Problem with Ideologies

[Enginseer]

So nerf Freedom is the general consensus.

 

[Galbias]

From what people are saying this sounds like more of an AI problem than a problem with the ideology itself. Though the Freedom tenet that gives you the ability to buy units with full EXP and gives you a whopping 50% population supply boost on top might be a bit strong.

 

[Enginseer]

The AI will choose whatever benefits them the most and it seems Freedom has been very flexible and versatile that the AI loves it.

 

[BiteInTheMark]

Though the Freedom tenet that gives you the ability to buy units with full EXP and gives you a whopping 50% population supply boost on top might be a bit strong.

Well, this tenet is silly op. If you play at emperor and the AI is able to fill that cap, you have to face a army which is 87,5% bigger than yours. Cant imagine the war weariness you get, if you have to slaughter through that amount of units....

So nerf Freedom is the general consensus.

Not nerfing in general, but more specializing.
If you go for a domination victory with autocracy, you have 5 universal tenets and 5 which are helpful for domination, the other 7 are useless or not that much helpful for your goal. Meanwhile the freedom ideology has 13 tenets which helps in general, and you can go whatever you want. For a better balance, all ideologies should have around the same amount of tenets which are useful for any nation, give some advantages for 2 victory conditions and 1 or 2 tenets for niche things.
Maybe 9 universal tenets, 3 + 3 for the 2 main advantages and 2 for niche things. Or 7 - 4 - 4 - 2.

 

[Galbias]

The AI will choose whatever benefits them the most and it seems Freedom has been very flexible and versatile that the AI loves it.

The AI will choose whatever it perceives as benefitting it the most. If it's leaning too much towards Freedom, then it may be the AI's perception of Freedom that needs to be changed, not Freedom itself. Or specialize Freedom more like BiteInTheMark said, but looking at the tenets I feel like most of them are focused on growth and Great People as they should be.

Well, this tenet is silly op. If you play at emperor and the AI is able to fill that cap, you have to face a army which is 87,5% bigger than yours. Cant imagine the war weariness you get, if you have to slaughter through that amount of units....

I like the idea behind the tenet but the supply cap increase is too big, it should probably be like 10-20%.

 

[BiteInTheMark]

I like the idea behind the tenet but the supply cap increase is too big, it should probably be like 10-20%.

Realismn wise, order and autocracy were much more able to field troops into the battlefield than freedom orientated nations. I think GB and USA would have never allowed to send old man and children into the war like the Third Reich has done, or send wave over wave poorly trained and armed man into enemy fire like the sovjets have done.

 

[Galbias]

Realismn wise, order and autocracy were much more able to field troops into the battlefield than freedom orientated nations. I think GB and USA would have never allowed to send old man and children into the war like the Third Reich has done, or send wave over wave poorly trained and armed man into enemy fire like the sovjets have done.

I see what you're saying, but what are you suggesting? That the supply bonus be removed entirely, that a supply bonus be added to existing Order/Autocracy tenets, etc.

 

[YukiN]

Autocracy defintely needs something to help address War Weariness after the latest change. Even something indirect like giving them supply cap would help.

Freedom is nice but the individual tenets don't feel excessively strong. Iron fist for instance is an insane amount of yields, as is party leadership. Maybe an AI issue? We are also basing the whole AI picks freedom thing on a bug report which is not a balance issue and an anecdotal report from bite. Has anyone else had similar experience with with AI choice? I have not played enough games of VP to comment in general but I find China likes her order and her influence is strong enough that lots of other civs end up with order too.

 

[Questdog]

Realismn wise, order and autocracy were much more able to field troops into the battlefield than freedom orientated nations. I think GB and USA would have never allowed to send old man and children into the war like the Third Reich has done, or send wave over wave poorly trained and armed man into enemy fire like the sovjets have done.

If they were being invaded and the rest of their army had been devastated, then the USA and GB would have drafted old men for sure. No country forced old men and children into the fray until they were desperate and already losing.

 

[ElliotS]

So nerf Freedom is the general consensus.

No it isn't.

 

[Gazebo]

There is a log called 'PolicyAIYieldAttributesLog' that I created a while back that tracks specific yield values for policies when the AI is selecting. When I redid AI selection logic for ideologies, I had the AI actually go through and weigh the value of each ideological tenet and add them all up. If a particular attribute is being overweighted in this process, that may be why some people are seeing Freedom overselected. So, post this file to Github once you've seen ideologies in your games. Bonus points if you can find the offending tenet.

Thanks.

G

 

[Der_Zorn_gottes]

I noticed that even if I go for a complete domination victory, I am often better off with chosing Freedom or Order. Once you get rolling, the biggest problem for a warmonger is happiness, and Authority cant offer a lot here. Freedom on the other hand - just keeps your citizens calm while you batter down. Its just good in every situation.

 

[Micadi]

Hmmm, from PolicyAIYieldAttributesLog in my latest campaign
352, Indonesia, Universal Healthcare, Production, 41020
354, France, Universal Healthcare, Production, 40141
355, Chinook, Universal Healthcare, Production, 41020

other get usually 50-500 points

 

[Aristos]

Hmmm, from PolicyAIYieldAttributesLog in my latest campaign
352, Indonesia, Universal Healthcare, Production, 41020
354, France, Universal Healthcare, Production, 40141
355, Chinook, Universal Healthcare, Production, 41020

other get usually 50-500 points

Bernie Sanders infiltrated the AI!!!

 

[Gazebo]

Hmmm, from PolicyAIYieldAttributesLog in my latest campaign
352, Indonesia, Universal Healthcare, Production, 41020
354, France, Universal Healthcare, Production, 40141
355, Chinook, Universal Healthcare, Production, 41020

other get usually 50-500 points

That's most likely it - it was my suspect candidate as well.

Micadi is Gazebo's Most Valuable Forum Member of the Day

G

 

[Micadi]

That's most likely it - it was my suspect candidate as well.

Micadi is Gazebo's Most Valuable Forum Member of the Day

G

Thank you, been lurking on this site for 3 years before creating this account. And it seems it was worth to do it in the end haha. Btw, little later I also found this:
355, Polynesia, Universal Healthcare, Production, 35784090

Its even worse in some cases lol

Is it possible, that since I'm playing on ynaemp (giant map) with so many civs and because of it so many cities it is weighted even more in my games?

 

[YukiN]

Is it possible, that since I'm playing on ynaemp (giant map) with so many civs and because of it so many cities it is weighted even more in my games?

That particular tenet is not really different from air supremacy for instance. Going wide should also give an insane amount of yields from party leadership for instance. This quite a clear bug.