Prince. What a difference!

[r_rolo1]

Catherine is also a notorious backstabber. But the ones I find worse are the religious nutcases: Izzy, Brennus, Saladin, Ramesses ,even Ragnar sometimes. They will hate you until the end of the game ( because of the diplo - you pilled because of the constant denial to change into their religion) and they will attack someday ( In my shadow game of Lonely Hearth Club 3, Saladin was pleased with me and had a DP with me. But it was sufficient for him to lose the UN secretary elections for him to attack me)

EDIT: I believe that the link that was mentioned is this one or this one ( both by ori )

 

[Rancid Sushi]

Haha, I was Louis in that game. I was worried about Hannibal, Mansa and Wang Kon (all financial, I guess I shouldn't have random leaders for me and the AI in a gauntlet game), Monty I knew would attack eventually but his ice-world wasn't looking great for him anyway. Cyrus was dead, and Brennuus was an OK trade partner until he went all Christian on me. He did keep beating me to the wonders (and liberalism too) though.

Sun Tzu may have been smarter than Oscar but he wasn't nearly as witty!

Yes, but I'd prefer a religious nutjob to a secular one. The religious wackos are easy to manipulate if you share their religion, but leaders like Catherine and Monty will attack regardless. Those two are the only ones I know of who attack even when 'Friendly.'

 

[Arnesson]

Old Metamucil ain't so bad but I definitely agree with you on the other three

 

[Arnesson]

Many thanks for your suggestions. Building Archers for city defence seemed like a no-brainer, but that obviously will change. I have always disdained Warriors as too weak for genuine combat and too expensive to upgrade, but that is another paradign that requires adjustment. Finally, I have definitely not focussed nearly enough attention on city speacialisation (I tend to believe what the game tells me should be my research priorities far too often I guess). As suggested, I will try Julius first and see how I make out.

As for Catherine, I find it hard to distinguish who is the most likely to stab you from behind; she or Isabella. Cyrus tends to run a distant third.

 

[cabert]

As for Catherine, I find it hard to distinguish who is the most likely to stab you from behind; she or Isabella. Cyrus tends to run a distant third.

catherine will backstab you.
Isabella and cyrus won't.
Isabella will get furious at you if you don't run her religion, then attack.
Cyrus will have a great power, and will attack if you don't have something to oppose him. It's pretty easy to deal with him (trade largely with him, and he'll be happy).

 

[Rancid Sushi]

Cyrus isn't a backstabber. I find that it's very easy to get him to 'Friendly' and he loves signing defensive pacts. In my last game, he had a DP with myself and three other leaders.

 

[Arnesson]

Update on my progress, employing your suggestions:

Game 1: Julius, Terra, Epic, 6 opponents. Whoever said barbarians don't take cities lied! One Warrior on guard while the other quests for a likely second city location (and maybe a village or 2). Barbarian axeman ignored my improvements and beheaded my Warrior. End of History!

Game 2: Julius, Great Plains, Epic, 6 opponents, NO Barbarians! Made it to 800 BC. Then 4 of the 6 declared war on me within 4 or 5 turns of each other. Virtually instant road kill.

Game 3: Mansa Musa, Great Plains, 10 opponents, NO Barbarians. Made it all the way to 1923, standing 4th and in pretty good shape EXCEPT no oil and no uranium. Dead meat when Catherine decided that she didn't really like me after all. Hard to fight tanks and gunships with marines and infantry!

 

[InFlux5]

1. Beeline Alphabet. There is almost never a good reason not to. It gives you a monopoly on tech trading, allowing to backfill all your techs. You basically lose out on nothing by beelining this tech.

2. Use Slavery. Prioritize Granaries. Unless you are very low on food, Slavery will jump-start your early game tremendously.

3. War more. Steal Workers if you can get away with it. Plan a war early if you have a close neighbor; expand rapidly if you don't, building up your economy later.

But usually you will want to take a chunk out of your neighbor's empire and re-settle it yourself. (I don't like keeping foreign cities if I can avoid it, but it all depends.) The higher you go up, the more important it is to expand at the expensve of your rivals. You simply can't compete in a straight build-out.

4. Forget about wonders. There are some gambits that involved GW/Oracle/Pyrmaids, but I wouldn't focus on those until you have a good grasp on what to do without them. As you move up, they become less and less viable (unless circumstances are perfect); and if you keep getting trounced, chances are you don't have a good enough starting strategy to consistently get these wonders anyway.

 

[mudphud]

Update on my progress, employing your suggestions:

Game 1: Julius, Terra, Epic, 6 opponents. Whoever said barbarians don't take cities lied! One Warrior on guard while the other quests for a likely second city location (and maybe a village or 2). Barbarian axeman ignored my improvements and beheaded my Warrior. End of History!

I know my last game was ruined by the barbs (monarch if that matters). I had two warriors defending my city and a barb warrior attacked across a river and killed one of my warriors defending the city and the same turn a barb archer attacked and killed the other defended I almost had copper hooked up but that ruined it.

 

[hvevo]

Game 1: Julius, Terra, Epic, 6 opponents. Whoever said barbarians don't take cities lied! One Warrior on guard while the other quests for a likely second city location (and maybe a village or 2). Barbarian axeman ignored my improvements and beheaded my Warrior. End of History!

By the time barbarian axes spawn, you should already have at least 2 or 3 cities, and preferably horses/metal hooked up to build chariots/axes for fog-busting and defence.

Anyway, my advice is to specialize your cities; don't build everything everywhere. Prioritize your builds and don't neglect military!

 

[futurehermit]

1st priority in every game is barb defense. That either means archers or securing copper or horses *quickly* by a 2nd city. If you're not creative, this may well mean settling right next to a horse/copper source and not having an ideal 2nd city placement.

Otherwise, it can be game over, especially at higher skill levels. If your flank is protected by ocean then you may have more time, but I wouldn't count on it. Warriors are good for ***fog-busting*** but not for defending cities against archers and axemen.

 

[Arnesson]

Game 4: Kublai Khan, Continents, Epic, 11 Civs. I came 7th, but to have lasted through the entire game is a major breakthrough. Where it all went pear-shaped is when the cash ran out. Research dropped to 40%, and I fell way behind on tech (I had just completed Flight when time expired).

"1st priority in every game is barb defense. That either means archers or securing copper or horses *quickly* by a 2nd city. If you're not creative, this may well mean settling right next to a horse/copper source and not having an ideal 2nd city placement".

Yeah right! If you don't start with Mining as a given tech, Bronze Working does take a while! Plus, in the past three games, there has been no Bronze anywhere nearby, so I have had to wait for Iron Working to be able to produce Axemen. Same for Horses. For some reason, they seem to always be a fair distance away from my capital when playing at Prince level.

 

[Arnesson]

1. Beeline Alphabet. There is almost never a good reason not to. It gives you a monopoly on tech trading, allowing to backfill all your techs. You basically lose out on nothing by beelining this tech.

2. Use Slavery. Prioritize Granaries. Unless you are very low on food, Slavery will jump-start your early game tremendously.

3. War more. Steal Workers if you can get away with it. Plan a war early if you have a close neighbor; expand rapidly if you don't, building up your economy later.

But usually you will want to take a chunk out of your neighbor's empire and re-settle it yourself. (I don't like keeping foreign cities if I can avoid it, but it all depends.) The higher you go up, the more important it is to expand at the expensve of your rivals. You simply can't compete in a straight build-out.

4. Forget about wonders. There are some gambits that involved GW/Oracle/Pyrmaids, but I wouldn't focus on those until you have a good grasp on what to do without them. As you move up, they become less and less viable (unless circumstances are perfect); and if you keep getting trounced, chances are you don't have a good enough starting strategy to consistently get these wonders anyway.

Where do you get the money to recruit troops sufficient to grab cities from your neighbours, especially in the early game?? I do prioritise Granaries and whip the daylights out of my population (if for no other reason than to get rid on their red and green faces).

 

[r_rolo1]

Where do you get the money to recruit troops sufficient to grab cities from your neighbours, especially in the early game??

Plunder aka military economy

 

[cabert]

Plunder aka military economy

I'm currently playing a marathon game with ramesses (game posted here on the forum, monarch level, with loads of resources in the initial starting position), and I used the pyramids to run police state (first time for me, not used to this).
Just wanted to warn that military economy has a limit : when all neighbours are dead, there is no more gold to get.
I guess I have overexpanded a bit : losing money at 0%, even though I have several gold/gem mines and have markets and courthouses.
I'm not used to marathon, and those slow growing cottages are just insane. Lucky me (not really, all is planned), I just switched back to representation, build wealth and the free scientists from the great library, the free priest from temple of artemis and the settled GPs will continue my research for me. + a few scientists/merchants/priests/artists I have to feed, I still have a reasonnable teching speed .
Note that I also have sistine chapel (I build it myself! See, I'm not a barbarian ), so my specialists also give me the culture I need to seal the continent. Next step : optics.

 

[Ankh-f-n-Khonsu]

Yeah right! If you don't start with Mining as a given tech, Bronze Working does take a while! Plus, in the past three games, there has been no Bronze anywhere nearby, so I have had to wait for Iron Working to be able to produce Axemen. Same for Horses. For some reason, they seem to always be a fair distance away from my capital when playing at Prince level.

Sometimes you have to bite the bullet and research archery.

 

[Arnesson]

We won't discuss GAme 5. The 4 biggest Civ's declared war within a few turns of each other and blew me away in no time.

Game 6: Continents, Epic, 11 Civ's, No Barbarians (life is complicated enuf!)
All 6 Cib's on my continent went Buddhist and there were NO conflicts between us at all (and that included Louis and Julius). Conversely, on the other continent, the 5 Civ's were at each others' throats from 800 BC onwards. Hattie, Tokagawa and Saladin were eventually eliminated by Roosevelt and Elizabeth, with a bit of help from Cyrus at the end (transports)

What really did me in though was my capital city. The population started to erode around 1900, dropping from 16 to 1! I can see no reason for it. Happiness and health were both high. It was my Science city, with almost 200 beakers, and so it really hurt.

The other thing that was different was that I went counter to standard tactics and built lots (7) of cities early. That temporarily dropped Research down to 70%, but it rose steadily back to 100 before long, and I was well ahead in tech and points until about 2/3 of the way through the game. At that point, Cyrus skyrocketed, and quickly surpassed me. Still, I did get to Future TEch 2, which is a new milestone for me at Prince Level.

 

[OTAKUjbski]

What really did me in though was my capital city. The population started to erode around 1900, dropping from 16 to 1! I can see no reason for it. Happiness and health were both high. It was my Science city, with almost 200 beakers, and so it really hurt.

What? Is that even possible? Were your trade routes pillaged? What about war weariness? something about that doesn't add up at all (btw, 200 isn't really that high for a science city).

The other thing that was different was that I went counter to standard tactics and built lots (7) of cities early. That temporarily dropped Research down to 70%, but it rose steadily back to 100 before long, and I was well ahead in tech and points until about 2/3 of the way through the game. At that point, Cyrus skyrocketed, and quickly surpassed me. Still, I did get to Future TEch 2, which is a new milestone for me at Prince Level.

Dropping research even lower than 70% isn't too uncommon.

As a side note, you should post more screenshots and saved games. I love watching other people's games to see what I can learn, but that's not really possible when the information posted is just a brief summary of whether you won or lost a game.

-- my 2

 

[frob2900]

What really did me in though was my capital city. The population started to erode around 1900, dropping from 16 to 1! I can see no reason for it. Happiness and health were both high. It was my Science city, with almost 200 beakers, and so it really hurt.

Why didn't you open the city screen and assign some people to food tiles?? The population mechanics of the game are well defined and this cannot happen if you have enough food.

The city-governor is semi-********, but I've never heard of him doing something this insane.

 

[Arnesson]

Why didn't you open the city screen and assign some people to food tiles?? The population mechanics of the game are well defined and this cannot happen if you have enough food.

The city-governor is semi-********, but I've never heard of him doing something this insane.

I did that. There were no little guys in Chef's hats to be seen, No one pillaged my trade routes (that I know of - mind you I don't know how that works). It shocked me for sure! I take it that this hasn't happened to anyone before from the reactions received.