Poterntial Mod of trait

[madscientist]

Financial hasn't been chaned, has it?
CreeDakota: there is no Cre/Cha leader

Financial suggestions:
+1 on tiles with 3 or higher (you need riverside hamlets, gold/silver/gems, or villages to trigger this)
+100% production of Wall Street

Seafaring suggestions:
+1 trade route per city
+2 per trade route
Free Flanking 1 promotion for all Naval Units

Aggressive suggestions:
Free Combat I promotion for all Melee, Mounted, Gunpowder units
+50% for Barracks, Drydock
+100% production of Heroic Epic

Financial benefit is only for land comemrce in MAD's world. I like adding a cheap building to Financial

Seafaring splits the financial.

Agressive is too strong with mounted promotion.

Thanks all for suggestions! At this rate of my modding learning curve I should get this done by the time CIV 7 comes out!

By the way madders out there, does the BUG mod interfere with creating or running a mod???

 

[Ghpstage]

I wan't to try that mod with the Vikings on an archipelago map
A beeline to Feudalism for Vassalage, 4 move galleys and amhipious axes/swords would be awesome.

By the way madders out there, does the BUG mod interfere with creating or running a mod???

If all your doing is XML modding (all changes you propose here can be done this way) I know using BUG won't stop your creating, and I can't see any way it would cause a problem with other modding methods either.
The overwhelming majority of mods can actually be merged to work with with BUG easily. Even if it doesn't work you can always run it instead of BUG.

 

[Fleme]

SO I am considering starting to try and MOD my BTS game once the RPCs are finished. I plan to start this by redoing traits to fit my own taste as well as add 2 that I think are missing.

My thinking is as follows

1) Level out the overpowered economic traits Financial and Philisophical

2) Add abilities, particularly the mid to late game.

3) Alter national wonder production per trait (certain traits get +100% for one NW)

SO here is my trial run at this (Just thinking, modding occurs further down the road).

Charismatic:
-25% XP
+1 happy, +1 happy with monument, +3 happy with broadcast tower (representing three late game wonders)
Double speed Monument, Colosseum
+100% construction of Globe Theater

Industrious
+50% World Wonder Production
Double Forge, Factory, Levee
+100% contruction of Iron Works

Imperialistic
-50% settler
-25% maintenance cost from number of cities CHANGED
-10% reduced hammers for all units CHANGED
Double Jail, Airport CHANGED
+100% Forbidden Palace CHANGED

Reasoning What does imperialistic reflect? It should reflect the tendency to found and then to maintain a vast empire that could very well stretch the world. In my opinion the reduction in city maintenance cost from number of cities would reflect this well and the slight reduction in unit production costs would keep the trait viable throughout the game. Furthermore, the faster production times for Jail and Airport would be later benefits. I also removed the Great General emergence bonus since I don't feel it fits. See aggressive and protective.

Organized
-50% civic upkeep
Double Courthouse, Aqueduct, Public Transportation CHANGED
+100% Oxford

Reasoning Organized should represent civic services and as such beyond law and order I consider public sanitation and transportation logical choices.

Creative
+2 culture
Double theater, library, broadcast tower
+100% Hermitage

Spiritual
No anarchy
double temple
double missionaries WITH a monestary
+100 Red Cross

Protective
Free CG and Drill to archery/gunpowder (same)
double Walls, Castles, Bunkers, Bomb Shelters
Double GG Experience when fighting inside cultural borders CHANGED
+100% Mount Rushmore

ReasoningI feel that protective civs would be better off gaining more experience towards great generals when fighting inside their cultural borders - just like Great Wall.


Financial
+1 commerce per 2 commerce land tile
Double Market, Bank, Corporate Executive
+100% Wall Street

Agressive
free combat 1 to melee, gunpowder, Siege
Double Barracks CHANGED
Double GG Emergence when fighting outside your cultural borders CHANGED
+100% Heroic Epic

Reasoning Drydock is better suited for Seafaring and I feel that great generals should come from aggressive rather than imperialistic. Since the bonus only applies outside your own cultural borders it also represents the "aggressive" feature represented here. Furthermore, the combat 1 for siege, while it's not a big deal it would still represent aggressive warfare since siege is only used offensively.

Philosophical
+50% to GPP
double Monastery, University CHANGED
+100% National Epic

Reasoning Where does philosophy come from? It comes from scholars. At the lack of a school or an academy which you can build, I do believe that religions monasteries should represent philosophy since a lot of ideals have historically spurred from them. Furthermore University seems like a logical choice since it's a place of learning.

Expansive
+2 health
+50% worker production
double Granary, Grocer, Hospital, Recycling Plant CHANGED <- Minor tweak
+100% National Park

Seafaring (NEW)
+2 commerce for water tiles
Naval units start with Combat I, Flanking I
double Lighthouse, Harbor, Customs House, Drydock CHANGED
+100% Moai Statues

Reasoning Drydock belongs with Seafaring rather than Agressive, so do naval bonuses.

Secretive (NEW) CHANGED <- formerly Diplomatic/Espionage
+2 ep from Barracks, CourthouseCHANGED
AI forgets past transgressions twice as fast CHANGED
Increased chance to capture enemy spies CHANGED
Automatically gain knowledge of technologies known by 5 (depending on mapsize, this is Standard) other civilizations CHANGED
Double Intelligence Agency, Security Bureau, Spy

Reasoning Does this seem overpowered? I don't really know, since I don't use espionage at all. I just feel like that whenever I do try to play it, it goes wrong on so many ways. Either way, I feel like perhaps these abilities would make the trait interesting and if someone like Tokugawa would be Secretive, atleast with the fact that he'd gain knowledge of techs known by 5 others would certainly help his game.

That's how I'd tweak them. Just my personal opinions - maybe you can use some of them.

 

[PieceOfMind]

Industrious
+50% World Wonder PRoduction
Double Forge, Factory, Levee
+100% contruction of Iron Works

This looks way too powerful, especially compared with Protective and Creative (Really, who wants +100% on Hermitage?).

+100% on Iron Works is a huge boost, and adding Levees to the mix sent it over the top of what's balanced IMO.

 

[ViterboKnight]

I'd rather split the Financial trait in two, one for gold, the other for science. These two traits could be Financial (same name, but completely different effect, for example giving +15% gold, and +100% production for banks) and Scientific (analogue for science and universities).

 

[madscientist]

This looks way too powerful, especially compared with Protective and Creative (Really, who wants +100% on Hermitage?).

+100% on Iron Works is a huge boost, and adding Levees to the mix sent it over the top of what's balanced IMO.

I plat at emperor alot and find Industrious lacking after metal casting as you cannot get all that many wonders all the time. Adding the levee and factory I think balance out the trait and removing the 50% National Wonder production bonus well ofsets the high IronWorks bonus.

Protecitve has double speed on 5 buildings, that's enough!

I agree on Creative and need a mid-level boost here. It's way powerful early but needs more than broadcast towers late.

 

[madscientist]

I'd rather split the Financial trait in two, one for gold, the other for science. These two traits could be Financial (same name, but completely different effect, for example giving +15% gold, and +100% production for banks) and Scientific (analogue for science and universities).

Phil has become more science with the fast Obs/Lab and reduced GPP prouction. The faster OXford helps.

I still like the commerce bonus for financial as you have to work the land smartly rather than a flat gold bonus.

 

[Antilogic]

I gotta give the OP a big compliment--I have never seen the idea of each trait granting +100% production to a single national wonder before, and I really like it. I think I might borrow this idea.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Adding +2 BASE and an extra trade route in every single city is excessively dangerous . We might start seeing 1100's AD infantry like Snaaty showed us before BTS nerfed trade routes.

 

[madscientist]

So after learing teh art of modding XMLs I have actually managed to alter all the traits plus add the 2 New ones. A very interesting experience as some things were very easy (such as speed of national wonders) while others extremely difficult (figuring the commerce of SeaFaring). Still an entertaining exercise and I plan to play these when I have the time.

Right now I ask for a critical evaluation of how balanced these traits are. Obviously things like Philosophical still favors research while Agressive, well

Charismatic:
-25% XP
+1 happy, +1 happy with monument, +1 happy with Colloseum, +1 happy with broadcast tower
Double speed Braodcast Tower, Colesium
+100% construction of Globe Theater

Industrious
+1 hammer per 4 hammer tile
+25% World Wonder Production (AND ONLY WORLD WONDERS)
Double Forge, Factory, levee
+100% contruction of Iron Works

Imperialistic
+ 100% GG
+50% settler production
double speed Stable, Airport
+100% WestPoint

ORG
-50% upkeep
Double Courthouse, Market, Public Transportation
+100% Forbidden Palace

Creative
+2 culture
Double theater, library
+50% production to Cathedrals
+100% Hermitage

Spiritual
No anarchy
double temple, double missionaries
+100 Red Cross

Protective
+100% Great General Production within Cultural borders (A very neat, already set feature in the traitsfile but apparently not used).
Free CG and Drill to archery/gunpowder (same)
double Walls, castles, bunkers, bomb shelters
+100% Mount Rushmore

Financial
+1 commerce per 3 commerce tile (thus seatiles do not provide a financial benefit unless you have the Colossus)
double bank, corporate executives
+100% Wall Street

Aggressive
free combat 1 to melee, gunpowder, Naval
Double barracks, drydocks
+100% Heroic Epic

Philosophical
+2 beakers per city
+50% to GPP
double university, observatory, lab
+100% Oxford

Expansive
+2 health
+50% worker production
double granery, aqueduct, grocer, Hospital (no culture bonus)
+100% National Park

Sea-Faring (NEW)
50% increase in final trade route yield (after modifiers)
Free flanking I to navy
double lighthouse, harbor, custom house
+100% Maori

Secrative (NEW)
+1 food/5 food tile
+1 ep per city
double Jail, Agency, Bureau, Spy
+100% National Epic

My goal was to weaken Fin/Phil/ORG early games and strengthen them later

I boosted the weaker IMP, PROT, EXP traits

Also, some of the National Wonders doubles speed add alot of benefit to some traits more than others.

There is some exceptional Synergy for certain leaders. Genghis has a great war-machine with fast Gers. And SeaFaring/Agressive Ragnar is a monster on teh OCean, as Vikings should be.

Looking for some honest opinions on the balancing of this.

I will also post a list of the leaders with my preferred trait combos which are certainly open for discussion.

 

[madscientist]

Here are how I plan to adjust the leaders at the moment (SEA=SeaFaring and SEC=Secrative)

FDR ORG/IND (same)
Washington CHA/EXP (same)
Lincoln CHA/PHI (same)
Genghis AGG/IMP (same)
Kublai AGG/CRE (same)
Shaka AGG/EXP (Same)
Cathy IMP/CRE (same)
Peter SEC/Phi (NEW)
Stalin AGG/SEC (NEW)
Victoria SEA/FIN (New)
Liz PHI/FIN (same)
Churchill (PRO/CHA (same)
Agustus IND/IMP (same)
Julius ORG/IMP (same)
Charlemagne PRO/IMP (same)
Justinian SEA/IMP (NEW)
Sal SPI/PRO (same)
Hatty SPI/CRE (Same)
Ramesses IND/SPI (same)
Mansa SPI/FIn (Same)
Zara CRE/ORG (same)
MONTY AGG/SPI (same)
Hyuna IND/Fin (same)
Sitting Bull PRO/EXP (changed but not new civics)
Pacal EXP/Fin (same)
Qin IND/PRO (same)
Mao SEC/PRO (NEW)
Asoka SPI/ORG (same)
Gandi SPI/PHI (same)
Sury SEC/EXP (NEW)
Darius SEA/FIN (NEW)
Cy IMP/CHA (same)
Mehmed ORG/EXP (same)
Suliman IMP/PHI (same)
Napolean CHA/ORG (same)
DeGaulle SEC/IND (NEW)
Lou IND/CRE (same)
Ragnar SEA/AGG (NEW)
Toku PRO/AGG (same)
Issabella SPI/SEA (NEW)
Jaoa SEA/EXP (NEW)
Hammarabi SEC/ORG (NEW)
Glgamesh SEC/CRE (NEW)
Alexander SEA/PHI (NEW)
Pericles CRE/PHI (same)
Hannibal SEA/CHA (NEW)
Boudica AGG/CHA (same)
Brennus SEC/CHA (NEW)
Willem SEA/CRE (NEW)
Bismark IND/EXP (same)
Fred ORG/PHI (same)
Wang PRO/FIN (same)

My plan is NOT have any doubles or trait combos and spread each trait out (about 8 leaders per trait).

Please let know if you see any real bad combos or have better suggestions!

Thanks

 

[Stewie0416]

First off, what is SEC? (Secretive???)
Second, nice job with the balancing. I was looking forever for a IND/SEA leader. GLH itself would produce a free village!

If you put this up for download I'll definitely get it!

 

[Arran]

Does this mean you're going to go through and redo all the RPC challenges with the new traits?

 

[UWHabs]

I think Charismatic is too strong. Adding extra happy with the Coliseum gives really big happy caps early with only a few (cheap) buildings. It's already strong early game.

Charlemagne will be a tough turtle to crack. +150% GG inside borders (do you still have the default +100% inside cultural borders that comes with the game?). Tough.

I still think Industrious could use a boost. I know boosting Ironworks is nice, but something else to help it out. Is giving +1 hammer to workshops too strong? The wonder bonus and forge bonus are big early game traits, and giving a hammer boost to workshops would certainly make it a late game menace.

Thinking of philosophic, I think you weakened it too much. The GPP bonus is good early, but only giving it cheap observatories and labs late I'm not sure balances it. Maybe having an observatory give a free specialist? That would certainly be a nice boost in the late game.

Imp and Seafaring both have lighthouse bonuses. What about a change for Imperialist to instead of the lighthouse bonus, could you give it like -50% colony maintenance? That would certainly fit the Imperialist stance of setting up shop in every corner of the world.

Just some late night thoughts.

 

[Jamuka]

Charismatic - Remove double monuments. It would be rediculous because of gold overflow. +70 every time you make a monument? Not necessary. Charismatic is amazing anyway.

Industrious - This has always been one of the weaker traits...

Financial - double banks AND wall street?? The commerce bonus change wouldnt make a difference on land anyway. Shaving so many turns off getting wall street may be overkill.

Philosophical - This is way too much of a nerf. +50% GPP isn't 50% more GP, it's closer 20%.

Seafaring - I have a feeling this trait is going to be completely rediculous. I think financial is supposed to be seafaring, and it does a fine job of that.

Protective is still terrible, and diplomatic seems underpowered. It's been suggested to give extra EP to protective.

 

[ViterboKnight]

Protective: fortified units can add up defensive bonus for 1 extra turn, so up to +30% in 6 turns. It requires to edit SDK, but it's very simple.

 

[PieceOfMind]

Protective: fortified units can add up defensive bonus for 1 extra turn, so up to +30% in 6 turns. It requires to edit SDK, but it's very simple.

Isn't that just an XML change? It's something like MAX_FORTIFY_TURNS in Globaldefines.

 

[SGDave]

I'll definately try this out once you release it! My thoughts and ideas, bear in mind i'm a prince level player

Charismatic - Agree with Jamuka, remove double monuments

Industrious - Seems ok

Imperialistic - I like the idea JFleme posted above, but without the -10% for all units
Otherwise, I think something extra late game is needed

Organized - With no cheap factories, something extra needed late game.
How about a benefit to do with drafting: Infantry takes off only 1 pop to draft (too strong? ), can draft at lower population (size 5?), reduced draft unhappiness?

Creative - Seems ok

Spiritual - Double missionaries seems too strong to me.
Make it conditional, say double missionaries with monastary and org rel. How about double monastaries?

Protective - Seems ok, but maybe something extra is still needed. One idea: worker double speed building of forts?

Financial - Seems ok

Agressive - Seems ok. What about an extra promotion for aircraft?

Philosophical - Agree with Jamuka that 50% GPP seems like a big nerf, needs something to compensate. What about a benefit like +10% science modifier in all cities? But that might be too strong...

Expansive - Maybe needs a cheap building or something else late game...

Sea Faring - Looks super strong for any map with water, guess that is the point

Espionage - No opinion, see how it plays i guess.

 

[ViterboKnight]

This will affect every traits. If you want this only to be applied for protective leaders, you should change the SDK (function CvUnit.setFortifyTurns).

 

[PieceOfMind]

This will affect every traits. If you want this only to be applied for protective leaders, you should change the SDK (function CvUnit.setFortifyTurns).

Oh yes, you're absolutely right.