[BTS] Prince Shadow Game: Cyrus of Persia

[keyboard-rider]

Hello! I am back and ready to learn more about How To Civ IV. Here is a new shadow game.

Pangaea
Balanced resources
No huts or events, Rising seas enabled
6 AI civs
Difficulty level: Prince

Civ: Persians
Leader: Cyrus
Traits: Cha/Imp

Starting location analysis:

- Flood Plains looks nice, however, I should be wary of unhealth.
- Southwestern edge of Flood Plains is visible 2S1E of Settler.
- Plains/Hill looks attractive for hammers.
- Tundra visible to the north, are we near the northern edge of the map?
- Flood Plains seems to continue to the east.
- There appears to be lots of Forest around, which is good for chopping.
- Potentially, another Plains/Hill 2E of Scout.

With the Settler, I do not see why I should not settle the PH 1W1S. In the worst case, the capital gets 3 Flood Plains tiles and what looks like a Grassland, along with the improved production from PH.
With the Scout, I was first torn between zig-zagging 2E to check out that potential Plains/Hill, or assisting the Settler a bit, moving 2S1W. However, I do not see how moving the Scout 2S1W would change the situation of the Settler. With this in mind, I would zig-zag to the second PH to get a good overview of its surroundings.

 

[Gumbolt]

On prince you get bonuses on health. So i doubt health would be an issue.

As long as there is some food near that plains hill SW of your start. Starting on the extra hammer tile seems pretty standard play. With another plains hill tile to the east to share the flood plains. That early extra hammer is a huge bonus to your start.

 

[pigswill]

Maybe move scout as you indicated before deciding , PH to east may be better than PH SW.

 

[keyboard-rider]

Zig-zagged Scout onto PH 2E.

New PH appeared 2N. It is not next to river, thus not as interesting for founding the capital on.

Scouted PH is very interesting:

- It has much less Forest, many tiles can be improved immediately (after relevant research, and Worker out).
- 4 FP tiles, 2 Grassland. Cottage powerhouse, and we also get the Wheat.
- Production potentially better than original PH, since BFC of a city on scouted PH would have two more PHs in it.

Tiles to the east of scouted PH look like Grassland, with or without Forest. To the south, not sure. Desert or FP, perhaps.

I am now tempted to move Settler towards scouted PH, then move the Scout to the PH 1E1S of the scouted PH. In the worst case, we can found capital on scouted PH. Scouting the next PH 1E1S may reveal an even better spot.

 

[sampsa]

Yes, scout ph is now the best visible spot. Settler SE-E I presume to uncover some more tiles. Scout SE next turn I guess.

 

[keyboard-rider]

Settler SE-E I presume to uncover some more tiles.

Yes, good idea - we get to discover two extra tiles this way.

Played another turn.

Two suitable city sites (starting PH is now farther away and only half-scouted, top PH has lots of Plains around it).

A:

• Wheat +4
• 5 FP, 7 GL
• 2H + up to 2x3 Hammers from neighboring PHs, more with Railroad
• 2 x 4 commerce from Silk with Calendar
• Decent amount of forest for chopping

B:

• Pig +6
• 4 FP, 4 GL
• 2H + up to 1x3 Hammers from neighboring PH, more with Railroad
• No Silk
• Two unexplored tiles
• Less forest for chopping
• A guaranteed further city spot at top PH

Is there such a thing as 'plenty of Food for growth' where extra Food is no longer interesting?

 

[sampsa]

Is there such a thing as 'plenty of Food for growth' where extra Food is no longer interesting?

In a way, yes. Or let's say the value is diminished.

For me, the difference is mostly between a tile with +1 more yield (6 vs 41) but 5 forests less. Other things are not super relevant, maybe silk tiles being the most relevant.

I think I'd go A for more forest and a more convenient tech path.

 

[keyboard-rider]

Played another turn. Founded capital on spot A.

Coastline is visible N-NE.

Scout explored a Hill near Pig and found Stone. It looks as if we could create a helper city to share some FPs. We could then consider building Stonehenge or Mids. I found a Gold, but only with meh tiles around it.

I am considering that helper city. It would affect some of the choices I have:

- What size to grow to before training Settler? About 4? We have the Wheat Farm and 4 FPs to work. On the other hand, if we found that helper city, could train Settler earlier.
- Tech choices. We have Agri already, need TW for Pottery, as well as AH for some of the upcoming city spots. Worker out in 12T, 1T to move to Farm, 4T to improve, so in about 17T I need to find something else for it to do. I can get TW + Pottery OR AH done in that time, but not both. We would eventually like BW to chop a bit.

With helper city:
AH
TW+Pottery
Mining+Masonry
...

Without helper city:
TW+Pottery
...

I am actually tempted not to go for a helper city immediately. The reason is that AH will not help the capital in any way (save perhaps as a trade item after 2nd culture pop...), and I believe developing the capital is more important than developing a helper city. TW+Pottery lets us do that ASAP.

 

[sampsa]

What size to grow to before training Settler? About 4? We have the Wheat Farm and 4 FPs to work.

Probably size 2, if you slow build. You are IMP, thus those fps are bad to be worked, even silk is a lot better. You might grow to size 4 to 2-pop whip though. Perhaps the problem with BW is that you need wheel to connect. I don't think I'd go AH.

 

[keyboard-rider]

T19.

Found a Bear and some Panthers. Poor Scout. I will promote him if he survives. Coastline seems to be devoid of seafood.

This time, I ended up opening with TW+Pottery.

Plan:

- discover final tiles above northern Tundra using next Warrior to see if there is any seafood,
- tech, in order: BW, AH, Myst, Masonry
- chop whip Settler at size 4 in capital

Thoughts:

- Should X or Y come first? Z looks weaker than either X or Y since unlike X or Y, there is no FP sharing, useful for whipping. X has +6F Pig and +4H Stone and can share 1-3 FP, Y has +5F Corn, 3 unique and 1-2 shared FP depending on where X goes. Y also claims 2 FP immediately rather than one FP immediately with X. X? claims more territory, but it is worthless Desert. Is claiming 4 Desert tiles and a forested Plains worth losing 2 shared FP over, especially when planning to whip a lot? I do not believe so. Another interesting option is the 2-Fur, one Corn spot, +8C from Fur seems pretty good.
- What should I be considering when deciding between going Worker first, Granary first or Monument first, when not in capital city and not having a Creative or Expansive leader?

 

[pigswill]

Techwise you probably need mining>BW next. City X needs AH and masonry to be profitable making it your third or fourth city, so probably City Y next.

 

[sampsa]

Hmm I think it was way too early for pottery, especially since IMP. I don't think you can afford to go AH, you need BW!

I would go Y, and consider burning a floodplain (i.e. 1N of Y) just to be able to share better with the capital. Both Z and X without any doubt the spot that is (half a tile) closer to the capital.

 

[keyboard-rider]

T39:

Maybe I have played too many games with Financial leaders. Restarted and went TW, Mining, BW, Pottery. Worker pre-built some roads to city spots while not having anything else to do. Now starting AH.

Lost a Scout to a Panther.

Whipped Settler in capital at size 4, founded second city on FP, as suggested.

Found a Fish close to northern tundra.

Plan:

- Finish AH, then do Masonry to prepare for Stone tile city settling.
- Train another Worker.
- Put down some cottages.
- Discover border of Roman Empire.
- Get some Granaries up.

7 cities is probably too much. I will probably skip the PH Rice city for now, and may delay either the Copper spot or the coastal one.

 

[keyboard-rider]

T90.

Got Stonehenge, Granary, then Mids in Susa. Mids was chopped, but Susa is now unhealthy. I finished Mids this turn, so will be running Rep after Revolution.

Tech path: AH, Masonry, Myst, Math (for chops), Archery+HBR (for HAs), Currency (for better economy). Probably Calendar (to improve 2 x Silk near Pasargadae) and Alpha are next.

We have Rome to the West which seems small for its time, and Joao to the southwest and south, who is REXing like crazy. To the east-southeast we seem to have a large uninhabited area.

Also met Wang Kon, Hannibal and Gilgamesh.

Joao spread Buddhism to me, so I have converted.

I am planning on bringing down Rome with a mix of HAs and Imms. Joao's land near me is quite bad, it will be some turns before it starts generating commerce.

 

[keyboard-rider]

T127:

T96: Met Suleiman.

T105: Got a Great Engineer. Settled him in Persepolis.

T106: A Scout discovered the ruins of a city in the southwestern end of the large, empty area to the east. Interesting.

T109: I discover a Barbarian city to the east.

T117: I declare war on Augustus, invading with a host of HAs.

T119: I discover CoL and get a missionary, who promptly gets beheaded by a Roman Axeman left at 0.4/5 strength by a HA attack. Nobody will remember his sacrifice.

T123: After conquering Rome, I create a super medic with the resulting GG. Rome looks very interesting as a wonder spamming city, since it has both kinds of Quarries. If only I was Industrial... I trade Crab for Corn with Suleiman, and note that Joao has Ivory.

T127: I take Neapolis and complete my conquest of the Roman Empire. Neapolis has the potential to get three Dyes. Neither surrounding civ is Creative and neither Hanni nor Joao is very close, so cultural pressure should not be too bad. *dons shades, stares back at Korean border guard*

Plan:

- Switch to Judaism
- Switch to Civil Service
- Try not to be Wang Kon's worst enemy somehow, maybe gift something to him
- Obtain Iron, perhaps by settling a city next to it. Oporto has some iron, but it is far away
- Let Joao use up his existing Settlers
- Contain Joao by wardec'ing him and capture Évora-Coimbra-Oporto
- Settle the Furs + Fish city spot
- Build Library in Susa and Ecbatana
- Build Market in Persepolis
- Take out Barb city to the east
- Try not to get tempted by Hanni's resources...
- Research Compass and get Harbors up and running in Rome, Antium, Cumae and Furs + Fish city

 

[Master_Of_Ideas]

Seems, your game level is beyond Prince. You outteched the AIs easily and conquered 'em.

Personally I like the decision to go first for Pottery. But I would had settled earlier and directly at your spot X. Regarding wonders, on higher difficulties you can orient your plan on this thread:
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/wonderdates.656787/ (when you beat the statistical dates of Immortal, you are quite safe for higher levels). Personally I like Stonehenge less and appreciate The Great Wall wonder, but barbarians are not really a problem at Prince level. So maybe going for Mids only is a good decision.

When you are interested, I can play a second walkthrough to give an alternative for the first 100 turns and comment detailed about it.

 

[keyboard-rider]

When you are interested, I can play a second walkthrough to give an alternative for the first 100 turns and comment detailed about it.

Please do, I am interested in how others would tackle this.

Domination victory, 1846.

Roughly, the following happened.

I declared war on Joao. I was able to take not only Évora, Coimbra and Oporto, but Lisbon, Braga and Lagos as well. I then forced a peace treaty, getting all of his tech - which was not much, probably Polytheism and Monotheism - and gold in return. He then got vassaled by Suleiman. I teched up to Engineering, then built up a force of Trebs, put my doomstack in Braga and declared war on Suleiman. I followed the same strategy as before - Take an axis of cities up to and including the capital, in this case, Konya-Edirne-Bursa-Istambul. He only offered token resistance. I mopped him up, then took Joao's remaining mainland cities, then had him capitulate. Wang Kon asked to be vassalized on T187, and I happily acquiesced, keeping his Protective trait in mind. I tried taking the Barb city to the east, and ended up losing a two-star HA to an Archer first, at 98% or so odds... But, then Wang Kon took the city and gifted it to me. How nice of him. At some point, Gilga vassalized Hannibal! I settled about 4-6 more cities to fill in some gaps while teching up to Cannon and Infantry. I noticed that Hannibal already had Riflemen, so teched on to Artillery. I then wardecced him, took Hippo, Uthica and Carthage, built a stack of Tanks, took Leptis, took Hadrumetum and Tharsus and destroyed Hannibal altogether. I had some ships to bombard his coastal cities with. I was about to Tank charge Bad Tibiru and take Ur to cut Gilga's empire in two, but the game abruptly ended in a Domination victory.

This game was a good lesson in the power of 2-pop whipping