Popular protests in the EU

[red_elk]

So, while the tax on wealthy forced that fat actor-turned-drunkard to move to the freedumb of Moscow, Russia – it also killed the French economy?

There were a bunch of people, journalists, actors, former celebrities who got Russian citizenship recently. Don't know why, almost all of them are either from France or from USA.

 

[Hrothbern]

You missed the part when Hollande effectively killed French economy with ridiculous 80% tax on rich leading to capital flight and reduction of state income. The tax reduction was required condition to bring some income back.

Thanks, I had overlooked that recent tax increase by Hollande

But I do not think at all that that tax killed the French economy.
Even if such a tax would lower structurally the GDP per Capita with 1-2%, which I do not believe, I would be quite happy to have a 1-2% lower prosperity level for myself if that is the consequence of a more fair society.

On that 80%.
I digged in a little bit and saw in an Guardian article of 2014, when Hollande was "forced" to drop that tax, that it was 75% on earnings above Euro 1 million (not their total earnings).
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/dec/31/france-drops-75percent-supertax

To consider:
In the period 1940-1970 very high progressive tax systems were common in the western developed world, Typical 70-95% for earnings above the highest treshold of the system.
And yet.... surprise, surprise... the period after WW2 enabled these countries huge economic growth in GDP and GDP per Capita, and enabled West European countries to invest massively in their infra and at the same time to build up a solid welfare system.

 

[Hrothbern]

There were a bunch of people, journalists, actors, former celebrities who got Russian citizenship recently. Don't know why, almost all of them are either from France or from USA.

Part of the wandering wealthy do like caviar

 

[REDY]

Thanks, I had overlooked that recent tax increase by Hollande

But I do not think at all that that tax killed the French economy.
Even if such a tax would lower structurally the GDP per Capita with 1-2%, which I do not believe, I would be quite happy to have a 1-2% lower prosperity level for myself if that is the consequence of a more fair society.

On that 80%.
I digged in a little bit and saw in an Guardian article of 2014, when Hollande was "forced" to drop that tax, that it was 75% on earnings above Euro 1 million (not their total earnings).
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/dec/31/france-drops-75percent-supertax

To consider:
In the period 1940-1970 very high progressive tax systems were common in the western developed world, Typical 70-95% for earnings above the highest treshold of the system.
And yet.... surprise, surprise... the period after WW2 enabled these countries huge economic growth in GDP and GDP per Capita, and enabled West European countries to invest massively in their infra and at the same time to build up a solid welfare system.

Well this is how progressive tax works...At least I hope that its never from total earnings. To me seem to be flat tax as only fair tax. There are people with high income who deserve to become wealthy and there are people who doing nothing but having wealth. Plus other taxes...Astrid Lindgren wrote satirical true story from her homeland taxing her above 100%
What France lost is trust. Currently its much harder to sell than produce, and when France have high taxes best people will earn and invest abroad. And its honestly not because high taxes but because they are angry on their country trying rob them. What I see in France is quite like dystopian movie. But there were big protests in 1968 too, oil crisis, war in algeria,etc...so probably France still should stand up with some reforms. So far it seems that only economical winner in EU is Germany. Maybe would be solution just become part of Germany?
There is quite common flee of investments of western corporations to abroad. Currently I work for French corporation, receiving less than French minimal salary and most of corporate IT support is in India and in my understanding its quite common also in other corporations. And these really rich can afford really good accounting.
In current globalized world with high competition and no national cohesion I think that only workable far left wing solution would be globalized action. It would be good if we as earth population changed mindset, but honestly I do not want to pay to my country without knowledge where is my every crown being invested either. Having social state is becoming almost same hard as having communism 20 years ago. Robotisation should change the game, but I fear that it would be to worse.

 

[brennan]

Thanks, I had overlooked that recent tax increase by Hollande

But I do not think at all that that tax killed the French economy.

If you dig about you'll find it hardly affected anyone and didn't make much money. Millionaires don't tend to pay themselves in mere wages.

 

[Akka]

Well this is how progressive tax works...At least I hope that its never from total earnings. To me seem to be flat tax as only fair tax.

Flat tax is actually the most unfair tax, because the less money you have, the bigger the proportion is about "basic necessities". In this case, taxes eat into what you NEED, while the more money you have, the more your money is for luxury and taxes only hit what you can easily do without (if they do actually have any effect on you).

If I earn 1000 € a month, I'm barely surviving. Any tax will put me deeper in the red.
If I earn 10000 € a month, I'm maybe spending one third to have a very comfortable life, everything else is just pocket money, so taxes barely affect me beyond the whining "I pay a bigger proportion !". I may put "only" 3000 instead of 5000 into my savings, woe me.

 

[Traitorfish]

In what world do the French qualify as "poor"?

"The French" does not seem to me a very useful socioeconomic category. You may as well ask whether "humans" are poor.

 

[Aleksey_aka_al]

Hey, EUropeans (and Americans too)! Tell me this. I've seen people sleeping on the streets of Bangkok to wake up early in the morning and go back to work. And they looked happy, calm inside and carefree. Which one of the Western so-called developed countries have this kind of well-being? Tell me, please. So maybe I'll stop dreaming about going downshift and moving to Indochina.

 

[red_elk]

Requirements to get a job in Buddhist countries:
1) Passive life stance
2) Ability not to make decisions
3) Absence of ambitions
4) Understanding that the job and salary are illusory

 

[innonimatu]

Requirements to get a job in France: just cross the street! According to Macron...

 

[Patine]

Hey, EUropeans (and Americans too)! Tell me this. I've seen people sleeping on the streets of Bangkok to wake up early in the morning and go back to work. And they looked happy, calm inside and carefree. Which one of the Western so-called developed countries have this kind of well-being? Tell me, please. So maybe I'll stop dreaming about going downshift and moving to Indochina.

Well, Phil Robertson infamously said the U.S. Civil Rights Movement was built on malarkey because when he was young he "was hoeing cotton in inland Louisiana along with the Blacks, because he was just White Trash, and they were singing and happy." So many people are fooled by the attitudes and demeanors of socioeconomic groups they are intrinsically alienated from (including self-alienated, for a large part) and what is REALLY the lives behind the faces they show the world.

 

[Yeekim]

"The French" does not seem to me a very useful socioeconomic category. You may as well ask whether "humans" are poor.

I was unaware the "yellow vests" represent any particular socioeconomic category, useful or otherwise.

 

[Yeekim]

Just ask yourself – why are you belittling these issues and these people’s concerns? What are you gaining? Who are you supporting?

I mostly just reacted to your clear hyperbole about Paris being home to some of the poorest people on planet.
And I don't feel particular empathy towards people whose preferred method of demonstrating their concerns - even valid ones - is smashing windows.
It's not as if France does not have elections.

 

[Ironsided]

No hyperbole. I believe this could be outside Maison de Victor Hugo? You tell me who is poorer than having nothing at all?

https://theculturetrip.com/europe/f...s-for-the-first-time-heres-why-its-important/

It’s OK if you do not feel particular empathy. I’m more concerned with the constant generalisations you make. It’s almost as if you are set out to find easy answers to a complex problem. But you are not alone.

 

[red_elk]

And I don't feel particular empathy towards people whose preferred method of demonstrating their concerns - even valid ones - is smashing windows.
It's not as if France does not have elections.

Elections don't help to resolve their problems, apparently.
And only minority of protesters turned violent, yet.

 

[Kyriakos]

Macron was the entirely wrong choice. Melenchon would have tried to change stuff.

 

[Ironsided]

Yeah. Talk about a 4head just waiting to be fotoshopped.

 

[Hrothbern]

In the period 19995-2015 Purchasing Power Parity per Capita of Estonia grew with a factor 4, and most western European countries with a factor 2 (incl France).

Besides the absoluter level of prosperity that progress rate will have effect on the relative feeling on how good things are

 

[Kyriakos]

In the period 19995-2015 Purchasing Power Parity per Capita of Estonia grew with a factor 4, and most western European countries with a factor 2 (incl France).

Besides the absoluter level of prosperity that progress rate will have effect on the relative feeling on how good things are

Well, estonia has the gdp of half a small city, so it isnt really comparable.

 

[Hrothbern]

Well, estonia has the gdp of half a small city, so it isnt really comparable.

It is small yes.
But the few people that live there with that PPP per Capita going up up twice as fast as us, are more happy.
I checked the GINI for Estonia and that is comparable to many other EU countries
(meaning too much inequality, but while the pancake grows fast enough, it bites less)