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Portugal Discussion

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by otaman1, Apr 12, 2013.

  1. Stove

    Stove Chieftain

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    I didn't mean the UI, I meant the forts mentioned that protect trade routes

     
  2. Louis XXIV

    Louis XXIV Le Roi Soleil

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    That's a misstatement.
     
  3. spacedinosaur

    spacedinosaur Chieftain

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    Oman changed its capital from Muscat to Zanzibar upon political turmoil and economic pursuit in their colony of Zanzibar (a former Portuguese feitoria taken by the Omani Empire). Portugal wasn't the only to do so, however they're the only Europeans to do so. I, too, do not call this cowardice; rather a smart move (literally). :king:
     
  4. Quinas

    Quinas Chieftain

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    For those that can understand Portuguese and want to know a little bit more about Queen Maria I check this link.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLo3dHG0WEw

    I hope that this link will change the way we all look at Queen Maria I.
     
  5. Mr.Q

    Mr.Q Chieftain

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    Obrigado/Thank you for the link!
     
  6. Scaramanga

    Scaramanga Chieftain

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    I don't know Portuguese. Does it change it for the better?
     
  7. Genghis.Khan

    Genghis.Khan Person

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    Description - For RFE it has to be modded... C'mon... What about the Discoveries, exploration, colonization, commerce, sea route monopolization... Firaxis?!

    Feitoria Symbol - I don't like UI Symbols, in general, but Terrace Farms and Moais are not bad... But this Feitoria looks really bad IMO...

    UA - Mare Clausum is not a name I'd expect... But that is not really bad... By Seas Never Sailed Before, Beyond the Taprobana, From the Ocidental Lusitanian Beach, Treaty of Tordesilhas or Sea Route to India were better choices IMO

    Totaly agreed about Maria II being a better leader than Maria I.

    Just one point: the title Reino Unido de Portugal, Brasil e Algarves - The United Kingdom of Portugal, Brazil and the Algarves happened in Maria I's Kindgom but it was way larger in the time of D. Manuel.
     
  8. Liex

    Liex Chieftain

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    It tries. It shows that Maria's reign had its merits, but it didn't work for me... I grew up hearing about how she was mad, prohibited industries in Brazil etc. I don't think I ever heard a single good thing about that woman before this video; that's why I hate when the Portuguese loadscreen says she "will always be admired and respected by the people of both nations [Brazil and Portugal]". Wow, wait there!
     
  9. Green_Power

    Green_Power Chieftain

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    I'm super happy to see Portugal in. We had Prince Henrique/Henry "The Navigator" in Civ3 and João/John II "The Perfect Prince" in Civ4. We also had a mod with Afonso Henriques "The Conqueror" (our founding and most beloved king). So, seeing a Queen now is refreshing. Could be Maria II or Maria I. It's Maria I, great.

    Carrack/Nau as UU makes all the sense. A very important ship design (stable and roomy), developed and first used by the Portuguese. Later on it was used by other Civilizations, like Spain and France. It's recognized as "one of most influential ship designs in history" (wiki).

    Feitoria makes all the sense also. We were great explorers and settlers, but above all we were natural traders. We are a very easy going, laid back but tenacious people. We traveled everywhere looking for goods and good bargains.

    First Europeans to reach Índia by sea by Vasco da Gama in 1498. Discoverers of Brasil in 1500 by Pedro Álvares Cabral. Circumnavigation of the Earth in 1522 by Fernão de Magalhães / Ferdinand Magellan. These are perhaps three of our major highlights. But, yea, we were everywhere in the world between the 15th and 17th century.

    Above all, we are a Maritime nation (due to our geographical location - western most country in Europe). We were (once) the most powerful empire of the world, when Maritime power prevailed. We are also one of the oldest European countries, with >850 years, ~700 years with the same borders.

    So, I think it makes all the sense that Portugal is in Civ 5. Perhaps it should be in already, but better later than never :)

    Enjoy being an explorer, adventurer and merchant!
     
  10. JSMCAG

    JSMCAG Chieftain

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    Uh? :confused: How is "Treaty of Tordesilhas" any better than "Mare Clausum", which, as I stated a couple of pages back, is a direct reference to it?

    EDIT:
    By the emphasis, one would conclude that the treaty is both part of Portuguese and Spanish history, but the closing of the sea for anyone that isn't permitted by the king of Portugal himself ("Mare clausum" meaning "closed sea", as in, no other state can navigate the sea) is rather tightly connected with Portugal (then again, not that the other nations payed much care for it :lol:).

    The other names would fit Portugal better, but maybe not the UA itself, since they allude to some kind of exploration bonus. Again, "Mare Clausum" is hardly the best name out there, but it is certainly not outlandish. There are certainly worse names out there.
    And heck, again taken from the wiki:
     
  11. spacedinosaur

    spacedinosaur Chieftain

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    I can see how Brasilians wouldn't like her. I have experienced the realms of both sides of the Atlantic enough to know the opinions of one side does not speak for the other. I was first introduced to her as Maria a Piedosa. When I first heard Brasilians refer to her as Maria a Louca, I honestly thought they were talking about a novela.

    :agree: I cut your post short but I totally agree with you on everything!
     
  12. Genghis.Khan

    Genghis.Khan Person

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    You have your point, but the reason I didn't like that name was that Mare Clausum represents only a part of Portuguese History, as a few decades later, under the rule of the Spanish Dynaty in Portugal (1580-1640) Portugal had to engage war with Spain for its' Independence and whith the Netherlands for retrieving Colonies, and it just feels like it does not take that in account. Whereas, Treaty of Tordesilhas is a mention to Portuguese Exploration, in general, but Mare Clausum is also a good name.

    About Wikipedia, stupid translations and inaccuracies:

    1. This title is a reference to D. Manuel I's title and is VERY INCOMPLETE.

    2. The original title in Portuguese was something similiar to

    "Pela Graça de Deus Rei de Portugal, Brasil e Algarves, D'Áquem e D'Álem Mar em África, Senhor de Ceuta e da Guiné, Senhor do Comércio, Conquista e Navegação da Arábia, Pérsia e Índias"

    In English:

    "For the Grace of God, King of Portugal, Brasil and the Algarves, within and beyond the sea in Africa, Lord of Ceuta and Guinea, Lord of Commerce, Conquest and Navigation of Arabia, Persia and India"
     
  13. Haig

    Haig Chieftain

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    Does Portugal still have overseas territories like france, U.K., Spain? Maybe Dutch too?

    Kind of cool that there's still some "colonies" left..
     
  14. lp_04

    lp_04 Chieftain

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    Nop. Madeira and Azores only. We gave independence to all the colonies (even the small ones). A good thing portugal did, I think :)
     
  15. nunor

    nunor Chieftain

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    It held Macao until 1999 (thus being considered the longest-lasting of modern colonial empires - which seems strange because France and Spain, as you said, still hold overseas territories). Other than that, just the islands of Azores and Madeira which were uninhabited before.
     
  16. Akinaba

    Akinaba Chieftain

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    A true example for every country in the world
     
  17. Genghis.Khan

    Genghis.Khan Person

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    ... not an example on how it did happen after 1974...

    IMHO, but everyone has to agree that leaving thousands of Portuguese citizens alone in the Colonies with no support + the disorder concerning Colony Autonomy, and the measures against the returning Portuguese citizens...
     
  18. Veras

    Veras Chieftain

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    Brasília. Not the faction.
    D'aquém e D'além Mar would be a great name for Portugal UA. It means, like someone already translated, within and beyound the sea.
     
  19. lp_04

    lp_04 Chieftain

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    Great Idea. The Fifth Empire is also good.

    Genghis, of course it was with the advent of democracy, only in 1974 (last european country to give up the major colonies i think), but the bad management of the recent african states was related to the diversity of cultural groups and to the years of european exploration. That happened in every african country. The bad support is explained by movements on the political orientation of the country (movements that were needed even that only to establish the democracy). It is difficult, after the fall of some autocratic government, to mantain the good sense. We moved from the deep right wind to marxism and then we had to ajust, like a ship in a torbulent ocean. I think 25 April is an expample to the world in many ways, most of them related to liberty in all its forms.

    But this isn-t a place to talk about politics :)

    Portugal is an interesting nation with an interesting culture. Go search about it, our history is quite interesting.
     
  20. Bakspatel

    Bakspatel Chieftain

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    The Netherlands has still some overseas territories, a couple of islands formerly known as the Dutch Antilles but the idea is that they will eventually become independent.

    It is not always cool when it comes to colonial history, actually there aren't even any history lessons about it in school. There still seems to be some sort of taboo on it, the prosperity of the country during the golden age was usually at the disadvantage of those being colonized and people prefer to leave the dirtier parts of a nations history out. And for populist politicians it is always easy to point the finger at the 'colonizer' when something bad happens or the life standards are unequal, there is for example a lot of finger pointing, sometimes even hatred coming from Çuracao directed towards the Netherlands.
     

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