Population Control

[UKScud]

Hello.

I played my first game as Elizabeth and for a significant part of the game my population was just too large for the happiness I was able to generate. It definately acted heavily against what I wanted to achieve. But being my first game I know that there must be better ways to deal with this hence the post.

From what I can work out...

On a normal difficulty game you start with 9 happiness.

For most Civs each city contributes 2 unhappiness [the exception being India whose special ability makes this 4 unhappiness].
For most Civs each unit of population contributes 1 unhappiness [the exception being India whose special ability makes this 0.5 unhappiness].

Each luxury contributes 5 happiness [but not more than once], and there are, I think, 15 luxury resources making a maximum luxury contribution of 75.

The Circus can only be built if you have horses or elephants nearby [I got lucky in my first game and I think I built between 3 and 5 of these, for 9 - 15 extra happiness]

Colluseums can be built by everyone who reaches construction [I would estimate at least eight plus built in my first game, for about 32 happiness]

Theatre can only be built if you have a Colluseum and cost 5 gold producing 4 happiness [so I think that maybe I built five of these, adding 20 more happiness]

To build a Stadium you need a Theatre, and it costs 6 gold for 4 happiness [I don't recall building any of these, my economy had ground down by that time and I couldn't afford it]

We've got natural wonders as well as a few social policies that add to happiness but I think I've most everything.

So I have two questions.

1) Given the very finite amount of happiness what would you estimate the maximum population of your empire should be?

2) Is there any way to control your population...
(a) In those puppet cities you may have conquered? [because it crippled me in that first game, when I had a low happiness, and the population in those conquered cities just kept going up!]
(b) In your own cities?

The only solution I can see to 2(b) is to remove people from working the hexes, and maybe place them in specialist positions, or unemployed (so that the food total for the city decreases). The Avoid growth checkbox only slows things down a little, it certainly doesn't prevent the city size from growing, like in Civ 4.

Any considered, useful comments gratefully recevied. Thanks!

 

[Callonia]

Would like help too , I dislike micromanagement, I never did it in civ 3-4 as in placing such citizens in specific hexs.

I don't know why civ 5 have such a hatred for appearance of metropolises. Frankly its one of things that's depressing me about civ 5

We need map editor in here quick so we can forget about silly things like happiness and we can go have fun.

Other thing, civ 5 made happiness very important yet, they made it very harmful to try and combat it, In fact, colosseums is bestest happiness generator building for number of faces it gives and the least maintenance costs.

A upgrade of happy face building, gives LESS HAPPY FACES AND COSTS EVEN MORE TO MAINTAIN!

I have about ten saves so far or less, they all stop at the unhappiness murdering them and not having the income to build the happiness generator nor even having a army of ten units at least.

 

[ChristofferC]

I haven't tried this but if you have a lot of gold laying around, you could build a couple of size 1 cities and rushbuy happiness buildings in them for more happiness. Not very cost effective though, I think.

 

[UKScud]

Callonia: I think you hit on something I felt, which was that it was a kind of downwards spiral as with the later eras you are definately paying through the nose to maintain happiness...but focusing on the positive I'm goin to be much more aware of the balance that is needed in future games.

ChristofferC: Good idea, but part of the problem is that those pop 1 cities are soon enough going to be much larger and just make the problem worse.

Hence my question, is there this maximum population beyond which things just spiral downwards?

I still won my first game with a Time Victory but I would like to have done it without a total unhappiness of about 20 at times.

 

[Necro-]

from what ive seen the horse/ivory doesnt need to be nearby, just connected to your network

 

[yanner39]

Here's my 2 cents...

Make allies with as many City-States as possible.

In all honesty, the only time I've had problems with happiness is in the very early stages of the game. I just delay my 2nd city until I can afford it, happiness-wise. City-states, once allied with them, will give you silk, spices, gems, gold, etc...

Also, a city-state will give you iron, so the iron you have mined you can trade it to the AI for Wine, for example, or gold per turn to get the cash to bring the circus to town.

Finally, abuse the Piety branch of the social policies.

EDIT: For the puppet cities, once you've researched maths, annex the puppet city and build a couthouse.

 

[Celevin]

I think you hit the nail on the head, you actually need to click "Avoid Growth".

With puppets you have three options.
1) Annex them, take the hit, and get the courthouse up.
2) Keep them as a puppet and take away most production / food resources using workers, making them only produce gold
3) Sell the puppets for a lot of gold

 

[ChristofferC]

Callonia: I think you hit on something I felt, which was that it was a kind of downwards spiral as with the later eras you are definately paying through the nose to maintain happiness...but focusing on the positive I'm goin to be much more aware of the balance that is needed in future games.

ChristofferC: Good idea, but part of the problem is that those pop 1 cities are soon enough going to be much larger and just make the problem worse.

Hence my question, is there this maximum population beyond which things just spiral downwards?

I still won my first game with a Time Victory but I would like to have done it without a total unhappiness of about 20 at times.

Click "avoid growth"?

 

[UKScud]

Click "avoid growth"?

Trouble is, it isn't stop growth...in Civ 4 when you clicked Avoid Growth it didn't grow...here all it does is slow down the inevitable growth. Where is the gameplay reason for that?

Over the past five hours of so, I've been playing a game with the Indians, paying particular attention to controlling my population. At the moment I have six cities, that are all pop 7-9 and developing nicely. The Americans are to my south, and starting to gobble up city states. Stockholm has fallen, and Rio is now under attack.

So to keep things in my favour I am going to have to go to war with him...maybe I can get Rio back (I shan't be able to stop its fall). However, I'm a little bit hesitant because the hit I am going to take on happiness is going to put me in the red. Which will stifle my future growth...war is hell I guess.

Still, if I can get those city-states to ally status I might just come off better than when I started. We shall see tomorrow...off to bed now.