Processors and Civ4

kevinman4404

Lightning Warrior
Joined
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Hey, I am upgrading to a really nice computer, and I have a question about processors.

I want to get the Intel I7 processor, but I heard civ4 can use only one core.

My current processor is a P4 3.2GHz, and each core of the I7 is only 2.66 GHZ. Does this mean that I'm pretty much better off using my old processor? Will there be a big improvement with the I7? (otherwise whats the point?) Apparently, you're not supposed to spend big on processors when building a computer

Kevin
 
civ4 will only use a single core - you will only see any improvement at all if you are running processor time hugging processes in the background (or you have an operating system doing so...) - since those would migrate to the other core.
In general though I doubt that you'll see much improvement for this game. Would memory be equal in both machines?
 
well, the P4 is the computer I'm using right now. I'm just not sure if I should spend $330 for an I7 on a new computer or just get something cheaper, when the effect it has is minimal. It won't be worse for civ4 (at 2.66GHZ) will it?
 
I do not believe that it will be (noticeably) worse - but it will likely not be better. However if you increase the RAM at the same time you might actually find improvement, depending on what amount of RAM you currently have. Also some older graphics cards can affect performance, so it is difficult to judge from just one component...
 
Well, as a whole it will be better but my dilemna was whether or not it's worth spending over $300 for the I7.

Here is my computer now:
Windows XP(mce)
1Gb RAM
256Mb Radeon X300 (yuck!)
P4 3.2GHZ

I'm upgrading to something like:
Windows XP(mce)? I'm not sure if I should upgrade to 64 bit...
4 or 6 Gb RAM (more if I get a 64 bit os... I know you can only have up to 4 with a 32bit windows but some of it gets used up... as well I think it's triple channel so I might just get 6Gb, despite the limitation)
2Gb Nvidia Geforce 9600GT?
I7 2.66GHZ?

A couple of the choices I need help making:

2Gb Geforce 9600GT ($190)
1.8Gb Geforce GTX 260 ($311)
1Gb GTX 280 ($290)
1Gb Geforce 9800GTX ($196)

Based on these choices, would I be better off with a decent card with tons of memory, or a new card (ie GTX 280) with less memory?

and also, this choice...

Intel I7 2.66GHz ($325)(apparently the fastest but not as great with civ4)
AMD Phenom II X4 945 3GHz($325)(faster with civ4 but not as great with newer stuff as I7)
something cheaper
~~~
My biggest problem over the last couple of years has been the ATI x300 card I have... it is extremely prone to crashes and errors, with many games, especially civ4. And it's simply not keeping up. That is why I'm only really considering NVidia, I've never had any problems with nvidia cards in the past.

I need to be able to run my large map (something like 250x160), with up to 50 or 60 civs at the same time, without crashes or errors. And it will have a lot of resource-intensive custom graphics (unit art, etc.)

Anyways, I appreciate any opinions you have to offer on the above choices! And also, do you think it's worth switching to a 64bit OS? ATM though, for budget reasons, I'll probably be sticking with 32bit (I have to sacrifice something to not go way over my budget).
 
@kevinman4404:

Here's a little i7 factoid for you:

My partner has an i7 Extreme 965 Nehalem with 16 GB RAM, 2 Radeon 4870 X2 (That equals 4 4870 cards in Crossfire), and Velociraptor drives. She uses it to do work at home. She's a polymer chemist and runs some kind of molecule simulation software. (Don't ask) Being the wonderful person I am, I overclocked it for her a while ago. It runs at 4.2 GHz, you nearly have to bolt it to the desk to keep it from hovering, and she still complains that it is too slow. :crazyeye:

But she let me play Civ on it a few times. It certainly was nice, but it really isn't much faster than my Phenom system. (Phenom II 955 BE @ 3.7 GHz, 8 GB RAM, Radeon 3450 512 MB video card, and cheap drives.)

Her system cost almost $5000 CDN. Mine cost about $850. I looked at the system that you were thinking of, and by my best guess, it would be about $1400 with all of the goodies, and slower than my system. There's nothing wrong with Intel, but you can get comparable performance for less, and unless you absolutely need the hyperthreading capabilities for other stuff, you can get a good system for about half of what you are thinking of buying.

Ori is right, though. Civ only uses one core, but the OS runs on the others. It's nice, but just so that you know, the performance is the same as a dual core. When I burned my Athlon X2 and dropped in the new Phenom, I didn't notice any difference that I could really see.

Just a little heads up from someone who's comparison shopped. And if I'm good at anything, it's shopping. I have a closet full of shoes to prove it. :)
 
Alright, I'm also looking at the Phenom II X4 955 3.2GHz. However, it is only $30 less expensive. So I still really don't know which to get. I hope someone will sway me :)

I'm extremely curious- where did you come up with $550 price difference? The I7 would cost me $30 more, the memory would cost less, and the graphics card would cost me a bit more, I think. EDIT: oops, forgot about motherboard

What would make your system faster? The proccessor (though I7 is fast), or more memory?

And, do you have any opinions on the graphics choices? More memory, or newer card?
And I'm guessing by the fact you have all that RAM that you're running Vista or XP64, would you reccomend I switch to that or stick with normal XP?

thanks
 
I'm extremely curious- where did you come up with $550 price difference? The I7 would cost me $30 more, the memory would cost less, and the graphics card would cost me a bit more, I think. EDIT: oops, forgot about motherboard
Yes, you do need a very sexy motherboard to get the most out of an i7. Actually, I was mistakenly looking at the Nehalem that is one model up from the one you were looking at. It's around $630 or so. With the one you're looking at, the price of the system would be cheaper.
What would make your system faster? The proccessor (though I7 is fast), or more memory?
System speed is dependent on a few things. Using Civ, the only thing that really matters is raw clock speed, having enough RAM, and a decent video card. Clock for clock, a 2.6 GHz dual core will really be no slower than your new fancy i7 using similar equipment while playing Civ (that means no DDR3 RAM.) DDR3 will give the i7 an edge with Civ obviously, and a big boost to everything else. Where the i7 really shines, though, is in multithreaded apps. My machine runs almost as fast as my partner's, but when we did a comparision with some of her nifty software, her machine left mine in the dust. (The stuff we ran was graphic card independent, it was just raw number crunching. It had to be written by some very very geeky elves or something...) But clock speed and lots of RAM make anything faster. For gaming, having that isn't enough. You need a very good graphics card for some of the new games. If you don't, you wind up with a bottleneck. (Civ note: My Radeon HD 3450 cheapie only has about 40% untilization playing Civ in Hybrid Crossfire mode. I obviously don't need a sexy video card for Civ. :D)

I'm not an AMD fan-girl, but for me, there wasn't any point in spending the money for an i7. I'm not a real gamer, except for some card games and Civ, so I didn't really need a lot of power. I went quad because I sometimes do some video transcoding, and I got a little tired of the old dual core being so slow. And of course, I overclocked it too much and set it on fire trying to get some more performance out of it. :lol:
And, do you have any opinions on the graphics choices? More memory, or newer card?
Well, if you're going to be playing some of the newer games or have plans to run something with a lot of graphics requirements, you are going to need a good card. I'm told that graphics memory doesn't really matter above 512 MB, but I'm not sure about that. What is important is the interface to your card. My card is 64 bit, and it's fine for what I do. Many of the new cards have a 256 bit interface, and perform very well with pretty much anything. Just as an example, my sweetie has two of these:

http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102768

You can go a lot crazier than that if you want to. Buy the card which will give you the performance that you are looking for, without killing your budget. You have to weigh what your requirements are together with your budget. I've heard of some people paying upwards of $700 for a card, and then buying 3 more for quad Crossfire. :crazyeye: Who needs that kind of power? I'll bet you can fry an egg on the top of that case, too. :lol:
And I'm guessing by the fact you have all that RAM that you're running Vista or XP64, would you reccomend I switch to that or stick with normal XP?
I'm running Vista HP 64, and I have had zero problems with it. (With the exception of Firefox. Service pack 2 broke it. Big surprise there. :lol:) If you really want to get the most out of a big quad core system, you need a 64 bit OS. I would be reluctant to get XP64 because MS may not support it for much longer, but that's a personal opinion. YMMV.

Also, with Nvidia cards, I have noticed a whole buch of people posting on CFC about issues with Vista and graphics problems. Many of these people have Nvidia cards. I've done some research with our room mate (electrical engineer and really smart guy), and it seems that Nvidia has had driver issues with Vista for a while. They make very good cards, and it wouldn't stop me from buying one, but it is something to consider.


Good luck with your system. :)

-LM
 
thank you for the advice. Please pm me when you finish that vista/civ4 guide!

Kevin
 
I'm about to check the same thing. Going from an P4 @ 3.2Ghz to an i7 920.

Full specs are:
i7 920 2.66Ghz
GTS 250
8GB RAM
Windows Vista

I'll let you know how it runs once I complete a game.
 
cool, thank you
 
thank you for the advice. Please pm me when you finish that vista/civ4 guide!

Kevin
I set it aside for a while, due to r/l mayhem, but I'm going to get back at it next week! :)
 
Okay, I have a large Terra map going with 10 civs (now 12 as people granted independence to colonies), no mods, and in turn like 350 and it seems to be flying through turns so far. Virtually no wait at all in between turns. However, I do not think my first test was stressful enough on it.

So for my next game, I will probably either play on a Huge map with like 20 civs, or begin seeing how demanding mods like Rhye's of Civilization will run.
 
A great test is GEM (Giant Earth Map), that way you have all 32? civs playing at once on a larger than huge map.
 
I went from a Athlon XP 1.5 Ghz/6600GT 128/3 GB to Intel Core i7 920 2.6 ghz/HD 4870 512/6 GB and the game is up to 5 x faster but better still smoother. Also I used to play Road-to-War Mod with winter effects turned off and now I have them turned on, and it is still faster.

NOTE: The core i7 has better caches, memory bandwidth etc. which would have helped significantly.
 
Sigh. CPU frequency does not equal CPU speed
You are, of course, correct, but why the disdain?

You realize that most of the people posting in the tech support forum are not quite "power users", don't you? The average computer user usually equates CPU frequency with the amount of power a computer has, and in the simplest of terms, that is correct and is an easy way to explain it to someone who is not well versed in the technology. It makes comparison easy for the non-illuminati.

Why not contribute something positive to the thread?
 
i know it'S been i while with this post.

but maybe it fits best here.

i have a new i7 with 6gb dd3 ram (so it's using the tri-chan) and grafic card ist gtx 280.

there is now really enough ram an processor performance here...

but i think it's not using it.


does anyone ever played a giant map without wating minutes for rounds in late game?

is there a possibility to give the game more powe? - cause my performance monitor tells me - my processor and rams are sleeping when working with civ.

greets form austria :)
 
Unfortunately the game is not multicore aware so it won't use more than 100% of one core. I think Win 7 will allow it to use all the cores on a quad core processor, but still only up to 25%, the equivalent of using 1 core at 100%. Unless the issue a major patch for this (as unlikely as all the molecules in a brick moving upwards at the same time so that it appears to be flying) we'll have to wait for Civ 5 for something to be able to use all the processing power that it out there.
 
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