Prince. What a difference!

[Rancid Sushi]

Because the AI tend to have archers defending cities and they aren't melee, I guess...

Neither Praets or Maces get natural bonuses against archers though.

 

[InvisibleStalke]

Praets aren't better than Maces - but they are almost as good and come miles earlier. Best thing is you don't have to upgrade them to maces - add a couple of shock maces for defense against enemy maces - and your city raider praets still do just as well against longbows as maces do. Its so easy its like playing two levels lower.

 

[ParadigmShifter]

Yeah, what InvisibleStalke said. Macemen are only better than Praets vs. melee troops. Against longbows they are the same.

I've never even played Rome. I always play random leaders and it hasn't come up once yet.

 

[Mango]

Praets aren't better than Maces - but they are almost as good and come miles earlier. Best thing is you don't have to upgrade them to maces - add a couple of shock maces for defense against enemy maces - and your city raider praets still do just as well against longbows as maces do. Its so easy its like playing two levels lower.

Yes they are better. Maces cost 70 hammers. Praets cost 45. That's a pretty big difference considering the only difference is 50% vs. Melee. It's much more effecient to build Praets even after you get Maces since the AI defends most like Longbows. That makes Praets BETTER.

 

[InvisibleStalke]

I didn't think you could build Praets after you can build maces.

 

[r_rolo1]

You can't build swordsmen ( including Preats) after CS + Machinery ( same aplies to axemen )

EDIT: Removed reference to spearmen reference. Must stop Alt-Tab when posting

 

[Mango]

I didn't think you could build Praets after you can build maces.

Oh really? I never noticed. I usually build so many Praets that I never need to build anymore by the time I get CS and Machinery. I skip the Axe rush and go straight for Iron Working, then pump them out until I've conquered to my satisfaction. To be honest, most games as the Romans don't last very long for me.

 

[ParadigmShifter]

You can still build spears until you get engineering I thought. Elephants would be a bit too good otherwise.

 

[r_rolo1]

Changed post about spearmen ( )

 

[ParadigmShifter]

I keep ending up being overrun by knights and only having crappy spearmen to build while they tonk my macemen, I really must prioritise engineering more than education!

 

[r_rolo1]

Good oll'Lib beeline... why don't you wait a little and do a cav rush? The only thing that can do some harm to cavs is rifles or pikes. Rifles are somewhat far away and pikes are a candy to macemen ( even shock axes can beat them up). Of course that engineering gives trebs too...

 

[ParadigmShifter]

Easy to say wait a bit while Hannibal's Knights are pillaging your bananas, taking your border cities and you are 5 turns away from researching education!

I am playing Monarch at the moment though (not won yet, I'm trying to do this months G-Major), so it's not a typical Prince game situation (where I used to skip engineering and guilds on the way to liberalism).

 

[r_rolo1]

Well, that is a whole diferent thing... you're at war and need to dislogde enemy knigths without pikes.... Tricky one. I'm supossing that you don't have phants and no one will trade engineering with you. Try to whip industrial ammounts of spears or spam cats, the Sid given way to treat every problem post axes ( remember Sid's Advice: "Never despair...." ).... Collateral makes wonders.

 

[ParadigmShifter]

I think I gave up just as they were about to take my GP farm. I had ivory but they cost 3 pop to whip immediately.

It's happened a few times now. My Monarch games normally go like this:

1) Crush nearest neighbour
2) Buld up axes and swords and catapults. Research CoL
3) Declare on Mansa or some other late game threat
4) I take a few cities and then Monty declares. I deal with him and carry on my attack
5) Just as I am finishing off Mansa and Monty, the points leader decides to declare war
5) Loads of Knights and Ellies arrive to pick my cities off.

Normally I have a good friend but they tend to discover Christianity and convert just at the time I need them to help me out, so they become Cautious rather than Friendly. I guess I need to get my head round diplomacy a bit more.

 

[r_rolo1]

I think the problem that you are suffering is a very common one (I have it sometimes ),: mismanaged diplo. Monty will attack at the sense of blood, so you should bribe him to attack someone. The points leader sees you in war with two civs and "thinks" that you're being dogpilled, so he decides to give a help . Maybe if you bribeb monty agaist the point leader ( be more wary of the power graph than of the point count: AI look mostly to it when deciding war) all of that could be avoided. Or if you invited Monty to take a peace of Mansa along with you. Just remember that in civ no one has permanent friends, just permanent interests: your friend today could be your enemy tomorrow ( and vice versa ) and you don't have to be Monty's friend to eat at his table.

 

[ParadigmShifter]

Yeah good points I'll have to consider that in my next game. Monty was up in the tundra and not a threat so I ignored him while beating on Mansa, I should have realised he was going to attack at some point and tried to bribe him. Is Monty bribable even when he is annoyed though?
Brennus changing religion at the wrong time was the big diplo killer though, everyone else was annoyed and I thought I could rely on him to help me out if I got attacked, then he changed religions before I even noticed.

EDIT: And Cyrus was pleased with me before I took him out as target #1. It always seems to happen, your first neighbour is friendly until you take all their land and cities and destroy their civ.

Thanks for the advice, "King Rolo" (that was a cartoon in the 80s I think)!

 

[r_rolo1]

Monty is the absolute attack dog: throw a bone to him and he'll attack anyone you point. I really don't recall if he can be bribed when annoyed, but I've done it with cautious ( the difference is little: just need to give him 2 techs instead of one). Brennus always tries to run his own religion and actively beelines to that, so is not uncommom to him to found Christianity (or judaism) and became christian ( or jewish ), so you shouldn't had trusted that he would be in your religious team for long. And you're right: almost always we attack our friends with the help of our enemies ( who said that civ IV was a moral game? )... that instant +3 of the mutual struggle helps a lot to that.

P.S : Rolo is my last name. No relation with the cartoon AFAIK

 

[ParadigmShifter]

It was spelt Rollo anyway, have a look anyway, it may make you smile...

http://www.thechestnut.com/rollo.htm

Queen Gwen is hot though!!!

 

[Rancid Sushi]

Be wary of backstabbers. Some one made a chart of each leader's backstab rate. I forgot who posted it and I don't have the link though. I know that any leader with the Aggressive trait can easily be bribed to attack you, so instead you should actively bribe them to attack each other. I think Louis is probably the most notorious backstabber, from my experience. No one has gone from 'Pleased' to 'Annoyed' more often in my games.

 

[ParadigmShifter]

Haha, I was Louis in that game. I was worried about Hannibal, Mansa and Wang Kon (all financial, I guess I shouldn't have random leaders for me and the AI in a gauntlet game), Monty I knew would attack eventually but his ice-world wasn't looking great for him anyway. Cyrus was dead, and Brennuus was an OK trade partner until he went all Christian on me. He did keep beating me to the wonders (and liberalism too) though.

Sun Tzu may have been smarter than Oscar but he wasn't nearly as witty!