Preferred Ottoman leader?

[MantaRevan]

I'm starting a new game as the Ottomans and I'm wondering which of these two(Mehmed and Suleiman) you guys have had more success with.

 

[Izuul]

I prefer Suleiman, but Mehmed is good too.

 

[oranje willem]

Mehmed has better traits, imo.

 

[Izuul]

Really? Imperialistic isn't great, but Philo is probably #1b when discussing the best traits in the game. It works well for Suleiman too because he doesn't start with Fishing and can bulb Machinery and Engineering.

 

[Strickl3r]

I prefer Suleiman, but Mehmed is good too.

#2

Mehmed has better traits, imo.

On lower difficulties this is probably true, since you can expand like the plague.
Since the ottomans start with AG/TW both are obv very good.



Normally i don't like imperialistic so much, but on Suleiman it's very nice. It has somewhat of a synergy with the starting techs imo, because it's a fast start+fast settlers.

€: What makes Suleiman better, is obv the combination AG/TW and the Philosophical trait.

 

[lymond]

I consider Mehmed a top leader

 

[Izuul]

He is, but a good portion of what makes him a top leader (starting techs, UB) is also shared with Suleiman. Expansive is a very good trait, Org is mediocre. Philo is a fantastic trait, Imp is mediocre. I give the nod to Suleiman b/c of Philo, but both are very good leaders.

 

[ben-jammin]

Suleiman. Philosophical alone is better than expansive/organized even with the synergy between those two traits.

 

[Fippy]

Ottomans UB/UU combo is very overrated..
Aqueducts are bad, esp. with an expansive leader like Mehmed. Rarely does +2 happy make up for putting 100h into something otherwise useless, and they come rather late for these kind of problems.
And Jans are muskets..shrug.

This makes Mehmed rather average for me, expansive is nice but not really top and similar for Org. Starting techs save him from dropping even further, he has no real "kicker" that would bring him close to being considered among the top leaders.

Suleiman is saved by Phi and no fishing as little extra bonus, like already mentioned.
Easily top 10 for that combo, excellent pick for quick finishing posing dates

 

[ben-jammin]

Ottomans UB/UU combo is very overrated..
Aqueducts are bad, esp. with an expansive leader like Mehmed. Rarely does +2 happy make up for putting 100h into something otherwise useless, and they come rather late for these kind of problems.
And Jans are muskets..shrug.

This makes Mehmed rather average for me, expansive is nice but not really top and similar for Org. Starting techs save him from dropping even further, he has no real "kicker" that would bring him close to being considered among the top leaders.

Suleiman is saved by Phi and no fishing as little extra bonus, like already mentioned.
Easily top 10 for that combo, excellent pick for quick finishing posing dates

100h for +2 happiness and +2 health is actually really good for the second half of the game, with all the hammer multiplier buildings that cause unhealth. And compared to the cost of 2 happy faces under HR if your cheapest unit is 35 hammers + unit maintenance, it's not a waste of hammers.

 

[Choggy]

Ottomans UB/UU combo is very overrated..
Aqueducts are bad, esp. with an expansive leader like Mehmed. Rarely does +2 happy make up for putting 100h into something otherwise useless, and they come rather late for these kind of problems.
And Jans are muskets..shrug.

This makes Mehmed rather average for me, expansive is nice but not really top and similar for Org. Starting techs save him from dropping even further, he has no real "kicker" that would bring him close to being considered among the top leaders.

Really? I agree that there is no synergy between the UB/UU combo and Janissaries are a bit crap but the Ottoman's starting techs are the best in the game and their UB is available on the critical tech to currency and can be chopped out quite easily. I don't rate the Hanging Gardens that much but the Ottomans make it a wonder well worth having.

The Ottomans are best for cottage-spamming - Suileman is probably the better of the two in the long term because cheap universities mean that Oxford Uni is viable, that said Mehmed is one of the best early REX civs in the game.

 

[Izuul]

Janissaries are decent with cannons. There's not much else to say about them though.

 

[robbyextreme]

I don't find Organized very useful, I hardly build courthouses early, the lighthouses are situational and factory's + saved civic GDP comes way to late into the game.

Expansive is great though.

Also don't ever underestimate Imperialistic.

 

[Gwynnja]

I like expansive better than philosophical and organized (slightly) better than imperialistic. But GPP is definitely my biggest sticking point.

 

[oranje willem]

Really? Imperialistic isn't great, but Philo is probably #1b when discussing the best traits in the game. It works well for Suleiman too because he doesn't start with Fishing and can bulb Machinery and Engineering.

I don't know about philo being the best trait in the game, I personally don't feel this is true, but perhaps in the hands of the best of the best it is.

Also, are Machinery/Engineering bulbs even desirable? I think most people agree that medieval warfare is the least efficient type of warfare. In addition you can only work 1 engineer with a forge, which nullifies the philo bonus compared to 2 scientists.

 

[ben-jammin]

I don't know about philo being the best trait in the game, I personally don't feel this is true, but perhaps in the hands of the best of the best it is.

Also, are Machinery/Engineering bulbs even desirable? I think most people agree that medieval warfare is the least efficient type of warfare. In addition you can only work 1 engineer with a forge, which nullifies the philo bonus compared to 2 scientists.

If you can get to Engineering fast enough it's just as powerful as getting to Cuirassiers early. It plays out differently, you generally forfeit Lib at higher levels by warring earlier, but Trebuchets can cap AIs even after they've gotten rifling, and can then be upgraded to cannons (where the ones that survived the wars would be largely CR III promoted).

For this strategy it often makes sense to take out one AI with elepults first, and then integrate whatever's left of that stack into your Treb/Mace/Pike stack.

 

[Izuul]

I don't know about philo being the best trait in the game, I personally don't feel this is true, but perhaps in the hands of the best of the best it is.

Also, are Machinery/Engineering bulbs even desirable? I think most people agree that medieval warfare is the least efficient type of warfare. In addition you can only work 1 engineer with a forge, which nullifies the philo bonus compared to 2 scientists.

1b as in right there with financial. Philo leaders can get great lib attack dates with extra GS bulbs and GMs to upgrade troops. Also, philo leaders that do not start with Fishing (like Suleiman) can bulb Machinery and Engineering with great scientists. I don't really agree that that medieval wars are the least efficient because trebs are very powerful, and you can get them very early with GS bulbs. On deity you often don't have the luxury of teching to lib, so you have to become accustomed to fighting in that era.

 

[kossin]

Mehmed has so many cheap important buildings, only a few leaders rival him. (Suryavarman II mainly)

 

[Choggy]

This thread actually inspired me to play a civ game with Medmed at Emperor - I won't bother posting it up because it's just yet another cuirr stomp but I'd forgotten just how good he is.

Cheap workers, granaries and great starting techs meant a fast start, I didn't even bother with Monarchy because Hammams are available on the way to Currency and cheap courthouse whips for captured cities meant I've been able to keep capturing more and more AI cities without worrying about my economy crashing on me. I might give Suileman a go once I've finished this game off for comparison but Kossin's right, Mehmet is one of the best civs I've played as in the game.

 

[lymond]

good to see some Mehmed love finally As I mentioned in a previous thread not long ago, Mehmed is about using the power of growth. He also one of the most flexible leaders.