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Post liberalism path and civics ?

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by lukep, Jan 9, 2008.

  1. lukep

    lukep Prince

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    On Warlord, I get Liberalism first easily on monarch and most of the time on emperor level. Strong beeline, but i usually can completly backfill with selling at worst edu on the last turn before, and on emperor sometimes lib itself.

    However, my tech lead vanish quickly beyond this point, and especially financial civs out-tech me significantly for a while. As I'm usually able to recover from this point, there must be something utterly wrong in my tech path choices or the civics. And that whether i do a cav rush or not.

    :confused:

    I run usually HE (with an obsolete's style heavy wonder capitol), but it happens also in pure CE or SE.

    I generally choose Nationalism from lib for taj, and then follow chem/railroad path if SE/HE or printing press if CE.

    So, what is the reccomended path at this point ?
     
  2. futurehermit

    futurehermit Deity

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    Well, it depends of course, but if tech is your concern, I have been going democracy->astronomy->superconductors (or computers I guess in warlords)

    This gives you the remaining CE civics and observatories and labs. Can't do too much more for your research beyond that.

    Of course one problem might be not having a large enough empire. Alternatively, if you are playing Obsolete's style, you might not have enough great people being generated (do you run pacificism?) to benefit from representation.
     
  3. madscientist

    madscientist RPC Supergenius

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    I t really depends, but by liberalism I am either going one of two ways, a top notch economy or agressive military.

    Economy: I will take astronomy for free if there is another continent. I play BTS Big/little so it is rare to not have met all AIs and trading without Astronomy. Next is Printing Press, however if you expect a GS then I bulb it. Nationalism if you know you can definitely build it. Civics I switch to FR (unless diplo problems) and usually FS unless I have a wonderspammed capital and run Bur.

    Military: Chemistry is Da Bomb in Warlords, so I would be targeting that. Nationalism is the next best as you can target Military tradion and Cavalry if you have gunpowder.

    Disclaimer: This strat does not work in BTS where Rifling is the military beeline, not military tradition.
     
  4. darrelljs

    darrelljs Immortal

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    The two big booster techs are Democracy for fast cottage growth and Biology for food boost. Constitution is also handy if you are running a lot of specialists. Anyway, depending on the start I will typically prioritize one or the other first. If I get a tropical start and have lots of cottages and enough food to hit my caps, then I got for Democracy (Nationalism is a good pick for Liberalism). If I am near the poles and have food issues, then I will take Astronomy on the way to Biology.

    You really should play with the Guilds/Banking path instead of the Liberalism path. It leads for some fairly different games.

    Darrell
     
  5. lukep

    lukep Prince

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    @future
    yes of course i'm in pacifism. And the Stonehenge/GW/ToA combo get you many settled GPs (at least 8-10 at that point).

    Hmm. i should probably emphasis more astro and the guild/banking. it's true i'm late on those.

    The switch to FR is also one concern, as I 'm using pacifism at that point.
     
  6. Kanorin

    Kanorin Chieftain

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    Take note of the size of your empire. How many cities do you typically have when you hit liberalism? And how many more do you gain after that?

    If you have 5-7 good cities, you can probably beat the AI to liberalism on a regular basis (if you beeline it). However, if the AI is still expanding via wars or land-grabbing after you have stopped expanding, they will probably catch you in tech. You can't expect to keep up if one AI has amassed 12 cities to your 8 and has the infrastructure to support them.

    Do you spend most of your time in Hereditary Rule or in Representation? If you have lots of food and can run some specialists, representation will really help bolster your science.
     
  7. futurehermit

    futurehermit Deity

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    Another question: Do you get Oxford up soon enough? Obsolete plays for 6 cities so that he can put Ox and IW in his capital. Once you get Ed you really want to crank out your universities asap so you get Ox up in your capital. That +25% from the university and then +100% from Oxford really does a number on your research.
     
  8. lukep

    lukep Prince

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    I'm indeed in the 6-8 cities range, prepping for war. I aim for at least 12-16 cities afterward.

    Oxford may be a reason, I try to get it fast, but perhaps not enough.

    I generally dont put IW in capitol
     
  9. OTAKUjbski

    OTAKUjbski TK421

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    I'm a little reluctant to voice this opinion, but this could in itself be part of the problem.

    Even though "land is power", you can certainly find yourself with too much of it. Maintenance costs are exponential (to a point), the best Civics are usually the most expensive and Inflation starts to sting as the game presses on ... so if you're capturing poor-to-mediocre cities, they could be increasing your costs greater than the value they're contributing to the empire.

    Especially towards the endgame when it takes longer to bring cities up to maximum potential, it may not be worth it to keep many of those cities.

    That probably wasn't to say you should always put IW in your capital. It makes logical sense to put it in your best production city.

    It just happens that in Obsolete's WE/SSE style of play, his capital is always his strongest production city.
     
  10. BurN

    BurN Prince

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    If you're having a lot tech problems post-lib, you might want to prioritize:

    - Observatories
    - Oxford
    - Labs

    If you run a SE game beeline biology+labs is an option.
     
  11. Bureaucracy

    Bureaucracy Chieftain

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    If he is doing a wonder economy then that is not a good choice. Computers will obsolete a lot of heavy stuff he has in his capital.
     
  12. InvisibleStalke

    InvisibleStalke Emperor

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    The AIs accelerate a lot in renaissance - particular financial ones. Its not unusual to see Mansa researching techs in 3-4 turns at this time in the game.

    I think its a factor of cottages coming on line combined with a switch to free market. At this time in the game they are usually finished with horizontal expansion and now they are no longer expanding, the tech rate pumps up quickly.

    If you are continuing to expand (through conquest etc) then your tech rate won't pump up until you stop as it takes a while for your new acquisitions to contribute positively. I find that I experience a similar surge with a CE style economy but its usually around the end of renaissance when my wars are over. And then I rapidly recoup any losses on the tech race with my larger land area.

    Possibly its also with their switch to free speech. They may have more towns than you will because the AIs are usually operating larger cities in the early game - and often too many of them which slows down their early game.

    And possibly the advent of free market is a big plus. Since they love each other and have big cities and engage in fairer trade deals with each other (at least I think they do).
     

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