Practical Implementation of Landmines

[A Viking Yeti]

You can't let them use transports, will freeze the game. Unless you mean land transports, which the AI can't use. Also, I think you should have Hid. Nat. and invisible, so the AI wouldn't be able to go straight for them... ...Unless you have other units who see invisible units, in which case this may be a problem. I would give them Hid. Nat. simply because you don't have to be at war with someone for your landmines to still kill people (also angering the country you placed them in).

 

[Vuldacon]

A Viking Yeti... Yes, I mean Land Transports...not Water Transports. Water Transports will also work but because land mines are set as immobile, if anyone tries to unload them to land (which would require that they Move), it would crash the game.They could be Unloaded inside a City but the AI does not understand this. Land Transports are doing the "Unloading" in this case...not the Land Mine Moving. The Land Transports would just be for the Human Player but the AI will use the Airdrop very well so this is a good way to use them and have the AI use them too.

IF you set Hiddin Nationality, the AI will go straight for them...because as I said, Barbarians have this setting. Just set them invisible.
In any CIV III Game, watch the AI go straight into the darkness after the Barbarian Camps

 

[swift_like_wind]

If the unit is flagged as immobile, can it still be loaded into a sea transport from within the city? If it had 0 movement, can it still airdrop?

 

[Vuldacon]

If the unit is flagged as immobile, can it still be loaded into a sea transport from within the city? If it had 0 movement, can it still airdrop?

swift_like_wind... Yes, Immobile just means that the Unit itself does not Move. Think of Loading as someone else loading the Unit
A Unit must have a Move to be able to Airdrop.

 

[Virote_Considon]

You should NOT allow units flagged with "Immobile" to be able to load, else the turn times will go incredibly long!

 

[Keroro]

If the unit is flagged as immobile, can it still be loaded into a sea transport from within the city? If it had 0 movement, can it still airdrop?

You should NOT allow units flagged with "Immobile" to be able to load, else the turn times will go incredibly long!

Virote is correct, immobile units having the load flag is a common cause of lags and lock ups. I assume that the airdrop ability would be OK though, and I think that it's been used with mines before. EDIT - just re-read Vuldacon's post - I think you can airdrop without a move, IIRC you need an operational range to airdrop.

Virote - Nice new Avatar, more colourful than we're used to.

 

[19Delta]

I like the concept. Especially the obstacle. After all, that's what we really use mines for in an actual combat situation. They may get a few people or a vehicle here or there, but the real purpose is to make the enemy go where we want them to go. Yes combat engineers are the ones usually emplacing the mine field however, if they are flagged to transport said minefield, then you can't transport them in a ship overseas. Just another reason why the editor needs a massive update. I only wish the guys at Firaxis weren't so greedy, maybe then they would be willing to help us make civ III the great game that it's meant to be.

 

[Vuldacon]

just re-read Vuldacon's post - I think you can airdrop without a move, IIRC you need an operational range to airdrop.

Keroro... You Must set at least 1 move for a Unit. 0 will not work in the Editor. This one of the Reasons for the Immobile Setting.

Virote_Considon... as for flagging Land Mines to Load, this has not caused any long turn times but should not Load in water Transports because Land Mines themselves cannot Unload due to being immobile. This is what will cause Long Turn Times and possible crashes. The AI will tend to use the Airdrop for them but Humans are the Ones who will also use Land Transports such as Cars and Trucks. The Problem is Water Transports and that is difficult to get around if the Land Mines are set to Load in Land Transports intended for Human Players.

 

[The Last Conformist]

Virote_Considon... as for flagging Land Mines to Load, this has not caused any long turn times but should not Load in water Transports because Land Mines themselves cannot Unload due to being immobile. This is what will cause Long Turn Times and possible crashes. The AI will tend to use the Airdrop for them but Humans are the Ones who will also use Land Transports such as Cars and Trucks. The Problem is Water Transports and that is difficult to get around if the Land Mines are set to Load in Land Transports intended for Human Players.

A possibility would be flagging marine transports as "Transport only foot" while making all mobile units, but not the immobiles, "Foot" units.

 

[Vuldacon]

A possibility would be flagging marine transports as "Transport only foot" while making all mobile units, but not the immobiles, "Foot" units

The Last Conformist... That will work but if Land Transports are used and intended to carry Only Foot Units, the Cars and Trucks, for example, need to be set with the Carry Only Foot Units setting. The Land Mines then need to have the Foot Unit setting to Load in the land transports.

The "Load" issue for Land Mines was a problem with CIV III and caused crashes when the AI or player tried to Unload them to Land from a Water Transport but I have not seen any problem with Conquest. When testing this, I placed Land Mines in water transports and then tried to have them Unload to land in order to test possible crashes, etc... Nothing happens, the land Mines simply do not Unload to land. They will Unload inside a "City" but this is because they are Unloaded rather than moving themselves as they would have to do if they left a Water Transport to move to land.

Land Transports work well because the Transport Unloads them where they are and can also retrieve them. The AI does not "understand" this setting concerning "Land Transports" but will use Airdrop very well.

The Only possible problem would be if the AI loads the Land Mines in a Water Transport and then tries to Unload them to land...this could cause a longer turn time due to the lack of understanding the Setting but I personally have not seen this. I only know that it has not caused any Crashes using Conquest and a Human Player can use the Land Transports for them. Water Transports can also be used but the Land Mines have to be Unloaded inside a "City".
I like that the AI will use Land Mines effectively with Airdrop..so players can set the Distance they want the Mines to Airdrop for the AI and themselves.

It is too bad that the AI does not understand how to use the Land Transports
but I understand the Reason why the AI does not Understand Load and Unload for any Immobile Unit that is meant to be a stationary Unit. Generally it is Immobile Aircraft that stay inside a "City" other than a run during their turn. Rebase is understood for Immobile units but not Load and
Unload...mainly because an Immobile Unit cannot Move

 

[swift_like_wind]

Originally posted by Vuldacon

The "Load" issue for Land Mines was a problem with CIV III and caused crashes when the AI or player tried to Unload them to Land from a Water Transport but I have not seen any problem with Conquest. When testing this, I placed Land Mines in water transports and then tried to have them Unload to land in order to test possible crashes, etc... Nothing happens, the land Mines simply do not Unload to land. They will Unload inside a "City" but this is because they are Unloaded rather than moving themselves as they would have to do if they left a Water Transport to move to land.

This was something I was about to test until I just read your post!! Coincidence, I think not.

If this is true, land transports can be implemented for landmines without the threat of game crashing. However, as already said, the only concern is the AI trying to unload mines from boat to land.

 

[Vuldacon]

If this is true, land transports can be implemented for landmines without the threat of game crashing. However, as already said, the only concern is the AI trying to unload mines from boat to land.

swift_like_wind... If you use Conquest, this does not seem to cause a problem but the AI will not use Land Transports for them. They will use Airdrop so the Best way is to set Land Transports and Airdrop so at least a human Player can use the Land Transports. Both the AI and the Human Player can use the Airdrop.
Another way would be to simply use Airdrop ONLY. The main reason to use Land Transports is to have the ability to transport the Land Mines to areas where they are wanted and also be able to Retrieve them.
IF Airdrop is set with a Greater Distance, that could suffice to be able to place the Land Mines basically where wanted but they could not be retrieved.
Yet another way to Retrieve them would be to set Rebase.
A Land Unit set with Rebase can Go to any Owned Building from any Place on the map. The AI does not tend to use this setting for Land Units as it is for Immobile Aircraft...so at least a Human could use the setting. The Problem is that this setting allows a player to instantly retrieve the unit without any other unit needed. This is quite Powerful for Land Units for this reason...one could have a Unit almost dead and simply Rebase to a "City" to save it. This is a Good Setting for Human Units that are of Great Importance or one of a Kind "Special Units".

Generally, Airdrop is best for Land Mines and I like to use the Land Transports for the Human Player at least so I use Both settings. IF the AI does try placing them in Water Transports and then tries to Unload them to Land, they will not be able to. This is the Only thing about setting "Load" that could cause more of a Hesitation during the AIs Turn if it does at all. I have not seen any hesitation but this could be due to the AI not having many water Transports. The AI Loves the Airdrop with them and also will use them inside the "City" for Defense.
...Best to experiment as to what Attack/Defense and Hit Points you want for a particular Game. All Depends on the General Unit Strengths and Hit Points as well as how you want the Land Mine to perform.

 

[swift_like_wind]

Interesting, I had thought of giving land mines Rebase so they could go to different cities, but I never knew land units could Rebase from anywhere to own buildings. You could use this for something like a "Houdini" unit

It would be more realistic to make it so land mines are not retrievable. In the real world, they can be disarmed, but I don't think they can be retrieved in working order and reused.

I would like to know how long do you have to wait if the AI attempts to unload a mine from a sea transport to land.

On a side note, for naval mines, can you make a sea transport transport another sea unit?

 

[A Viking Yeti]

Airlift, Airdrop, defensive bombard, invisible, hidden nationality, no load, immobile, low def and attack, ZOC, and offensive AI flag. Worked for me on the latest patch of PTW. AI paradrops them at me, and, due to hidden nationality, pisses off surrounding nations that accidentally stumble upon them. They always get destoyed, but tend to inflict considerable damage first. ZOC makes them feel more like fields. This only causes problems if you have other land units that utilize the see invisible flag. Then you end up with suicide bombers left and right.

 

[A Viking Yeti]

Interesting, I had thought of giving land mines Rebase so they could go to different cities, but I never knew land units could Rebase from anywhere to own buildings. You could use this for something like a "Houdini" unit

It would be more realistic to make it so land mines are not retrievable. In the real world, they can be disarmed, but I don't think they can be retrieved in working order and reused.

I would like to know how long do you have to wait if the AI attempts to unload a mine from a sea transport to land.

On a side note, for naval mines, can you make a sea transport transport another sea unit?

Don't quote me on this but I believe I've tried it before and the AI wouldn't use it. I think the AI considers the naval transport flag to imply naval transport for land units exclusively.

 

[swift_like_wind]

In Conquests v1.22, you have to have load and capture flagged on land units to give them offense flag.

On a side note, can a unit with 2 rate of fire do 2 damage during defensive bombard?

 

[swift_like_wind]

But is it possible in any way to make a sea unit load into a sea unit?

 

[Quinzy]

I don't think you can do that, no

 

[Vuldacon]

swift_like_wind... Naval Units are considered "Boats" by the Hard Coded Factors for the Game Engine so No, You cannot Load Naval Units into other Naval Units. Boats do not "Load" into Boats so to speak.

...as for how long would a player have to wait IF the AI tries to Unload a Land Mine to Land...I do Not know because as I said, I have never seen this in any of my games using the Land Mines with Both Land Transport (Load) and Airdrop Settings.

You would need to set it up and then use Debug Mode to see what the AI does. Again, I do not see any big problem using the Land Mines with either or Both Land Transports and Airdrop settings. I am positive the AI Loves the Airdrop and that they will not use the Land Transports IF this helps you with what you want to do.

 

[swift_like_wind]

Ok. The reason I inquired as to how long I'd have to wait is for 2 reasons:

a) I don't waist time
b) My computer is slow and if it gets stuck in one task (ie AI trying to unload landmine to land) it will freeze