Procylon's Call to Power Project

[ikillu64]

OK, just trying on Marathon now. I've started a game on a large map, continents, 12 players. I've put my first city down and I'm working a flood plain tile. I need 140 turns to make a monument and about the same amount to make a worker.

I don't understand what's going on. Why's production taking so long? I can understand the slower pace but I don't understand why I simply can't build anything for the first 2,000 years of the game.

I meant standard time.

 

[Soddball]

Seriously, I don't think that's the problem. The problem that I appear to be having is that I can't see any realistic way to keep up with the 'historical' time frame. By about 500BC I should have bronze working, two or three units, perhaps a second city, yes? Would that seem reasonable?

Well, I haven't managed that. I admit I could just be rubbish at the game.

I've just run through 67 turns on a Marathon game which takes me from 4000BC to 2995BC. In that time I have:

Built half a worker
Developed 1 technology
Expanded my city border by 1 hex
Raised enough money to pay for half a warrior.

Maybe it's me, maybe it's the version I'm playing. But it appears that the game turns are ticking along at speed X and the speed that I can do stuff is ticking along at X/2.

 

[Sneaks]

That does sound really problematic, even for marathon. I would certainly say that as it stands, I doubt this mod balances well for any speed that is not standard.

 

[Decimatus]

Started an all standard renaissance game, I was also unable to see the new boats on non resource tiles. The research production sink needs to be nerfed, I almost quadrupled my science when my top production city went research. 5% or maybe even less would be good. Starting gold for that era is a bit obscene. I spent fairly slowly, but was still able to rule all demographics with over half of my original 100000(or was it a million?) still banked. That starting bank was enough for a dozens of settlers, or hundreds of workers, or a combination. Gold and production seem much more balanced overall. Though I think food still needs some work to slow growth slightly. Did you mean to have both the windmill and the mill(which pictures a windmill)? For unit gold maintenance, I think 10 gold per column from agriculture would fit. So warrior would be 5 since it's available at start, and every other military unit would be a multiple of ten, and late units would cost over 100 each.

Looking into the fishing boats thing.

Yeah the start gold was left over from some high maintenance days. Lowered it.

Research processed dropped to 5% from 25%. Should still be significant. Let me know if it is too low.

I am not sure if I am going to remove the windmill in favor of the more generic mill. Will leave them both in until I decide what to do.

If you are starting in Renaissance the growth will definitely feel pretty high. How about starting in Ancient?

That could be a good formula for maintenance. Would probably try to give bigger raises with new eras as well. Also, units that require a resource building might be even higher.

Seriously, I don't think that's the problem. The problem that I appear to be having is that I can't see any realistic way to keep up with the 'historical' time frame. By about 500BC I should have bronze working, two or three units, perhaps a second city, yes? Would that seem reasonable?

Well, I haven't managed that. I admit I could just be rubbish at the game.

I've just run through 67 turns on a Marathon game which takes me from 4000BC to 2995BC. In that time I have:

Built half a worker
Developed 1 technology
Expanded my city border by 1 hex
Raised enough money to pay for half a warrior.

Maybe it's me, maybe it's the version I'm playing. But it appears that the game turns are ticking along at speed X and the speed that I can do stuff is ticking along at X/2.

Try the standard speed.

Should be able to build a monument, a worker, maybe a settler, and get a wonder knocked out by 500bc. If that isn't happening, I could use some numbers on the size and total production in your capital city.

 

[Decimatus]

FiresForever, if I have different xml for each page of policies, will that mess up your ID system or how your lua handles it?

Also, I have the order I need the ideologies in:

Pacifism
Imperialism
Populism
Capitalism
Liberalism
Conservatism
Nationalism
Socialism
Anarchism
Environmentalism

 

[chrome-rome]

I think I got as far as I can/will. My last save game was turn 185; I had played till 200. Unfortunately my autosaves dont work, so I would have to stat 15 turns back if I wanted to pick up the game. I might still do that though, as the game was exceptionally good. You know that point in a game where you know you have everything wrapped up? I never got there

I played as Rome, large map, 8 civs, 12 CS, pangaea, standard speed. My government trial went Republic, Democracy, Corporate. I was really tempted to hit one of the Industrial Era techs for the production boom, but in the end growth won out.

Demographics
I was first in everything that mattered except for production (4th) and soldiers (7th). I have reason to suspect that I was only ahead by a slight margin, because every civ was well advanced and most built wonders before I could even research the accompanying tech.

Science
Same deal here: at times I felt I blasted through the techs. Interestingly though, each era actually felt like an era.

In terms of balance, the public school is overpowered. The turn before I built it, my capital was at 93 science. That jumped to 167 afterwards. I think 1 science per pop would be good; for my capital, I would have went to 130. Or something else would be to put it deeper into the science page as one of the dead-end techs. The player would have to make an effort to get there, sacrificing more prudent techs, but the rewards would be great.

For the branches, I found myself avoiding the Social page. The benefits for the other policies were much better for the game I was playing. The way I see it, Social is good in the beginning when trying to stay happiness possitive; once that stops being an issue, Social stops being a priority. Every so often I would go through and one-shot the techs just to make sure I had a healthy culture spread for my cities but that's it.

Gold
Seems pretty balanced to me. Yes, I made about 10K/turn right before I switched to Corporation, but the prices for everything went up to. That money actually went by really fast after upgrades, tile purchases (the lowest was 550), and rush-buys. No complaints here.

Production
Still love the pace. However, I noticed that chopping forest only give 15-25 production. In the later stages it isn't even noticeable. Unfortunately, the game crashed before I could get the production boost of Corporate.

CTDs
Some might already realize this, but the game crashes when you "see" more area too fast. When I was conquering the Spanish lands, I captured the capital, which made my game crash. When I zoomed in before the attack, everything was fine (I would advise not hitting the "View City" button). This is unimportant in the early game, but as the ai get more and more advanced, zooming in can save you a lot of restarts. Ironically, this is the reason why I crashed out.

Random
City-State quest give 50 influence, as do Great Merchants. Doesn't seem worth it when I can buy several hundred for a couple of 1000.

Already mentioned forest chops.

Boats still invisible. I looked at the code but couldn't spot anything bad there, and I know it's not other mods conflicting because I started a new game with only this mod and they still weren't there. Not game-breaking, but definitely irritating.

 

[FiresForever]

FiresForever, if I have different xml for each page of policies, will that mess up your ID system or how your lua handles it?

Also, I have the order I need the ideologies in:

Pacifism
Imperialism
Populism
Capitalism
Liberalism
Conservatism
Nationalism
Socialism
Anarchism
Environmentalism

As long as the XML files are set to load in line with the Id order I don't see any problem. Will get to work moving the branches around when I get back home

 

[Decimatus]

I think I got as far as I can/will. My last save game was turn 185; I had played till 200. Unfortunately my autosaves dont work, so I would have to stat 15 turns back if I wanted to pick up the game. I might still do that though, as the game was exceptionally good. You know that point in a game where you know you have everything wrapped up? I never got there

I played as Rome, large map, 8 civs, 12 CS, pangaea, standard speed. My government trial went Republic, Democracy, Corporate. I was really tempted to hit one of the Industrial Era techs for the production boom, but in the end growth won out.

Part of the Public School science is actually coming from your university and any other % science mods you have in the city. Could still be too high though. I am more interested in tech per turn as well as the general calendar year in which you reach the next era as a result of building public schools.

I will see if I can find the chop forest production and tweak the quest influence gained.

As long as the XML files are set to load in line with the Id order I don't see any problem. Will get to work moving the branches around when I get back home

Cool, I can make that happen. Though I am sure I will forget about it months from now and be wondering why the policies won't work.

 

[ikillu64]

I agree with the other poster on not being able to play marathon very well with this mod, so I started to work on the game speeds and after 3 hours of changing and testing I did it. I only worked on marathon and I probably won't work on epic either. Its not perfect and I would like to hear feedback and maybe even get this integrated. Here are the values (lower means faster):

Spoiler :

Growth Percent(how fast cities grow): 250

Train Percent(how fast units are built): 100

Construct Percent(how fast wonders are built): 200

Create Percent(not sure): 200

Research Percent(how fast you research): 300

Build Percent(how fast you build buildings): 150

Improvement Percent(you would think this is for how fast improvements are made but it doesn't seem to change that): 150

Culture Percent(How much culture you need for a policy): 150

Feature Production Percent(not sure): 150

Golden Age Percent(how long golden ages are): 300

To use in this mod just go to your CtP mod folder (Computer/Local Disk/Users/YOUR NAME/Documents/My Games/ Sid Meier's Civilization 5/MODS/Procylon Call To Power for Windows 7) then replace the CIV5GameSpeeds.xml with mine.

 

[chrome-rome]

Part of the Public School science is actually coming from your university and any other % science mods you have in the city. Could still be too high though. I am more interested in tech per turn as well as the general calendar year in which you reach the next era as a result of building public schools.

Oh I see. Well I was going through late industrial techs like electricity in three turns. Actually, most of the techs took three turns. I honestly don't remember how much science is was putting out each turn; the best I can say is 600-800. Granted I was in Democracy so that accounts for a chunk of it, and I had a substantial amount of land to work with. I reached Modern Era on turn 198, which corresponds to 1380AD. Generally though, the calander date is not a good measure; I again had an ai reach Classical in the first 10 turns.

 

[Decimatus]

I agree with the other poster on not being able to play marathon very well with this mod, so I started to work on the game speeds and after 3 hours of changing and testing I did it. I only worked on marathon and I probably won't work on epic either. Its not perfect and I would like to hear feedback and maybe even get this integrated. Here are the values (lower means faster):

Spoiler :

Growth Percent(how fast cities grow): 250

Train Percent(how fast units are built): 100

Construct Percent(how fast wonders are built): 200

Create Percent(not sure): 200

Research Percent(how fast you research): 300

Build Percent(how fast you build buildings): 150

Improvement Percent(you would think this is for how fast improvements are made but it doesn't seem to change that): 150

Culture Percent(How much culture you need for a policy): 150

Feature Production Percent(not sure): 150

Golden Age Percent(how long golden ages are): 300

To use in this mod just go to your CtP mod folder (Computer/Local Disk/Users/YOUR NAME/Documents/My Games/ Sid Meier's Civilization 5/MODS/Procylon Call To Power for Windows 7) then replace the CIV5GameSpeeds.xml with mine.

I can implement this. I balance to Standard, so if you guys feel there are some better rates for Marathon I am open to implementation.

Oh I see. Well I was going through late industrial techs like electricity in three turns. Actually, most of the techs took three turns. I honestly don't remember how much science is was putting out each turn; the best I can say is 600-800. Granted I was in Democracy so that accounts for a chunk of it, and I had a substantial amount of land to work with. I reached Modern Era on turn 198, which corresponds to 1380AD. Generally though, the calander date is not a good measure; I again had an ai reach Classical in the first 10 turns.

1380 is quite a bit early. How many cities? Marathon speed or other?

 

[Decimatus]

FiresForever, the current tooltips for the Gov Ideologies shows the info for the Vanilla policies. This is when you mouse over the name of the branch. When you mouse over the Adopt button, it shows a broken text string coming from the correct policy(as expected).

Also, I reordered the branches and policies in the xml's(so Socialism's tooltip is coming from Pacifism which will be the first branch on the page for instance), so you should only need to change it on your end.

 

[FiresForever]

FiresForever, the current tooltips for the Gov Ideologies shows the info for the Vanilla policies. This is when you mouse over the name of the branch. When you mouse over the Adopt button, it shows a broken text string coming from the correct policy(as expected).

I completely forgot about changing those

Also, I reordered the branches and policies in the xml's(so Socialism's tooltip is coming from Pacifism which will be the first branch on the page for instance), so you should only need to change it on your end.

ok when you are ready upload a test version, i will fix everything then upload it back to you

 

[Decimatus]

I completely forgot about changing those



ok when you are ready upload a test version, i will fix everything then upload it back to you

I can't get the sub-policies to show up either, so I am not sure if that is related to one of these other issues. I will upload it and post a link in a minute.

 

[Decimatus]

Its up:

http://www.mediafire.com/?z98zxrsfkn82r0c

 

[FiresForever]

ah ok i see what you have done, basically the free policies ID numbers need to match the branches ID numbers, that's why i had the note there saying not to touch these

I will pull the free policies out and put them into a separate file and renumber the policies, then sort out the branches order so will be a little while

 

[Cross Cowboy]

I play in Marathon mode almost the whole time and I have to say I like the pacing. Even as I inch closer to Modern era, its taking about 8-10 turns for techs and i notice them inching up as i go. Im in a democracy right now. Ill give you my stats(I normally do this on the 2K site, but since im here)

Turn 707 Year 1624AD(Industrial Era full democracy slotted) +1374 Science 26213g/turn 147 HF(Happy Faces) +673 culture 18 total cities with 3 at 30+(highest is 32 and all 3 are coastal).

I did try and make a serious attempt at getting to wonders that both helped me build them thru Engineers and also for the Science wonders as well. I wanted to really go for Great people and see how much they would help the game. So far Scientists and Engineers are born alot, but Artists and Merchants arent. I ve only gotten to 1 Artists so far and no Merchants, which is very strange since I do have buildings and wonders that help out both. Im thinking that maybe they just arent as numerous as Engineers and Scientists.

I also like on the Tech screen the little quotes down there! Anyone know how many there are total? Really a nice touch i think.

Also, as on your 2k page, fishing boats arent appearing on normal water tiles. They do show up on the resource ones.

 

[Decimatus]

ah ok i see what you have done, basically the free policies ID numbers need to match the branches ID numbers, that's why i had the note there saying not to touch these

I will pull the free policies out and put them into a separate file and renumber the policies, then sort out the branches order so will be a little while

Ah, was probably the one note I didn't read.

Sounds good. I am going to start conjuring up some bonuses.

 

[Cross Cowboy]

There is also still a CTD with mouse scrolling, because it just happened as i grabbed the screen with my mouse and tried to move it. Thats what happened on my other CTD's as well now that I think about it. Is this a problem with my mouse then, bad drivers for it or just 2k not having caught all the little things?

 

[Decimatus]

I play in Marathon mode almost the whole time and I have to say I like the pacing. Even as I inch closer to Modern era, its taking about 8-10 turns for techs and i notice them inching up as i go. Im in a democracy right now. Ill give you my stats(I normally do this on the 2K site, but since im here)

Turn 707 Year 1624AD(Industrial Era full democracy slotted) +1374 Science 26213g/turn 147 HF(Happy Faces) +673 culture 18 total cities with 3 at 30+(highest is 32 and all 3 are coastal).

I did try and make a serious attempt at getting to wonders that both helped me build them thru Engineers and also for the Science wonders as well. I wanted to really go for Great people and see how much they would help the game. So far Scientists and Engineers are born alot, but Artists and Merchants arent. I ve only gotten to 1 Artists so far and no Merchants, which is very strange since I do have buildings and wonders that help out both. Im thinking that maybe they just arent as numerous as Engineers and Scientists.

I also like on the Tech screen the little quotes down there! Anyone know how many there are total? Really a nice touch i think.

Also, as on your 2k page, fishing boats arent appearing on normal water tiles. They do show up on the resource ones.

Sounds pretty good. If you have been passing over most of the art/merchant wonders, then it is good that you are getting few of those GP's. If there needs to be more of those wonders in general I will have to look into expanding upon them later.

Yeah quotes are always nice to see. It's why I have always taken the time to research a quote with each tech and wonder. If more are needed for the tech pages you could always compile the quotes from the rest of the mod and have them cycle through there as well.

Yeah I think I have solved the boats issue. Not sure why they broke, but they are showing up for me now. I will make sure they are still working before I upload tonight.