PreSLNES I: Masters of Ethereal

Wizard Name:Arya the Terrible/Arya126

Race:Dark Elves

Citadel Name:Ceros

Government:Enlightened Absolute Monarchy

SpellBook:...
Song of Corruption
Enchant/Curse(?)
Within Kingdom (0)
Direct Hit (50)
Refined (100)
A spell that, when cast by a wizard, creates a song that corrupts the minds of all sentient beings with ill intent towards the dark elves, forcing them to attack each other. the last man standing then has a 5% chance of becoming a Dark Elf himself, in which case he becomes a one man assassin unit, loyal only to Arya. High/Dark Elves are immune.

Mana: 50/100

Gold: 0/200

Castles: None

Cities: None

Towns: None

Units:...

Generic: Dark Elven Warlocks

1 warlock
Veteran (8)
Short Swords (2)
Leather (2)
Skilled Magic (0)
12 gold to train, 6 to maintain

The warlocks of the dark woods are capable of powerful feats of magic that can cripple and curse their enemies. Beware when approaching a city of the Dark Elves.

Custom 1: Aryan Trio

3 Wizards (Warlocks)
Elite (16)
Swords (8)
Netheryl (40)
Shields (2)
Flying Combatant (32)
Expert Magic (60/60)

158 to recruit /79 to maintain, MANA: 60/30.

These 3 wizards are trained in the arts of the Mana by Arya the terrible himself. One is an Elder wizard that was one of the first to found dark magic, and the other two are apprentices to him, all have had their arts refined by Arya himself, both Magical and Weapon wise. Resistant to magic, these warriors use a combination of Sword, Shield, special armor, and telekinetic abilities, along with the elder's ability to break into others minds and turn them against their allies, among other, more secretive abilities. A dragon Tamed by Arya is allocated to each trio. They are a force to be reckoned with!

Cerosian Scouts

20 Scouts
Trained (4)
Spears (2)
Leather (2)
Noncombatant Mounts (8)
Skilled (0/20)

Gold: 16/8, recruit/maintain...Mana: 20/10.

Scouts born to run long distances quickly, they have pikes to defend themselves with, along with some skilled magic to ward off any attackers with kinetic walls, and the occasional wizard flame which is impervious to water and can only be put out by magic. They can also eliminate unsuspecting targets if ordered (assassinations).

Elven Warriors of Ceros

250 Elven Magical Warriors
Veteran (8)
Longbows (8)
Swords (8)
Plate (16)
No mounts (0)
Skilled Magic (0/20)

40/20 Gold to recruit/maintain....20/10 Mana to recruit/maintain.

The Common soldier is unusually well trained, as culture in Ceros is mostly based on Archery, Swordplay, and magical prowess. Protected by heavy plate mail, these elves are slower than most although they can still maneuver well in battle. Commanded by an Elven General and usually accompanied by a 'trio', these are the most common troops in this military, although they are some of the best in the Ethereal.

Background: Arya the terrible is one of the most recent additions to the World of the Ethereal. Already having tamed his magic to a level far above the mortal races of this world, he gathered a following of Dark Elves and decided to train them and make a culture that would eventually dominate the world, and perhaps make him a Legacy to be proud of. He also trains some wizards specifically ('trios'), but he has his own special apprentice by his side at all times.

Will the wizard be able to be represented on the map as a powerful unit in certain circumstances?
 
Warning for you arya pikes do not tend to work well in small units. Spears might be a better choice or swords or axes. Otherwise looks good.
 
Weak and One Time magic may not have the result that you want them to have.
 
@arya: It looks really good! Welcome.

1. Netheryl is 40 gold. So your current #s are right.

2. You currently have 0 gold per turn. You haven't founded your first city yet (that will happen in the first turn).

Will the wizard be able to be represented on the map as a powerful unit in certain circumstances?
Click to expand...

Think of your Wizard as one that wants to avoid battle. His power is channeled through his Citadel, so he wants to stay there and gather power and rule his/her kingdom. However, for story purposes, he could travel around - but he won't be able to fight in battles.

*

Dark Elf sign-ups are closed. I was thinking of closing it at 2, but felt that Massive Attack's Dark Elves are "different" enough to warrant 3 players.

3 more players in general can still sign up. :)
 
Seon is correct. I have an equation (that is kept secret). Having a weak spell with your description will do something, but just remember the intended effect might not work out.

And listen to Vertinari. He has good pike advice. ;)
 
Hmmm. I will consider these suggestions and edit my post accordingly.
 
arya126 said:
Hmmm. I will consider these suggestions and edit my post accordingly.
Click to expand...

Cool. Lots of people around to help you - so just ask Qs if you have them.

*

On another note, I am going to say this golden rule (to be added as a clause in the rules):

Please acknowledge that I have made this NES highly customizable for the players. Remember that for each update I will be cycling through unique units and spells and trying to make this as enjoyable for everyone as possible. It would really help if no one questioned my judgment/updates, and to just take updates (the results of your orders) as they come. Of course there are circumstances where I might have missed something, and that is fine. Please mention it. But if you go into details about your spell and how it should have succeeded or talk about how your unit should've won that battle, I guarantee I have a plethora of reasons as to why I made that judgment.
 
Thanks. i was actually surprised by how many people posted suggestions in that short time. Just goes to show you that all the awesome things people say about NESers are true. This is my first btw.
 
.... a word of advice. It may not be the best idea to give all of your units skilled magic, espescially if you plan on having powerful spells.
 
Starlife said:
Please acknowledge that I have made this NES highly customizable for the players.
Click to expand...

You've taken a system that impressed me with its ability to generate unique player nations and replaced it with one that heavily penalizes anyone that doesn't conform to certain stereotypes.

For the record, that's why I'm not playing.
 
Shadowbound said:
For the record, you've taken a system that impressed me with its ability to generate unique player nations and replaced it with one that heavily penalizes anyone that doesn't conform to certain stereotypes.

That's why I'm not playing.
Click to expand...

Yeah. I changed that system to complete utter thoughtless crap, and not worthy of you at all. Not to mention how terrible of a mod I probably am (noob), and all that. I had already gotten that impression - your post here is unnecessary. There is absolutely no way this game will be fun at all, and those stereotypes you said will completely limit players and their imagination and make everything terrible.

:rolleyes:

Your latest suggestion was to make racial advantages something like, "Elves are good at fighting in forests". If that isn't conforming to stereotypes, than I don't know what is. Not that that is a bad thing. Stereotypes are not always bad and I thank you for your input, of course.

If you ever make a game, and I wish to play because I am interested by the setting, but there are some aspects of the rules I don't agree with, I'll probably play. But that's me. It'd be your game, and thus your decisions ultimately. But I might be a bit more willing to have faith in a mod. Ultimately, if you think of my system in the way that you mentioned above, then you clearly shouldn't play the game. "Heavily penalize" is a very narrow analysis of everything in here. If you can't swing your imagination in a certain way, it's not my fault. If you think of everything as numbers and a system requiring your standards of perfection (and not as a Never Ending Story) - also not my fault.

All things considered, I think I've taken much of the input from different players, and not just a single one player - to make it have something for almost every one.
 
I've never challenged your ability as a mod, and am impressed with your skill at mapping. What I have pointed out, and others have argued much more eloquently, is that the free traits you offer are an unnecessary complication that not only unfairly gives advantages to certain races but also limits player's options. When approached by either of the two goals of building a ruleset that 1) creates balance or 2) encourages creativity, it fails. You've promised to even out any imbalance in the updates, this does not solve the problem in that your players are pushed into fulfilling stereotypes for each race, when you should be encouraging them to break stereotypes.

While you've been responsive to adding new sections of the rules to cover holes, you've been outright hostile to any criticism of anything you've already added. Instead of taking it as an attempt to refine your work, you construe it as a personal attack. You then lash out, accusing your critics of lacking creativity. Constantly insinuating that anyone who disagrees with you lacks imagination is not an effective way to either defend your position or make friends. Instead of poorly disguised insults, you should take a step back and wonder how creative it is to make use of the same generic races that have been bouncing around since Tolkien, in a NES based on a videogame from the 90s.
 
Shadowbound said:
I've never challenged your ability as a mod, and am impressed with your skill at mapping. What I have pointed out, and others have argued much more eloquently, is that the free traits you offer are an unnecessary complication that not only unfairly gives advantages to certain races but also limits player's options. When approached by either of the two goals of building a ruleset that 1) creates balance or 2) encourages creativity, it fails. You've promised to even out any imbalance in the updates, this does not solve the problem in that your players are pushed into fulfilling stereotypes for each race, when you should be encouraging them to break stereotypes.

While you've been responsive to adding new sections of the rules to cover holes, you've been outright hostile to any criticism of anything you've already added. Instead of taking it as an attempt to refine your work, you construe it as a personal attack. You then lash out, accusing your critics of lacking creativity. Constantly insinuating that anyone who disagrees with you lacks imagination is not an effective way to either defend your position or make friends. Instead of poorly disguised insults, you should take a step back and wonder how creative it is to make use of the same generic races that have been bouncing around since Tolkien, in a NES based on a videogame from the 90s.
Click to expand...

Shadowbound, since you seem to have me down pretty well, you should know that I am not criticizing you and I am sure you have a very adequate imagination.

What irks me is simply that some people don't realize that if I change 1 thing, 1 or 2 or 3 other players might not like that change. So I can't make a ruleset that pleases everyone 100%. That is normal to me. That is fine.

I do not think you are criticizing me and I know you are making suggestions, which I am always open to. What I am bothered by is more a lack of attempting to understand the kind of game I am trying to run. Just because it is based on MoO, doesn't mean anything. It is completely different systematically.

In my world, races are this way. Races have these backstories. They have these traits. And from what I have read so far, people have posted extremely unique descriptions of their kingdom. I can't discount their work, and I won't. While this is a "fresh start", there are still certain descriptions of the races that I have created. Stereotypes are not always a terrible thing, by the way. You yourself said unique racial traits should be extremely stereotypical concepts.

Which race do you feel receives an unfair advantage at this point, may I ask? And who are these "others" you refer to? LDi and I have obtained a mutual understanding at this point. I wrote to him many times in this thread I meant no offense to him. So don't tell me I am being hostile to people.

When I mention "creativity", it isn't an attack on you. It is just a simple explanation that there are certain aspects to this game that any system won't be able to completely define.

It is your opinion that my rules don't create balance or encourage creativity. You have spoken, and I have heard you. What else is there to say, at this point? If you don't want to play - don't play. It's that simple.

But don't accuse me of being hostile to critiques of my rules. I have been anything but hostile for that reason. If I seem irritable, it is more because of this strange idea that you know what is best for this game and you have no tolerance or willingness to attempt to understand me or what I want to make here. I am perfectly willing to hear you out, but once you say that I am suddenly doing these terrible things like pushing players to fulfill stereotypes and not having balanced rules and not encouraging creativity - well then how am I supposed to act? That isn't a real suggestion, anyway. If you have something helpful to post, post it.
 
And for the record, to anyone else who is reading:

I am always open to suggestions about the rules. If you want to suggest something, do it now before we start. I am always willing to discuss it. But if you just say blanket statements without posting some real advice or suggestions, then it might be more harmful than helpful.
 
If I may interject and interpret Shadowbound's words into more friendly tone...

What's the point of having set races with set modifiers?

I do understand that it is merely there to symbolize the races that have already established themselves within Ethereal, but the wizards, as evidenced by the OP, is extradimensional entities. As they already come with "followers" who need to be "settled", the starting populace can be assumed to be extra-dimensional in nature as well.

Although Lucius, in the story, came from a culture of humans that mostly resembles this world's High Men, they are STILL COMPLETELY different. The difference in culture can be spotted in Lucius's choice of attire: a white suit and a fedora.

Long story short, what I am trying to say is...why cannot we have humans that do not focus primarily on Plate Mail or riding horses to have high cavalry, but rather like dark elves that focus on magic?

Why cannot we have a culture of warrior elves that live in the desert, using their bows and horses in combat instead of that magical forest ranger elves?

Why cannot we have barbarians that, instead of being hairy screaming Neanderthal warriors, are a race of raiders that have developed their own iron industry based on slaves caught in previous raids?

The system I suggest now is that, players could be allocated 20 points, each to subtract 1 GP required to equip a unit with any of the traits.

Just my two cents.
 
And by the way, Shadowbound, I hope I am not so bad at making friends as you say. I am not disguising insults and I am not so petty.

Also, the holes you mention - it is so much more than that. We had open discussion in this thread about certain concepts.

If you can't grace us with your presence, well, sorry to hear it. We'd love to have you play of course.
 
Thanks for the comments, Seon, and the friendly tone. ;)

I do understand that it is merely there to symbolize the races that have already established themselves within Ethereal, but the wizards, as evidenced by the OP, is extradimensional entities. As they already come with "followers" who need to be "settled", the starting populace can be assumed to be extra-dimensional in nature as well.

Although Lucius, in the story, came from a culture of humans that mostly resembles this world's High Men, they are STILL COMPLETELY different. The difference in culture can be spotted in Lucius's choice of attire: a white suit and a fedora.
Click to expand...

Your Wizards are extradimensional and all-powerful, yes. The "followers" are from Ethereal. They have flocked to you via your magical prowess. I was not really thinking they came with you through a dimension, but rather they are beings from Ethereal who were immediately drawn to you and swayed by you. Then, throughout the game, you are basically annexing settlements either owned by players or NPCs.

Long story short, what I am trying to say is...why cannot we have humans that do not focus primarily on Plate Mail or riding horses to have high cavalry, but rather like dark elves that focus on magic?

Why cannot we have a culture of warrior elves that live in the desert, using their bows and horses in combat instead of that magical forest ranger elves?

Why cannot we have barbarians that, instead of being hairy screaming Neanderthal warriors, are a race of raiders that have developed their own iron industry based on slaves caught in previous raids?
Click to expand...

I know, which would remind me so much of Magic: The Gathering, which I've always thought to be way too overdone. Though I'm sure we would do it differently.

Seon, your idea is a good one, but here are a few reasons why I gravitated towards stereotypes:

1. To describe Ethereal before Wizards came.

2. To fill up terrains with specific races. There is a consistency to where certain types of peoples live, and how that has developed their biology, magic, and specialties. That makes a bit of sense to me. Stereotypes aren't stereotypes with a lack of reason.

3. To have a single consistent set of advantages for races, thus causing players to choose a race based on those advantages, rather than choose a race and then choose their own. For a NES that is involving so many unique spells and units, this is quite honestly easier for me. If I made this system to be what you are proposing, I have feared that it would be too much work on me.

The last point is really quite important. I don't want to get burnt out on updating this.

I don't want you all to think it never crossed my mind to not have stereotypes. Of course it did. But the reason I chose them was to have sort of an easier way to navigate through the world of Ethereal - a certain set of standards on how races in Ethereal work. This will make it much easier on me. If we were allowing such diversity, then I'd have to constantly cycle through 12-15 different players' personal stats, beyond units and spells, and into the very meat of what they get for free and what they don't. It might be easy at first, but eventually would get a bit overwhelming.

Now let's talk about what stereotypes I have not included:

Interactions between races. All up in the open because Ethereal is currently settled by series of city-states rather than whole kingdoms.

How races fight well and where they fight well. I thought the advantage of Elves fighting well in forests was a bit trite because... if a player gives good orders for fighting in a grassland, why should they be penalized?

I am still open to taking away racial advantages, and terrain preferences. But consider my 3 points above.
 
Starlife said:
I know, which would remind me so much of Magic: The Gathering, which I've always thought to be way too overdone. Though I'm sure we would do it differently.
Click to expand...

Never played that game to know what you are talking about, but sure :p
 
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