Prince VS Noble
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gopher666
Chieftain
Just posted a similar thread in General Discussion (Apologies if mine was posted in teh wrong subforum). Here's a link, if tips show up in that thread you can find useful.
And, no, you're not alone. I find dealing with the AIs on Prince an exercise in futility.
And, no, you're not alone. I find dealing with the AIs on Prince an exercise in futility.
I feel like I've been playing Civ for too long only to be stuck on a very medium difficulty. I look outside the box - heck there is no box. But it seems impossible that others can have success on much higher levels when I cannot acheive an encouraging loss.
I found the jump from warlord to noble hard enough
Some civs I'd liked playing suddenly seemed worse w/o a free technology
I know prince is the 1st difficulty level weighted in favour of the AI (however slightly) so I'm not looking forward to making the jump
I've been playing since Civ I and used to play Civ II on Emperor. Theres more to learn and a much better AI (for all its faults) than previous versions of Civ.
Some civs I'd liked playing suddenly seemed worse w/o a free technology
I know prince is the 1st difficulty level weighted in favour of the AI (however slightly) so I'm not looking forward to making the jump
I've been playing since Civ I and used to play Civ II on Emperor. Theres more to learn and a much better AI (for all its faults) than previous versions of Civ.
hecubus
General Specific
I have only played a handful of games on Prince so far but I found the transition a lot easier than the one from Warlord to Noble. I had to re-learn a LOT to be able to win on Noble, a lot of that seems to have carried over to Prince. Most of what I thought I learned on Warlord was holding me back.
Bleys
Deity
I think one problem many people have when trying to move up is they dont "win" fast enough, or cant build whatever they want too whenever they wish.
Higher difficulties are annoying that way. You lose races to techs and wonders you're used to winning. You arent always in the lead, or very near it. Your military seems anemic compared to the way you're "used to" running it. Etc etc etc.
One of the key factors of higher difficulties is that it SHOULD take you longer to equalize and ultimately win. If you get too set in your ways, teching and building in a pre-set fashion that you have "perfected" on a lower difficulty, then you will indeed struggle to move up.
What I am trying to say is that you need to make strategy adjustments as you go up in difficulty, because what is a "winning move" on one level (like the CS slingshot, thats just insanely overpowering) is next to impossible even just one level higher.
My big hangup going to Emperor and Immortal is that it seems to take SO LONG, into Modern Era even, to begin to feel like I have the game equalized, much less "in hand". When I first tried BTS, I played a game at Noble, thinking I needed to learn the ropes of the new leaders, tech tree, buildings, wonders, and features, etc, but it was a joke, I learned nothing, in fact, I learned the WRONG things, in some ways.
My best advice when trying higher difficulties is HANG IN THERE! You would be SHOCKED how easily it is to turn a bad position around, and even more shocked at how strong you're position really is, even if you think its "weak" or "lost". Some keys to my success at higher levels were "re-learning" how to do ordinary things like chopping and whipping, or changing civics/religions. Timing is critical at these levels. Knowing how to use whip/chop overflow to the best advantage, knowing which wonders/techs to skip and which to beeline, thats how you climb the difficulty ladder.
Higher difficulties are annoying that way. You lose races to techs and wonders you're used to winning. You arent always in the lead, or very near it. Your military seems anemic compared to the way you're "used to" running it. Etc etc etc.
One of the key factors of higher difficulties is that it SHOULD take you longer to equalize and ultimately win. If you get too set in your ways, teching and building in a pre-set fashion that you have "perfected" on a lower difficulty, then you will indeed struggle to move up.
What I am trying to say is that you need to make strategy adjustments as you go up in difficulty, because what is a "winning move" on one level (like the CS slingshot, thats just insanely overpowering) is next to impossible even just one level higher.
My big hangup going to Emperor and Immortal is that it seems to take SO LONG, into Modern Era even, to begin to feel like I have the game equalized, much less "in hand". When I first tried BTS, I played a game at Noble, thinking I needed to learn the ropes of the new leaders, tech tree, buildings, wonders, and features, etc, but it was a joke, I learned nothing, in fact, I learned the WRONG things, in some ways.
My best advice when trying higher difficulties is HANG IN THERE! You would be SHOCKED how easily it is to turn a bad position around, and even more shocked at how strong you're position really is, even if you think its "weak" or "lost". Some keys to my success at higher levels were "re-learning" how to do ordinary things like chopping and whipping, or changing civics/religions. Timing is critical at these levels. Knowing how to use whip/chop overflow to the best advantage, knowing which wonders/techs to skip and which to beeline, thats how you climb the difficulty ladder.
TheMeInTeam
If A implies B...
- Joined
- Jan 26, 2008
- Messages
- 27,995
Timing, planning carefully, and making sure there is a reason for everything you do. Check out the thread I started, because the advice the posters on the forum gave me just a few days ago allowed me to jump considerably in skill and I'm starting to win on Prince.
This is very, very true. Most games are decided in the early eras. The key difference between the levels is how hard and how difficult it is to overcome the early game disadvantages. So you might want to ask yourself how long you're playing before deciding that the game is hopeless. At the highest levels, it's not uncommon to be middling-to-last, then jump to first around the Renaissance.
If you haven't already, check out some of the walkthroughs from expert players at the highest difficulties. I'm sure you have. But it may be hard to pick out the important key factors.
1. REXing/boxing. At Emperor and above, "boxing in" the AIs becomes important or essential. Their early game advantages give them a leg up during the land-grab phase, and it must be overcome. At lower levels, you certainly don't need to obsess over getting your 2nd city next to an AI capital. But the general principle remains: you want to beat the AI to decent land whenever possible.
2. The player generally wins by planning gambits that the AI never would. Examples include the Quechua rush; wonder-spam super-specialist economy ("SSE"); lightbulbing through Education to get Liberalism; Cavalry rush; etc. A full list would be incredibly long; these are just common examples.
The point is to focus on a long-term plan or "gambit" that puts you ahead of the AI. The higher the level, the less room there is for wasted hammers, food, or gold. Aimlessly building wonders, improvements, etc. that don't put you closer to the goal is punished more severely as you move up.
Obviously there are further points to be made, but I think those are the most basic things one should glean from reading over expert walkthroughs.
schwartz
King
i definitely feel your pain in this regard.. i've been playing for a bit over a month and noble now feels boring, only now am i putting together my first solid game on prince, and i think i can probably win by space race or domination. the key for me was really focusing on specializing my cities, which i never really felt i had to do on noble.
hope you start getting some success soon, i know it's more fun to feel secure in winning..
hope you start getting some success soon, i know it's more fun to feel secure in winning..
reknaw
the Hopeless
I actually found the jump from Noble to Prince very easy, I won earlier and more convincingly each time. However, I now believe that was entirely due to my taking games played at Prince far more seriously than I did at Noble. Since then I have moved up to Monarch and I have yet to win a game, although a few have been close... I really enjoy a close loss far more than I do an easy win so I don't mind so much 
Good luck!
Good luck!This is mostly true for me aswell.
I played my 1st civ game ever(civ 4 BtS) on chieftan lost my 1st game try agian won real easy, tried agian and won real easy moved onto warlords lost my 1st game then agian had no problem owning after that 1st loss but then the warlord-noble jump was different in that i spent more like 15 games there rather than 2 or 3. Prince i lost my 1st 2 games to being declared on around 2000bc(sure learnt quick how much more important early military is) but after those 2 games ive been handsdown on top everygame. Im still playing Prince even though ive played more games on prince than all others combined and yet still not confident about a jump to monarch.
So it seems to be going in the same direction(in terms of time needed to adapt) as warlords-noble and i only hear every jump(for the most part) is harder than the last. So it would seem every(most?) jump(s) is indeed exponential.
Having said that i think Noble-Prince was much easier than Warlord-Noble. By the time i got to playing prince the only mistake i made that would come close to costing me the game(and it did) wouldve been ignoring military very early in the game compared to Noble and lower. After that was fixed it was not as hard to pull together a win compared to the first few games at Noble.
I expect monarch to be a much harder jump.
endymion
Chieftain
i had the exact same thing when i moved up to prince cause i read the forums a lot i expected it to be very hard so a watched everything closely and micromanaged a lot and ovethougt every move. I never lost a game on prince and after 5 i went to monarch at which im doing resenobel now won my first 2 games and lost my last won(damn u lizzy stupid un
)schwartz
King
its interesting.. i lost my first game ever, which was on warlord. I won 3-4 more there and then went on to noble where i've never lost. Prince on the other hand, took me 5+ games to adjust to, and now i'm finally winning a game, even though it's late (1920s already) and i'm not teching as fast as i'd like to. I have no doubt my subsequent games on prince will be faster wins each time. then i'll start the whole process over at monarch.
Florian
Prince
- Joined
- Jun 23, 2003
- Messages
- 337
As I just suggested on a related thread, it seems from my own experience and from a lot of anecdotal evidence I've read on these forums that for most people, every other jump is really hard, and the ones in between aren't that bad. Sounds like the OP is on the same pattern I am, where Prince is really hard, then Monarch isn't that bad, then Emperor is really hard. Other people are on the other track, where they move to Prince without much trouble, but then get kicked in the head when they move to Monarch.
I wonder what could account for this pattern.
I wonder what could account for this pattern.
OTAKUjbski
TK421
Differences in gameplay.
From Noble -> Prince, the
and limits decrease by -1 from +3/+5 to +2/+4 while from Prince -> Monarch, they remain +2/+4. Similarly, from Noble -> Prince, the distance maintenance multiplier increases by +0.1 from 0.75 to 0.85, while from Prince -> Monarch, they only increase by +0.05 from 0.85 to 0.90.This means early expansion strategies have to change considerably more making the jump from Noble -> Prince than from Prince -> Monarch.
In the unit/Military department: from Noble -> Prince, the AI only gets a free Scout while from Prince -> Monarch, the AI gets Archery and a free Worker & Defensive Unit (Archer).
This means early rushing strategies have to change considerably more making the jump from Prince -> Monarch than from Noble -> Prince.
-- my 2
Domination is pretty much my only method of victory. I turn space race off and turn Agg AI(always) and Raging barbs(half of my games) on. It makes my style of play harder and more entertianing without needing the jump to monarch for an increase in difficulty.
Id never play a Huge map as my comp is too slow for it to be any fun and besides that the game becomes alot less of a interesting/fun game and alot more of a tedious/repititive chore(imho). Large though, yes.
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