[BTS] Prince Shadow Game: Cyrus of Persia

keyboard-rider

Chieftain
Joined
Mar 6, 2025
Messages
30
Hello! I am back and ready to learn more about How To Civ IV. Here is a new shadow game.

Pangaea
Balanced resources
No huts or events, Rising seas enabled
6 AI civs
Difficulty level: Prince

Civ: Persians
Leader: Cyrus
Traits: Cha/Imp

Starting location analysis:

- Flood Plains looks nice, however, I should be wary of unhealth.
- Southwestern edge of Flood Plains is visible 2S1E of Settler.
- Plains/Hill looks attractive for hammers.
- Tundra visible to the north, are we near the northern edge of the map?
- Flood Plains seems to continue to the east.
- There appears to be lots of Forest around, which is good for chopping.
- Potentially, another Plains/Hill 2E of Scout.

With the Settler, I do not see why I should not settle the PH 1W1S. In the worst case, the capital gets 3 Flood Plains tiles and what looks like a Grassland, along with the improved production from PH.
With the Scout, I was first torn between zig-zagging 2E to check out that potential Plains/Hill, or assisting the Settler a bit, moving 2S1W. However, I do not see how moving the Scout 2S1W would change the situation of the Settler. With this in mind, I would zig-zag to the second PH to get a good overview of its surroundings.
 

Attachments

  • screwdriver BC-4000.CivBeyondSwordSave
    screwdriver BC-4000.CivBeyondSwordSave
    31 KB · Views: 215
  • start.jpg
    start.jpg
    108 KB · Views: 314
On prince you get bonuses on health. So i doubt health would be an issue.

As long as there is some food near that plains hill SW of your start. Starting on the extra hammer tile seems pretty standard play. With another plains hill tile to the east to share the flood plains. That early extra hammer is a huge bonus to your start.
 
Maybe move scout as you indicated before deciding , PH to east may be better than PH SW.
 
Zig-zagged Scout onto PH 2E.

New PH appeared 2N. It is not next to river, thus not as interesting for founding the capital on.

Scouted PH is very interesting:

- It has much less Forest, many tiles can be improved immediately (after relevant research, and Worker out).
- 4 FP tiles, 2 Grassland. Cottage powerhouse, and we also get the Wheat.
- Production potentially better than original PH, since BFC of a city on scouted PH would have two more PHs in it.

Tiles to the east of scouted PH look like Grassland, with or without Forest. To the south, not sure. Desert or FP, perhaps.

I am now tempted to move Settler towards scouted PH, then move the Scout to the PH 1E1S of the scouted PH. In the worst case, we can found capital on scouted PH. Scouting the next PH 1E1S may reveal an even better spot.
 

Attachments

  • scouting-phs.jpg
    scouting-phs.jpg
    121 KB · Views: 264
Yes, scout ph is now the best visible spot. Settler SE-E I presume to uncover some more tiles. Scout SE next turn I guess.
 
Settler SE-E I presume to uncover some more tiles.
Yes, good idea - we get to discover two extra tiles this way.

Played another turn.

Two suitable city sites (starting PH is now farther away and only half-scouted, top PH has lots of Plains around it).

A:
  • Wheat +4
  • 5 FP, 7 GL
  • 2H + up to 2x3 Hammers from neighboring PHs, more with Railroad
  • 2 x 4 commerce from Silk with Calendar
  • Decent amount of forest for chopping
B:
  • Pig +6
  • 4 FP, 4 GL
  • 2H + up to 1x3 Hammers from neighboring PH, more with Railroad
  • No Silk
  • Two unexplored tiles
  • Less forest for chopping
  • A guaranteed further city spot at top PH

Is there such a thing as 'plenty of Food for growth' where extra Food is no longer interesting? :undecide:
 

Attachments

  • scouting-phs-2.jpg
    scouting-phs-2.jpg
    136.6 KB · Views: 224
Is there such a thing as 'plenty of Food for growth' where extra Food is no longer interesting? :undecide:
In a way, yes. Or let's say the value is diminished.

For me, the difference is mostly between a tile with +1 more yield (6:food: vs 4:food:1:hammers:) but 5 forests less. Other things are not super relevant, maybe silk tiles being the most relevant.

I think I'd go A for more forest and a more convenient tech path.
 
Played another turn. Founded capital on spot A.

Coastline is visible N-NE.

Scout explored a Hill near Pig and found Stone. It looks as if we could create a helper city to share some FPs. We could then consider building Stonehenge or Mids. I found a Gold, but only with meh tiles around it.

I am considering that helper city. It would affect some of the choices I have:

- What size to grow to before training Settler? About 4? We have the Wheat Farm and 4 FPs to work. On the other hand, if we found that helper city, could train Settler earlier.
- Tech choices. We have Agri already, need TW for Pottery, as well as AH for some of the upcoming city spots. Worker out in 12T, 1T to move to Farm, 4T to improve, so in about 17T I need to find something else for it to do. I can get TW + Pottery OR AH done in that time, but not both. We would eventually like BW to chop a bit.

With helper city:
AH
TW+Pottery
Mining+Masonry
...

Without helper city:
TW+Pottery
...

I am actually tempted not to go for a helper city immediately. The reason is that AH will not help the capital in any way (save perhaps as a trade item after 2nd culture pop...), and I believe developing the capital is more important than developing a helper city. TW+Pottery lets us do that ASAP.
 

Attachments

  • capital-founded.jpg
    capital-founded.jpg
    212.9 KB · Views: 210
What size to grow to before training Settler? About 4? We have the Wheat Farm and 4 FPs to work.
Probably size 2, if you slow build. You are IMP, thus those fps are bad to be worked, even silk is a lot better. You might grow to size 4 to 2-pop whip though. Perhaps the problem with BW is that you need wheel to connect. I don't think I'd go AH.
 
T19.

Found a Bear and some Panthers. Poor Scout. I will promote him if he survives. ;) Coastline seems to be devoid of seafood.

This time, I ended up opening with TW+Pottery.

Plan:

- discover final tiles above northern Tundra using next Warrior to see if there is any seafood,
- tech, in order: BW, AH, Myst, Masonry
- chop whip Settler at size 4 in capital

Thoughts:

- Should X or Y come first? Z looks weaker than either X or Y since unlike X or Y, there is no FP sharing, useful for whipping. X has +6F Pig and +4H Stone and can share 1-3 FP, Y has +5F Corn, 3 unique and 1-2 shared FP depending on where X goes. Y also claims 2 FP immediately rather than one FP immediately with X. X? claims more territory, but it is worthless Desert. Is claiming 4 Desert tiles and a forested Plains worth losing 2 shared FP over, especially when planning to whip a lot? I do not believe so. Another interesting option is the 2-Fur, one Corn spot, +8C from Fur seems pretty good.
- What should I be considering when deciding between going Worker first, Granary first or Monument first, when not in capital city and not having a Creative or Expansive leader?
 

Attachments

Techwise you probably need mining>BW next. City X needs AH and masonry to be profitable making it your third or fourth city, so probably City Y next.
 
Hmm I think it was way too early for pottery, especially since IMP. I don't think you can afford to go AH, you need BW!

I would go Y, and consider burning a floodplain (i.e. 1N of Y) just to be able to share better with the capital. Both Z and X without any doubt the spot that is (half a tile) closer to the capital.
 
T39:

Maybe I have played too many games with Financial leaders. Restarted and went TW, Mining, BW, Pottery. Worker pre-built some roads to city spots while not having anything else to do. Now starting AH.

Lost a Scout to a Panther.

Whipped Settler in capital at size 4, founded second city on FP, as suggested.

Found a Fish close to northern tundra.

Plan:

- Finish AH, then do Masonry to prepare for Stone tile city settling.
- Train another Worker.
- Put down some cottages.
- Discover border of Roman Empire.
- Get some Granaries up.

7 cities is probably too much. I will probably skip the PH Rice city for now, and may delay either the Copper spot or the coastal one.
 

Attachments

T90.

Got Stonehenge, Granary, then Mids in Susa. Mids was chopped, but Susa is now unhealthy. :( I finished Mids this turn, so will be running Rep after Revolution.

Tech path: AH, Masonry, Myst, Math (for chops), Archery+HBR (for HAs), Currency (for better economy). Probably Calendar (to improve 2 x Silk near Pasargadae) and Alpha are next.

We have Rome to the West which seems small for its time, and Joao to the southwest and south, who is REXing like crazy. To the east-southeast we seem to have a large uninhabited area.

Also met Wang Kon, Hannibal and Gilgamesh.

Joao spread Buddhism to me, so I have converted.

I am planning on bringing down Rome with a mix of HAs and Imms. Joao's land near me is quite bad, it will be some turns before it starts generating commerce.
 

Attachments

  • t90-central.jpg
    t90-central.jpg
    469.5 KB · Views: 106
  • t90-e.jpg
    t90-e.jpg
    345.6 KB · Views: 102
  • t90-rome.jpg
    t90-rome.jpg
    399 KB · Views: 101
  • t90-s.jpg
    t90-s.jpg
    273 KB · Views: 101
  • screwdriver BC-0625.CivBeyondSwordSave
    screwdriver BC-0625.CivBeyondSwordSave
    103.5 KB · Views: 90
T127:

T96: Met Suleiman.

T105: Got a Great Engineer. Settled him in Persepolis.

T106: A Scout discovered the ruins of a city in the southwestern end of the large, empty area to the east. Interesting.

T109: I discover a Barbarian city to the east.

T117: I declare war on Augustus, invading with a host of HAs.

T119: I discover CoL and get a missionary, who promptly gets beheaded by a Roman Axeman left at 0.4/5 strength by a HA attack. Nobody will remember his sacrifice.

T123: After conquering Rome, I create a super medic with the resulting GG. Rome looks very interesting as a wonder spamming city, since it has both kinds of Quarries. If only I was Industrial... I trade Crab for Corn with Suleiman, and note that Joao has Ivory.

T127: I take Neapolis and complete my conquest of the Roman Empire. Neapolis has the potential to get three Dyes. Neither surrounding civ is Creative and neither Hanni nor Joao is very close, so cultural pressure should not be too bad. *dons shades, stares back at Korean border guard*

Plan:

- Switch to Judaism
- Switch to Civil Service
- Try not to be Wang Kon's worst enemy somehow, maybe gift something to him
- Obtain Iron, perhaps by settling a city next to it. Oporto has some iron, but it is far away
- Let Joao use up his existing Settlers
- Contain Joao by wardec'ing him and capture Évora-Coimbra-Oporto
- Settle the Furs + Fish city spot
- Build Library in Susa and Ecbatana
- Build Market in Persepolis
- Take out Barb city to the east
- Try not to get tempted by Hanni's resources...
- Research Compass and get Harbors up and running in Rome, Antium, Cumae and Furs + Fish city
 

Attachments

  • t127-center.jpg
    t127-center.jpg
    483.2 KB · Views: 80
  • t127-e.jpg
    t127-e.jpg
    388.4 KB · Views: 72
  • t127-foreign-advisor.jpg
    t127-foreign-advisor.jpg
    80.1 KB · Views: 69
  • t127-portugal.jpg
    t127-portugal.jpg
    376.4 KB · Views: 70
  • t127-resources.jpg
    t127-resources.jpg
    395.7 KB · Views: 76
  • screwdriver AD-0300.CivBeyondSwordSave
    screwdriver AD-0300.CivBeyondSwordSave
    143.2 KB · Views: 67
Seems, your game level is beyond Prince. You outteched the AIs easily and conquered 'em.

Personally I like the decision to go first for Pottery. But I would had settled earlier and directly at your spot X. Regarding wonders, on higher difficulties you can orient your plan on this thread:
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/wonderdates.656787/ (when you beat the statistical dates of Immortal, you are quite safe for higher levels). Personally I like Stonehenge less and appreciate The Great Wall wonder, but barbarians are not really a problem at Prince level. So maybe going for Mids only is a good decision.

When you are interested, I can play a second walkthrough to give an alternative for the first 100 turns and comment detailed about it.
 
Last edited:
When you are interested, I can play a second walkthrough to give an alternative for the first 100 turns and comment detailed about it.

Please do, I am interested in how others would tackle this.

Domination victory, 1846.

Roughly, the following happened.

I declared war on Joao. I was able to take not only Évora, Coimbra and Oporto, but Lisbon, Braga and Lagos as well. I then forced a peace treaty, getting all of his tech - which was not much, probably Polytheism and Monotheism - and gold in return. He then got vassaled by Suleiman. I teched up to Engineering, then built up a force of Trebs, put my doomstack in Braga and declared war on Suleiman. I followed the same strategy as before - Take an axis of cities up to and including the capital, in this case, Konya-Edirne-Bursa-Istambul. He only offered token resistance. I mopped him up, then took Joao's remaining mainland cities, then had him capitulate. Wang Kon asked to be vassalized on T187, and I happily acquiesced, keeping his Protective trait in mind. I tried taking the Barb city to the east, and ended up losing a two-star HA to an Archer first, at 98% or so odds... But, then Wang Kon took the city and gifted it to me. How nice of him. At some point, Gilga vassalized Hannibal! I settled about 4-6 more cities to fill in some gaps while teching up to Cannon and Infantry. I noticed that Hannibal already had Riflemen, so teched on to Artillery. I then wardecced him, took Hippo, Uthica and Carthage, built a stack of Tanks, took Leptis, took Hadrumetum and Tharsus and destroyed Hannibal altogether. I had some ships to bombard his coastal cities with. I was about to Tank charge Bad Tibiru and take Ur to cut Gilga's empire in two, but the game abruptly ended in a Domination victory.

This game was a good lesson in the power of 2-pop whipping :whipped:
 

Attachments

Last edited:
Please do, I am interested in how others would tackle this.
I recognized, you used te BUFFY Mod. I am not sure, whether I play this perfectly, because this mod seems to change some rules. But I try my best to explain the game at my personal level.


Part 1: Our first Settlement

T0:

We see this starting position:

1753387691816.png


There's much wood and some floodplains for SIP. We can chop some buildings or wonders and build a great commerce powerhouse here. But we could lack in hammers at midgame. SIP is an okay decision for now, but maybe there are better spots.

So where to move our scout?
In the north we have tundra, so settling north may be a worse spot. Settling on a floodplain may lose us a great commerce tile. In the west we find many forests, which are hard to scout, but in the east we can find an alternative. Let's go east.

And we found this:
1753388063800.png


A PH is better than a GH, it gives us one :hammers: more permanently, and our worker is 3 turns earlier ready. The spot has similar to SIP a food resource with 4:food: , but with one :commerce: less. While SIP has 5 tiles, where potentially can be found great things, here are only 2.

Another disadvantage is: We see a potentially ocean in the north (above the 3 tiles). So if there is seafood, settling on the PH may destroy its usage.

This is a main point here. We could scout another turn more to be sure about this, but then we lose all in all 2 turns for scounting.

But maybe we can play flexible:
1753388520546.png


We plan to settle on A. When the scout finds seafood, we settle at B. When the scout doesn't find anything, we stay on A.
This way we lose 3 turns, but get a PH.

The alternative, getting the PH SW from start, is a risk. When we don't find anything, we lose the turn with nothing.

So, let's do it.

1753388687756.png


T1:
There's no seafood => Settle at A and stay with a permanent :hammers: more.

1753388821346.png
 
Last edited:
Part 2: Starting research and scouting until the second city (T2 - T39, 2440 BC)
Thouhts about Research:

There are 2 main variants, how to tech here:
A) Go for pottery first and build early commerce
B) Go for BW first and chop/whip an early settler for a second spot

How much time do we have?
Worker needs 12 turns, builds farm in 6, growth in 7 with farm
=> at turn 21 we should have pop 2, a warrior and we are on the way to our barrack/granary.

A) Pottery needs 17 turns, we can road directly on the way to the farm and start to cottage ~T20; Darius gets +2:commerce: soon in T27, which is +20% research
B) BW needs 23 turns, we cannot build any road, and only build a mine next to the wheat. In the end we need additional 17 turns to get significantly more commerce.

I definitely go for Pottery first. This way we may be slower at the settler, but start with a stronger commerce and a granary. Maybe we should start the settler at size 3, which gives us 15:science: instead of 12:science: with a second cottage.

Edit: Ah, misconcepted, we play Cyrus, not Darius. But OK, I stay at my decision here


T2:

Let's scout around for the next city spots. We go clockwise around the FP area, because settling near the FP seems to be commerce-wise interesting.

1753390634894.png


T13:
We scouted around:
1753390634395.png


Near the FP there are some great spots. One with stone and pig, which is additionally a great helper city, and 3 possible spots west. Settling at the PH spot SW of start would had been good. But we had not the knowledge.

We met Augustus (Industrial, Imperial) in the West. To work with him, we have 2 possibilities:
A) Kick him before he gets his praetorians running (we need horses for that to do this early)
B) Tech him out and conquer him with maces

We should think about teching AH before BW. But let's do this later. For now we know enough about city spots and should go for Augustus. But before I want to know, if there are some interesting tiles near the sheep.

T14:
Build a roadpart for free: Move the worker 1N, build road 1 turn, thenafter NE for the farm. Voila! We have 1 workerturn saved.
1753391068671.png


T15:
Near the sheep are pelts and a nice coastal city spot. We should think about this.
1753391204678.png


T19:
Our farm is ready, now we go for cottages.

We are again at a decision path:
A) AH first to find horses
B) BW first to chop/whip

Let's do some maths:
We grow in T21 with 1/24 and +5:food: would again grow in T26 with 2/26 and +6:food: and again in T30 with 0/28 and +7:food: and thenafter could build a settler with +10:food:/:hammers: in 10 turns, so we can found the 2nd city ~T43.
Meanwhile in T25 our first cottage is ready, in T30 our second and in T35 maybe our third, which accumulate +9:commerce: every tun and soon +12:commerce:
And the cottaged area is great to work for our new cities.

Meanwhile we could do some micro for the granary to make whipping really cheap.

We will finish BW at T44, when started right now, maybe some turns earlier because of our cottages.

So in both variants we have our second city before we have BW. But with AH after BE we have no chance for improving the pigs directly after settling.

So we go for AH first. And we should even think about going Stonemasonry before BW. Should we give a shot for building the pyramids here?

Well, let's think about this after AH is done.

Why not BW first?
Neither chopping nor whipping gives us an advantage immediately when going for pyramids. We can use the time for building up a strong second city, which can build the settler for city number 3, while our capital works for the pyramids. After BW we stil can chop the forests.

T21:
We reached size 2. Now: Warrior or Granary? A warrior is needed for securing our second spot. Our home warrior cannot do it, he is needed soon for happiness. A granary is not that urgent now. We go for warrior first and thenafter granary or maybe barracks. If there are horses nearby, we switch to barracks immediately! In this case we can try a 2-city-immortal-rush.
1753393168250.png

We found Augustus in the west:
1753393292510.png


T23:
And he really has a juicy, but hard to defend land... we set our espionage to 100% for Augustus. He gives us +6, so he must pay :commerce: for espionage. This may be a bad decision... he will lack research soon.
1753393361991.png


T24 shows this:
1753393537722.png


1753393568438.png

A good starting spot for fishing, but he needs BW soon. But it seems, he can tech it. Let's see, what he does now.

T26:
Size 3. We go for a granary for now, because we have plenty of land to expand and a slowteching neighbor, which can be outteched easily. A barracks is not really necessary, but when we start to whip, we want an already filled granary.

Scouting in the south shouldn't be that interesting anymore. There's jungle. Augustus will expand to the east for sure.
1753394020762.png


T28:
Horses are available - but far away. At higher difficulties a rush with immortals should be impossible, so we don't try it here too. Barracks are no priority anymore.
1753394182892.png


We will focus on mids now and found 3 cities nearby:
1753394356393.png


T30:
Size 4. Now let's go for a settler. Remember: Imperialistic leaders have +50% :hammers: for settlers, so we should choose hammer-tiles instead of food-tiles.
This way we don't need 10 turns, but 7!

1753394641141.png


We immediately start a road towards our new city spot. Maybe we should use ur imperialistic trait to build a second settler before starting the mids.
Because in FP we need 3 turns, we start road on the forest-plainhill, where we want to save one turn later in game for chopping for mids and building a mine.

1753394933696.png


T35:
We start Stonemasonry.

1753395227279.png


T37:
We go for size 5, build another warrior to keep the 3rd spot save before going to mids. Maybe a second worker can do a fine job in connecting the stone earlier.
1753395633098.png

T38:
We were hunted by a bear and a lion, but just in time built the 2nd city. We now start improving the pig. Look at the science-rating. Because the pig-improvement takes 4 turns, we can afford binary research without a turn loss so we set the research to 0% for 1 turn.

1753395875117.png


T39:
Nothing important happening, but I submit a save now, because you did it for 2440 BC before too. Part 2 is finished.

Demographics:
1753396394350.png


Your game as comparison:
1753396594860.png
 

Attachments

Last edited:
More detailed comparison 2440 BC:
T39:

Maybe I have played too many games with Financial leaders. Restarted and went TW, Mining, BW, Pottery. Worker pre-built some roads to city spots while not having anything else to do. Now starting AH.

Lost a Scout to a Panther.

Whipped Settler in capital at size 4, founded second city on FP, as suggested.

Found a Fish close to northern tundra.

Plan:

- Finish AH, then do Masonry to prepare for Stone tile city settling.
- Train another Worker.
- Put down some cottages.
- Discover border of Roman Empire.
- Get some Granaries up.

7 cities is probably too much. I will probably skip the PH Rice city for now, and may delay either the Copper spot or the coastal one.

It is unclear for now, which strategy is stronger:
(1) BW first
(2) Pottery => BW
(3) Pottery => AH => Stonemasonry = BW

I think, it depends on your actual goals. But your research path TW => Mining => Pottery => BW seem to be very unfocussed. when you tackle on (2), do it with focus. You don't need mining, when you don't work for BW directly. Go for pottery and set some cottages. Or go directly for BW and use chop/whip for your settlers directly. IMP is really strong, you can 2-whip a settler, so there must be really good reasons (like some floodplains and stones nearby ;-) ) to not go for BW directly.

Note also, that actually you research something, which has no direct use. AH gives you nothing for now. So there was some misplanning in your former turns. To time researches accordingly is a good way for efficiency.

1753396873177.png


Your northern warrior seems to be a bit misplaced, because when obsering something there would be better spots. In higher difficulties barbarians soon will appear, and this warrior won't help you at all.

You have plenty of roads, but not every road has a use for now. The road in the southeast of the river has no use at all. Wouldn't it be better to build a cottage?

In comparison to my game you have no cottages yet and use the tiles without improving them, while I have used 12 worker turns for cottaging so far. (The tile NW of my second sity has already 2/5 worker turns. and can soon be completed directly after improving the stones)

Remember this thread for wonder-races: Link
The pyramids can be finished in T72-T90 on Immortal difficulty. We are now in T39. So is it really focussed enough to build your second city there and not directly near the stones? We have only 33 turns left, until the first AIs could complete the pyramids...

What can be improved?
(1) Plan your research paths with more focus. There are sometimes more options, but every option should be played directly. Maybe you write down advantages and disadvantages and make a time-sheet. Building worker/warrior/settler and the needed research should be planned in a way, they match.
(2) Think about your improvements. Is a road really necessary? Or can it be an alternative to build just a farm on a floodplain or maybe chop something or build a road in a forest for prechopping?

I was on a similar skill-level some months ago. Beginning to plan and calculate before deciding which research I go for improved my game significantly. But let's see how the different start will work out...

________________

My plans:
- Calculate the pyramids and decide, whether I should go for 'em directly or building a 3rd city before
- Let the stone-city grow to size 2/3 and let it contribute to our settling efforts thenafter
- Think about connecting the gold in the east with a blocking city
- Scout the east and the southern area (scout can be built in our stone-city)
 
Back
Top Bottom