Pre-Invitation to a long-term, epic, huge roleplaying game

[Capsavian]

Update 7-6-08:
Chaos and Civility II is in the planning stages! Read more on Page 6 of this thread.




Update 8-23-07:
All 18 spots are now spoken for--anyone else who is interested are still welcome to register and sit as alternates though. Thank you for your interest in this game!

Discussions on this game will probably shift to the dedicated forums now, so if you are one of the "Chosen 18" be sure to subscribe to each board by clicking the "notify" button in the upper-right of each.


Update 8-22-07:
The Chaos and Civility forum is www.chaosciv.com and the thread to post in is
http://www.chaosciv.com/index.php/topic,2.new.html . Good luck!

Update 8-21-07: Tomorrow I will be announcing the link to the new forums for Chaos and Civility. The link will be posted in this thread, on Wednesday, August 22 at noon MT (GMT-7).

Update 8-19-07: a new forum is going to be set up this week, dedicated to this game. The first 17 players to sign up for an account and post at the new forums will be designated a spot in the game. Please stay tuned for an announcement with the forum link.

My idea for this game is to be one that isn't necessarily just about warfare (although there is no getting around conflict, of course). This game would be aimed at more mature players who want to engage in a little bit of roleplaying, political intrigue, and exploring how Civ IV can be used as a basis for a long-term strategic roleplaying game of sorts. And when I say "long-term" I mean a year or maybe longer!

I am looking at launching this probably sometime in early September or so (to give everyone a little time to learn BtS and to get those patches once they arrive--there are critical bugs needing smashing). A few highlights:

EDIT: Options in GREEN have been more or less decided upon.
EDIT: Options in RED are still undecided; please post your preferences.

• Start date for this game will probably end up being the first or second week of September 2007, unless many major bugs are still left unpatched even at that time.
• This will be hosted on a dedicated laptop "game server" nothing fancy, but it will be available 24/7, on battery backup and with a reliable broadband connection.
• This game will be meant to be a long-term commitment; this game may well last over a year, depending on how aggressive players are and how many factions form to counter-balance those aggressive players.
• I am dedicated to seeing this game through to the end; it will NOT end right when you are starting to get your empire built up! Well, not unless I get hit by a bus or trampled by a camel. Yes, that means even if I get killed off in the midst of the game, I will still continue hosting it (although I hope that doesn't happen!).
• I will set up separate forums for this game so each nation can have their own sub-forum (embassy) where they may post "news" and publicly announce treaties and pacts if they so wish. I'm planning to write SimCity-style newspapers coming from my country.
• CivStats.com will be used, to aid in the notifications and review of global points stats (trying to keep everything fair; you will know everything that I as the game host will know).
• 18 players total, all human.
• Huge map, Hemispheres, 3 continents with islands, Varied shape, medium sea level, temperate climate, cylindrical wrap. Players can mix and match leaders/civs, and multiple picks of the same leader are allowed. Note: a patch is needed for the pitboss, as this option is currently broken, however.
• Epic game speed (so units won't become obsolete before you have a chance to use them!)
• "No tech brokering" will be enabled -- thus, you can trade only techs you've researched.
• All victory conditions will be allowed, although hopefully this will not result in someone pulling off too early of a victory. The goal is to keep this game going, not to rush through it.
• Turns will be 20hours long, simultaneous.
• Advanced Start, in Ancient Era
• Advanced Start: 1500 points? Or should it be more/less?
• No predesignated teams, although you can of course form alliances if you wish.
• Early rushing will be discouraged--but not illegal--for the first millennium or so, to allow newer players a chance at survival against ultra-early rushing. You won't be kicked from the game if you do rush, although please understand that beating up newbies is not the intent of this particular game.
• Vassal States allowed; goody huts off (unbalances a MP game); Barbarians enabled (not raging though); city flipping allowed; city razing allowed; cylindrical map wrap; AI takeover allowed (in case a player quits, we can invite another human to take over).

Game specs are subject to discussion, so I am just proposing these as a starting point.

I am asking people to post here if they are interested in joining such a game. Since I don't have any set start date, I realize it's hard for someone to commit to this so far in advance, but I'm basically just wanting to get a feel for whether or not there are actually people interested in committing to a long-term game with a bit of roleplaying thrown in.

I would also be interested in your input; what would you like to see added to a game such as what I am describing, to make it more fun and unique?

 

[Sonnybonds]

Sounds good!!! i like to join.
For settings no epic plz. nothing happens in the first months at all. normal or quick are my favorite speed settings.

 

[Darius_Silva]

I'm interested to join although I haven't BST yet. Probably going to buy it though...

 

[whiplash_CDC]

Epic is just too slow. I'm in one now and I'm sure it won't end in just one year. Epic speed guarentees at least three months of total boredom.

I've been hosting a WL PitBoss since October and 5 of the original 12 players are still alive. That one is running on normal speed and will surely go over a year unless the 5 remaining players negotiate some kind of end-of-game condition.

Right now Advanced Starts is bugged in BtS. People have discovered an exploit that allows them to build virtually unlimited gold in the first few turns.

I understand what you mean by saying tech trading unbalances the game; but with no TT one of the more interesting aspects of the game is removed. With 18 players having many opportunities for early meeting we may get a balanced game for the majority of players. Certainly some players will be screwed by an isolated city placement. One thing I am considering for my first BtS pitboss is to use locked alliances so that it's a team game from the start. Maybe 8 teams of 2 players, or 5 teams of 3.

Accelerated start in real-time is a nice idea; but tough to pull off with 18 players.

I'll play when you are ready.

 

[big Deezy]

count me in!!!

 

[ForesterSOF]

I have BTS and what you want meets my personality likes and dislikes fine.

 

[Capsavian]

Thanks for posting, guys. Glad to see there is some interest out there for a game like this!

As for the game speed, I think that the boredom will be negated by having an accelerated start; 3-4 hours gets a person through to maybe the middle ages, or for sure at least to iron working.

The reasons I was leaning toward Epic speed:

1) I purposely want this game to be long-running; we take so long to build up our beautiful empires, it's a shame to have to discard them so quickly.

2) This game isn't necessarily going to be about "winning" in the traditional sense; I am sincerely hoping it can turn into something of an epic roleplaying game. I am picturing alliances forming and fracturing, trade embargos, etc.

3) If ever the game does feel like it's gotten boring, the players always will have the option of voting on a diplomatic victory. I don't think this would get boring though, personally.

Basically, it's not going to be the usual game of rushing to conquer and trampling your neighbors for no good reason, I'm hoping. I am hoping we will have a little more diplomatic angle than that.

Thank you for telling me about the Advanced Start bug. I hope they will get that fixed in the next patch (another reason not to start this game until later!)

But like I said, I am certainly open to suggestions and feedback, so I appreciate the input!

EDIT: Regarding accelerated start and folks not all being able to be there at the same time, my thoughts were that if a player is unable to attend, the AI will just have to run their civ until they can join.

 

[ForesterSOF]

For safety I will que as much as possible and log on 2/day in the beginning for I have strange work hours and days off.

 

[failedreality]

I would be interested as well...

~fr

 

[LordRahl]

Just to give you an idea. I've hosted a couple Normal speed games, with only two human players, and those usually take 2 months each (Spaceship victories). And that's with moving about twice a day and a few real-time couple hour sessions thrown in the beginning to speed through the boring nothing happens turns.
With 18 civs you can pretty much forget about real-time sessions, at least until the very end. That means you can calculate how long the actual game will take. I'm pretty sure for Normal time it's 400 turns, which with 2 turns a day ends up being 200 days, which is about half a year. With pitboss and 18 players, that means at least a year on normal speed, and probably 2 years on Epic. A little too long if you ask me.

 

[Capsavian]

I've hosted quite a few games as well...all on Epic Speed, however all also included at least 4 hours of accelerated start, too. I think that is the key, as it quickly gets everyone through the slow, boring portion of the game. After four hours, you've generally met everyone on your continent at least, and for many they are finally ready for their first wars.

I've only played with 5 total humans before though; having 18 humans will probably mean that 4 hours of accelerated start would get us just barely to the middle ages, maybe.

But even so, one can hammer away a good 100 or so turns, before switching to daily turn-based play.

I dunno...I still think that if the first 100 or so turns are tackled that first day of play, it's not unrealistic to play at Epic Speed with 20-hour turn clock (simultaneous turns, of course).

 

[Gozer]

I would be interested in a big game as well.

However, Epic is going to be very tough with 18 players.

Acceleration would work, but if we're not all within a 4/5 timezone span of each other finding even a 1 hour block of time everyone can agree on will likely be next to impossible with 18 players. And, with that many players you can count on almost every turn taking the maximum time alloted.

 

[ForesterSOF]

I am GMT-7 but play at GMT+3 with thurs and Fri off.

 

[Rhuarc]

I would be interested in something like this! Any ideas on when this may come about?

 

[Sonnybonds]

I agree with many people here. Make speed normal its better then epic. Makes the game more interresting and doesnt make units useless so quick.
about a fast start: that would be great. I hope its gonna work out.

 

[Rhuarc]

I agree with many people here. Make speed normal its better then epic. Makes the game more interresting and doesnt make units useless so quick.
about a fast start: that would be great. I hope its gonna work out.

Wouldn't it be the other way around? Normal speed moves quicker through the game so units will become obsolete faster.

Am I just confused?

 

[Capsavian]

You're not confused--Epic Speed means the units become obsolete slower (compared to Normal Speed).

I hear what everyone is saying...I'm loathe to set up a game that will be boring, of course, but at the same time I rather like the thought of a game that does take a year to complete--gives us time to get to know each other, build alliances, etc. In particular, this gives us the chance to really play on the roleplaying aspects.

As to WHEN this will start, it will probably be sometime in mid-August at the soonest. I want to wait until after the next patch is released, as there are reportedly quite a few bugs, and it would be good to get those smashed first.

What about this, guys: Advanced Start with 1500 or so points (on Epic Speed, that means about three cities and a couple techs, give or take), PLUS an accelerated start of two or three hours minimum.

Yes, I know it will be tough to get a time set up that works for everyone, which is why we will probably just have to set the game up, give everyone 24 hours to implement their Advanced Start choices, and then let the AI run any civs where the owners aren't able to join in for the accelerated start period.

Not perfect, I know, but it will be impossible to set up an accelerated start for 18 players, otherwise.

 

[JMaltman]

I've been looking for just such a game, and I like all of your settings - but I'd also recommend tech trading ON - you're appealing to a little more diplomacy and builder tendencies rather than RTS early rushers, so its less likely to get extremely unbalanced due to TT.

You'll have to think carefully about whether you want Permanent Alliances. They're a neat feature, but one that had a HUGE impact in the late game of one Fast speed PTBS I've been in, where once one guy made a permanent alliance, 2 others formed almost immediately for defensive purposes, and that initiated World War III.

 

[Troymk1]

I'm very interested. Nothing wrong with an Epic Game as long as we do an advanced Start. Note that with advanced Start there is also a non-aggression pact in place for 10 turns at start so that may well be enough?

In the current game I am in I randomly got the Mongols. We played inland sea. I am the &*((*^$ who started hostilities basically at the turn from BC to AD.

 

[OverloadUT]

I might be interested in this.

However, have you considered using the new "only trade techs you research" tech trading option in BtS? When I saw that option I thought it would be perfect for multiplayer games. That a a civ that concentrates on research still has a bargaining chip.