there really is no way anyone could have snatched the Palace from us:
And we voted ourselves as Pope ...
Those with bright eyes and sharp minds would have noticed we switched to No religion, since our votes count dropped from 42 to 21.
I have also whipped two courthouses before adopting Caste ... but it was useless. Firstly, we do not have the food needed for Thess to support 3 scientists ... and secondly I forgot to stagnant it, and it grows to 1 extra pop
Don't worry, the whip penalty will be gone soon, and once that happen, the third scientist can probably be hired. In any case, Const will definitely overtake Thess to produce the next GP due to the AP's GP points.
We also settled the iron city, I choose to have less desert as opposed to one more hill:
This will give us one extra cow, so once pasture is roaded, we can gift one source of cows to
KK if we don't care abt "traded with worst enemy". I am building the granary here, so Adrianople should start a workboat on behalf of Antioch for the clams after its current missionary build.
I have also build one more settler, and despite my better judgment, I head it to the west coast. This is the consequence:
And, I made one more mistake:
Damned! Else the next player could have settled before pressing enter. Now it has to move back, and settle the next turn, wasting two turns in total.
:sorry:
Anyway, tech trade available, suggest we get construction from KK.
Seems like Lincoln didn't waste any time using his Great Walls, Alphabet, and his favorite tactics:
Well, we didn't waste time using our missus either:
I produced a settler before the AP ... but there really is no way anyone could have snatched the Palace from us:
And we voted ourselves as Pope ...
Those with bright eyes and sharp minds would have noticed we switched to No religion, since our votes count dropped from 42 to 21.
I have also whipped two courthouses before adopting Caste ... but it was useless. Firstly, we do not have the food needed for Thess to support 3 scientists ... and secondly I forgot to stagnant it, and it grows to 1 extra pop
Don't worry, the whip penalty will be gone soon, and once that happen, the third scientist can probably be hired. In any case, Const will definitely overtake Thess to produce the next GP due to the AP's GP points.
We also settled the iron city, I choose to have less desert as opposed to one more hill:
This will give us one extra cow, so once pasture is roaded, we can gift one source of cows to
KK if we don't care abt "traded with worst enemy". I am building the granary here, so Adrianople should start a workboat on behalf of Antioch for the clams after its current missionary build.
I have also build one more settler, and despite my better judgment, I head it to the west coast. This is the consequence:
And, I made one more mistake:
Damned! Else the next player could have settled before pressing enter. Now it has to move back, and settle the next turn, wasting two turns in total.
:sorry:
Anyway, tech trade available, suggest we get construction from KK.
Mighty Dwaarf
Ginger Beast
@Mightly: We are already in OR
--
I for some reason had thought changing to no religion would also mean change from OR and thus need a monastry to build missionaries
but it was early on Sunday morning when I wrote it. 
I think we should finish this off. If things go to plan I can see this being over in 6-8 turnsets.
ianw1610
King
Got it.
Ideas / comments, in response to my post #209 above, anyone?!!
Ideas / comments, in response to my post #209 above, anyone?!!
Machinery looks like next tech off the block. Otherwise things are going well.
ianw1610
King
@GreyFox - you are aware that the location you are pointing out for the currently-active Settler isn't coastal, right? So, in addition to that city, you want one further city on the West coast, to build Caravels? And, if so, where?
I've read many-an-article from jesusin on Great Person optimisation... the Thessalonica Scientist WILL arrive before the Constantinople Prophet, I promise you!!
I've read many-an-article from jesusin on Great Person optimisation... the Thessalonica Scientist WILL arrive before the Constantinople Prophet, I promise you!!
I was assuming he sent the settler 1E by mistake and now has to go back to the coast.
Once we get iron hooked up there are some juicy barb cities waiting for some swords.
Once we get iron hooked up there are some juicy barb cities waiting for some swords.
