possible to have tanks by 1500?

[Moreknowledge]

I've had 8 games on civ4 and still i'm modifying the way i play and learning new strategies. After reading through countless threads on the forum ive come across one person saying he can get tanks by 1500 (is a date) or another person saying he can get over 1500 beakers in one city alone.
Im curious is this really possible if so how? Maybe there are some threads ive missed in which they explain these strategies in detail so i can give them a try. The best i come up with is around 250 beakers in one city without bureacracy and by 1500 im researching education. Some hints and help would be appreciated in increasing my efficiency in game. Or direct me to some threads which you think would be helpful to me and others.

Im playing on large map on normal.
Thanks...

 

[Galileo44]

The tanks i would bet are some insane AI tech pace + great trading on Deity. the other, the 1500 beaker city would i guess be possible, with a bunch of cottaged floodplains and grasslands with financial city, scientists, great scientists, representation, and all of the science buildings.

 

[The Navy Seal]

I read onetime that one person got gunships before other people had gun units how he did it is he went into the tech adviser and clicked on the tech needed to get gunships.

 

[Moreknowledge]

Hi!!

Is it right to build cottages on floodplains? to be honest i havent ever done that cause i think hmm food and more food..lol Have a few other questions about science output

If i get a great scientist should i wait to make an academy till my beakers is alot higher? or it makes no difference?

Right now my starting point has 10 floodplains, 10 grasslands, 1 rice, 1 pig and 3 plains lol. Im playing as Qin shau Huang. What would you guys do in order to increase science and money output. OR would you go a different route?

Thanks

And lol "the navy seal" is that sarcasm!

 

[Defiant47]

Hi!!

Is it right to build cottages on floodplains? to be honest i havent ever done that cause i think hmm food and more food..lol Have a few other questions about science output

Differing opinions on that... I usually do.

If i get a great scientist should i wait to make an academy till my beakers is alot higher? or it makes no difference?

If you wait to build an academy, it is worse because a whole lot of beakers could have produced extra. The only things to wait for is if you prefer a golden age, or if you're going to use him for a tech when the current tech is undesirable (there's a thread on it, pretty complicated stuff).

 

[IvanCG]

Right now my starting point has 10 floodplains, 10 grasslands, 1 rice, 1 pig and 3 plains lol. Im playing as Qin shau Huang. What would you guys do in order to increase science and money output.

If I remember correctly Qin Shi Huang doesn't have the financial trait, so I would be very sad to have this start without financial

I don't think there is a simple rule to establish how you will improve the tiles. As a general rule, I think it's good to have specialized cities (for production, science and/or GPP). Obviously, you can choose either to produce science or Great Person points in your capital. For science you can chose to build a lot of cottages (starting riverside, I would say) or you can choose to grow your population as much as possible, go for Representation and Caste System and fill the city with scientists. As a side effect they will produce GPP, also.
The problem will be probably the small number of hammers available for buildings.

You can save your starting point and play in different modes in order to see which is better for your conditions (skill, play stile, difficulty level, presence or absence of a wife )

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Ive had 8 games on civ4 and still im modifying the way i play and learning new strategies. After reading through countless threads on the forum ive come across one person saying he can get tanks by 1500 or another person saying he can get over 1500 beakers in one city alone.
Im curious is this really possible if so how? Maybe there are some threads ive missed in which they explain these strategies in detail so i can give them a try. The best i come up with is around 250 beakers in one city without bureacracy and by 1500 im researching education. Some hints and help would be appreciated in increasing my efficiency in game. Or direct me to some threads which you think would be helpful to me and others.

Im playing on large map on normal.
Thanks...

If you're skilled at tech researching, I think getting tanks by 1500 is quite doable. I've certainly had tanks by 1600 on emperor level before now; I think I'm pretty good, but there are still players far better than me out there...

I find 1500 beakers in one city totally implausible on any 'normal' map. Typically, about 30-35 is the most you can hope for in raw beakers (a bit more towards the end game when you have railroads and state property). Various hammer-enhancing buildings can towards the end game get that up to perhaps 150, or 250-ish for spaceship parts. Anyone claiming much more than that and I'd suspect they edited the map

 

[Yeekim]

I find 1500 beakers in one city totally implausible on any 'normal' map. Typically, about 30-35 is the most you can hope for in raw beakers (a bit more towards the end game when you have railroads and state property). Various hammer-enhancing buildings can towards the end game get that up to perhaps 150, or 250-ish for spaceship parts. Anyone claiming much more than that and I'd suspect they edited the map

You are confusing beakers with hammers, right?
What it takes to have a 1500-beaker output in one city?
Well, let us make our assumptions:
Library +25% science
University +25%
Observatory + 25%
Monasteries +70% (huge assumption, but possible nonetheless)This, however, means we cannot count Laboratory in.
Academy +50%
Oxford University +100%
Free Religion + 10%
All in all, +305%
That means, we under those circumstances need 1500/4.05 = ~370 raw beakers to get output of 1500.

Let us continue assuming:
1) we have a capitol city, that has 2 sea squares (small inlet allowing harbor) and 18 cottageable squares in its fat cross.
2) we have a financial civ, running Bureaucracy, Representation and Caste System, in addition to free religion, at 100% science rate.
3) we have built naught but cottages.

How much basic trade does that give us?

Well, 18 towns give: 18 x (5basic + 1financial + 1printing press) = 126. Let's add, say 10 from possible river and 6 from 2 sea squares + 2 from city - this makes 144 basic commerce.
+30 from trade routes is probably realistic. So 174 from basic commerce. Multiplied by 1.5 from Bureaucracy, it gives us 261 raw commerce (= beakers). So we are still about 110 short.

I doubt it is possible to get that much from specialists - even under Representation. 30-40 probably - but not more. Let us take into account, that we can't be past Scientific Method science-wise, so we have been really hard-pressed to grow our population large enough in that short span of time, or to find hammers building every necessary improvement. So yes, it is probably not possible to get that much beakers out from a single city without using Worldbuilder...
Some 1000 however is entirely doable - I recall having made 800-900 myself in the endgame.

EDIT: Well, I might have underestimated commerce from trade: +50 could be closer to it. But even then the goal would require ~80 beakers from scientists, so my conclusion still stands.

 

[Yeekim]

About cottages on floodplains: I believe they are the best option.
Riverside cottages are always worthwhile, especially with financial trait. More important, however, is that if you have lots of floodplains in your fat cross, you will likely have more food you can make use of, before you hit the happiness cap.
Unless of course you like to whip hard - and even then you may have just enough food to regenerate from whipping-unhappiness just in time even without farms.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

You are confusing beakers with hammers, right?

I am indeed. I totally read and wrote that as if MoreKnowledge was talking about hammers, even managing to write 'beakers' in my own post while thinking about hammers.

The amazing things the human brain can do...

 

[Duende]

I am indeed. I totally read and wrote that as if MoreKnowledge was talking about hammers, even managing to write 'beakers' in my own post while thinking about hammers.

The amazing things the human brain can do...

Actually I was thinking that you suggested hammers because you can add a Forge, a Factory, and a Power plant and set the city production to beakers to further increase the beaker production beyond the usual trade-generated beaker production.

 

[Moreknowledge]

Hi guys
Didnt expect so many replies!!!

IvanCG-
Qin Shi Huang doesnt have the financial triat? then how come he does on my game!!! Ive got latest patches for civ 4 and even in the book hes industrial and financial. Maybe your thinking of the other chinese leader.
As you mentioned ive now cottaged all the floodplains,grasslands, etc so im not receiving many hammers so production is slow. Population growth has slowed down so i cant get most of those cottages to be worked on. So im just micromanaging and changing between which ones are to be worked till my population increases and my happiness! When my population does pick up i find i need to stop it as my happiness becomes a problem-to crowded. But to build is slow and ive built theatres, temples and aqueducts. Not much left in construction to help increase happyness.
Ive saved my starting point and i imagine i will play it different ways. Thanks

DynamicSpirit-
I like to think im kinda skilled at tech researching.. even in 1600's and you have tanks!! what path did you take to get there so fast? I know its do-able but how Oh and im talking about research beakers

Yeekim-
Thankyou for your analysis...that seems more realistic and accurate. I have an idea now as what to aim for. Instead of getting stressed from reading some other guy getting 1500 before science method-laboratories etc Im going to try again and will see what happens.
About cottages on floodplains thats something new to me..i kept thinking before- foodplains =farms you know? I always wondered what the other civs were doing building cottages on floodplains lol - Also i dont like to whip unless no i dont!!!

Ill post a screenie of start position so you guys can see

thanks for your replies

 

[paperchase417]

Is it right to build cottages on floodplains?

I like farming a couple but cottaging most. A floodplain with a farm is fantastic for growth, but population means nothing if its not productive. Floodplains with cottages still provide 3 food which is an incentive for your population to work them hard in the early game in effect growing your city and the cottage. So in the mid game you've got a tile thats producing a decent amount of both food and money. Its very versatile.

Its kinda like if your in a city surrounded by hills. Do you mine them or build windmills? Little bit of both so you acheive an effect balance and your city can thrive. Cause theres no sense in having 20 mines and 5 population because theres no food for growth. A few wind mills will help a little.

 

[Invader3K]

I could be wrong, but I think I've had tanks by 1500, at least on the easier settings. I think you need to direct your tech tree to that goal, and it helps if you don't get sidetracked by wars...it can be fun being the peaceable neighbor, and then lining up a horde of tanks on your unsuspecting neighbor's border!

 

[thenooblet22]

A tip, in marathon speed, the research is not very balanced. It is very easy to achieve very unrealistic scientific achievements in short time

 

[BeefontheBone]

Building research with a number of hammer-increasing buildings should be able to make up that 100-odd beakers in a late-game, bureaucratic capital. Bit of a waste most of the time, though. The Great Library with representation's not insignificant either.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

DynamicSpirit-
I like to think im kinda skilled at tech researching.. even in 1600's and you have tanks!! what path did you take to get there so fast? I know its do-able but how Oh and im talking about research beakers

Oooh lots of things. I can't give you a precise research path, as it depends a lot on your situation, but the main things that work for me are:

GamePlay

Micromanage your cities regularly. Use slavery extensively to get your cities established early and get your infrastructure up. Then cottage everywhere like your life depends on it. But make sure you have one or two cities producing a steady supply of great people to lightbulb techs. Keep the great-person-lightbulbing chart at http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/strategy/gp_tech_pref.php to hand (there's a more up-to-date version with some Warlords changes somewhere, but I'm not sure where).
Build appropriate wonders (eg. great library) to help with this. Stay on sufficiently friendly relations with some other civs to be able to trade techs, and keep trading (even if it's selling techs cheap to keep your gold supplies up). Try to manage your research to take advantage of first-to-reach bonuses (liberalism, physics, etc.). Keep your military just barely good enough for defence (or whatever wars you want) while focussing on the techs that help research. Use pacifism for the great people.

Time Management

Play slowly so you don't make mistakes. Don't play in 8 hour+ sessions - stop for breaks, even 2-day breaks to give yourself time to mull over difficult situations.

Learning

The way I learned most of this btw is by playing the games of the month (GOTMs) http://forums.civfanatics.com/forumdisplay.php?f=165. That forces me to play carefully, coz I know more depends on the games, and it makes me read other people's strategies for the same games. GOTMs are now almost the only civ games I play. Joining in those and following those threads is I think the best thing I did for my civ playing (and is the best advice I think I can give )

 

[Bushface]

Oh, confusion ! The figure of 1500 in the OP is a date, not a research output, and being pedantic (as usual) should have been followed by "I'm" not "im".
Tanks by 1500 is just possible. I have got there just once, having been extremely lucky from the beginning with far more huts than usual and their being very generous in handing out techs, coupled with cities making lots of commerce. This was at Noble level; the best I've achieved at Monarch is the early 1600s, but more often around 1700. At Settler ??

 

[Salah-Al-Din]

I read onetime that one person got gunships before other people had gun units how he did it is he went into the tech adviser and clicked on the tech needed to get gunships.

hahahahahaha

 

[Yeekim]

Building research with a number of hammer-increasing buildings should be able to make up that 100-odd beakers in a late-game, bureaucratic capital. Bit of a waste most of the time, though. The Great Library with representation's not insignificant either.

Indeed, I didn't think about turning production into beakers. However, in our case (18 cottaged and 2 sea tiles) there is bound to be virtually no production. (representation, so no hammers from towns) Even if we have a mine or two instead of cottages, this really makes little difference - giving us roughly the same amount of hammers, we'd be getting commerce from a town instead.