Procylon's Call to Power Project

[ThoricFrame]

I'm not quite sure how sub policies work when changing trees, but assuming you lose the whole tree when you switch to something incompatible you can come up with some pretty gross combinations. So many options make balancing a pain in the ass I'm sure...

Gov. - Facism (Discipline) -> Specialists eat half food [5 -> 2.5]
Gov. Ideology - Capitalism (Labor Market) -> Half unhappiness from specialists
Gov. System - Plutocracy (Economic Inequality) -> Half specialist unhappiness

Due to the way the bonuses stack that would mean that without any other multipliers specialists make zero unhappy, and eat 2.5 food. Combine that with a beef vat (okay, sure it's super late game I know) and each specialist eats a net -0.5 food. Unlimited specialists!

I'll throw in another one that doesn't appear to conflict but I can't be too sure as I haven't played this version long enough.
Gov. System - Federalism (Federal Courts) -> Half specialist unhappiness
Combined with the others means specialists produce an extra 0.5 food and 0.5 happy than they use (before any other modifiers).

You'd probably just miss out on so many other good policies trying to do it that it wouldn't be worth it in the end.

 

[FiresForever]

All strategic resources sounds like a sweet idea

Also can you make strategic resources that don't get placed onto the map? as this would work out quite nicely for the space section

 

[Decimatus]

I'm not quite sure how sub policies work when changing trees, but assuming you lose the whole tree when you switch to something incompatible you can come up with some pretty gross combinations. So many options make balancing a pain in the ass I'm sure...

Gov. - Facism (Discipline) -> Specialists eat half food [5 -> 2.5]
Gov. Ideology - Capitalism (Labor Market) -> Half unhappiness from specialists
Gov. System - Plutocracy (Economic Inequality) -> Half specialist unhappiness

Due to the way the bonuses stack that would mean that without any other multipliers specialists make zero unhappy, and eat 2.5 food. Combine that with a beef vat (okay, sure it's super late game I know) and each specialist eats a net -0.5 food. Unlimited specialists!

I'll throw in another one that doesn't appear to conflict but I can't be too sure as I haven't played this version long enough.
Gov. System - Federalism (Federal Courts) -> Half specialist unhappiness
Combined with the others means specialists produce an extra 0.5 food and 0.5 happy than they use (before any other modifiers).

You'd probably just miss out on so many other good policies trying to do it that it wouldn't be worth it in the end.

That could potentially be the case, though I am unsure how those bonuses stack against each other.

Even if the combination does give you free specialists for happiness, I don't necessarily see a problem with it. And the Beef Vat is basically supposed to equal unlimited food anyway, so that is fine.

If some of these bonuses seem to collide to early in the game with dramatic effects, I will consider changing or moving them around. Any data will be helpful.

All strategic resources sounds like a sweet idea

Also can you make strategic resources that don't get placed onto the map? as this would work out quite nicely for the space section

Currently my only planned non-standard resource is HE-3. It is theorized that it could be found in "large" quantities on the moon and in gas giants. Also some theories that you could find it in the deep ocean or deep in the crust.

So, HE3 may show up as a resource at the bottom of the seabed, but that is a ways away.

I may add some other space age mine-able resources just to have them, but I would have to think long and hard on what those might be. I don't really want to add things like Dilithium Crystals, as that would be pretty lame. I think beyond HE3 though, it's all SciFi.

More to the question, I do plan on adding build-able resources. Probably as soon as I flesh out the trade monopoly system. The build-ables won't tie directly into the trade monopoly system I think, but they will lubricate other areas of the economy and provide other fun mechanics. Build-ables such as Electricity, or even possibly Ethanol/etc for Oil alternatives.

I was going to add techs first, but I figured that I could kill 2 birds with one stone by implementing the trade monopoly system which of course needs a tech per resource to fit the buildings. It will add about 40 techs to the economic tech tree, which is almost enough to fill out 2 eras.

I am not entirely happy with the tech names necessarily as they are somewhat redundant, but I think the gameplay component should be pretty good and will fill a good portion of the early Economic Tech Tree.

I could possibly have 1 tech with most of the resource buildings, but you would end up having dozens of buildings associated with that 1 tech. So, I will branch it out, 1 resource monopoly/5 buildings per tech.

The building names will be as such:

Small Pearl Market, Medium Pearl Market, Large Pearl Market, Huge Pearl Market, Pearl Monopoly(National Wonder requiring 2 Huge Pearl Markets).

The tech names will likely be generic in nature, such as "Pearl Markets", though I am thinking of branching a little more if I can get the names right.


Perhaps the most noticeable thing about the new resource system may be that you see resources everywhere. Literally. As a result of this, I may scale back some of the base yields on the terrain to take into account all the extra resources. I will have to figure out the balance once I have all the resources added, and it may not be so bad once I get them properly assigned to their terrain booleans and balanced in quantity.

 

[FiresForever]

This is how i think monopolies could be implemented, instead of doing a monopoly for a single resource, and having the generic small, big, large, it could be groups of resources more like corporations i suppose:
This is an example of a food monopoly:

• market

lead to

• Fish monger (requires 1 fish)
• butcher (Requires 1 cattle),
• bread shop (requires 1 wheat)
• etc.

When you have one of each of these in your city you can build:

• Supermarket

Having one of these in each city leads to the wonder (or national wonder):

• Supermarket Chain

 

[chrome-rome]

Perhaps the most noticeable thing about the new resource system may be that you see resources everywhere. Literally. As a result of this, I may scale back some of the base yields on the terrain to take into account all the extra resources. I will have to figure out the balance once I have all the resources added, and it may not be so bad once I get them properly assigned to their terrain booleans and balanced in quantity.

Not necessarily a bad thing. My biggest frustrations usually come from placing costal cities, only to find that I can't make a Seaport. The only thing I would say would be to make sure that the big majority of these resources are fish, because if everyone has both pearls and whales then there would be no way to trade.

This is how i think monopolies could be implemented, instead of doing a monopoly for a single resource, and having the generic small, big, large, it could be groups of resources more like corporations i suppose:
This is an example of a food monopoly:
market
lead to
Fish monger (requires 1 fish)
butcher (Requires 1 cattle),
bread shop (requires 1 wheat)
etc.
When you have one of each of these in your city you can build:
Supermarket
Having one of these in each city leads to the wonder (or national wonder):
Supermarket Chain

I don't think they would represent a monopoly if a variety of resources are used. Now if you have several locations with 4+ of a certain resource, say wheat and silver, then it would be cool to combine the monopolies to create something new. Granted, this is something "in addition" and is probably long-range, if at all.

Btw D, how exactly will monopolies work? Will a civ that has a monopoly prevent other civs from having resources unless they come from them? In which case, that would have some serious bonuses for military conquest; just imagine your civ being the only one who can use iron. However, I think the .dll will be needed before the ai recognize how to use this system.

 

[FiresForever]

I don't think they would represent a monopoly if a variety of resources are used.

What i am trying to get at is you can have a monopoly even if you don't necessarily have a monopoly of the raw resource. eg you can have a media monopoly without having a monopoly in logging or in paper production, you can have a monopoly in chocolate production but without having a monopoly in cocoa farming or tinfoil production.

As an example The east india company had a trade monopoly and they traded all kinds of resources from lots of different suppliers to get it.

A media monopoly could increase your cities happiness but decrease all others, A Gun production monopoly could make your units cheaper while increasing the cost for other civs, etc. I know these effects probably are not able to be done atm but still i think it would be cool

 

[Sneaks]

I would hold off on the monopoly system for now. The AI will literally not get it.

 

[Gilgamesch]

I would hold off on the monopoly system for now. The AI will literally not get it.

I think the new upcoming patch, comes first than all further changes for ctp. How know what the changes for modders will bring. So maybe d: with the patch you can improve your policies first?


MODDING

* Added support for policies that provide culture from kills
* Added support for policies that provide extra culture from cultural improvements
* Added support for policies that provide extra embarked movement
* Added support for policies that provide free Great People
* Online Panel now displays TOTAL downloads for a mod and not just the downloads for that specific version.
* When you click on a mod in the online browser, you may now use a dropdown to select a previous version.
* Added Line Control for modders to use when creating graphs, etc.

 

[Sneaks]

Well I do know that systems like monopolies would require a very specific AI set of algorithms to understand why they are important and how to work towards getting them.

The only massive gameplay changes that work right now are one of the following:
1. An extension of a current dynamic - such as adding more policy branches. The AI can get this as it is simply more rows in a table to sort through when making its choices.
2. Automatic functions that only require basic reaction - things like random events fall under this
3. A new dynamic that uses a ruleset that already exists - CS Diplomacy mod is an example of this. Creating a religion system that simply treats religion as a yield would do this.

 

[Gilgamesch]

I like the idea of mighty monopols who rule the world, but i am going with sneak, unless the dll will open the ai will go crazy, the ai is poor enough at the moment.

 

[Azazell]

This mod version v8 is compatible with WWGD (v 4) ??

 

[Sneaks]

To make it work with WWGD v4, delete the PolicyFlavors file in the WWGD folder.

 

[Decimatus]

This is how i think monopolies could be implemented, instead of doing a monopoly for a single resource, and having the generic small, big, large, it could be groups of resources more like corporations i suppose:
This is an example of a food monopoly:

• market

lead to

• Fish monger (requires 1 fish)
• butcher (Requires 1 cattle),
• bread shop (requires 1 wheat)
• etc.

When you have one of each of these in your city you can build:

• Supermarket

Having one of these in each city leads to the wonder (or national wonder):

• Supermarket Chain

That is one method, but it doesn't create the system I am looking for. Basically, the Monopoly system gets you to really covet every last copy of a resource, especially if you already have a few. Enough to make you look across the border and decide you need to fight a war just for that one city because it has what you need.

CtP had a Caravan system that had trade routes snaking all over the map, which is what I would prefer. Until such a system is made, I think the buildings will be able to fill that role in a decent way.

Not necessarily a bad thing. My biggest frustrations usually come from placing costal cities, only to find that I can't make a Seaport. The only thing I would say would be to make sure that the big majority of these resources are fish, because if everyone has both pearls and whales then there would be no way to trade.

For sure, there are not enough ocean resources. Crab will be added to the mix, and I can probably use the resource generator to throw some extra fish, pearls, and whales in there too.

You likely won't have a scenario where you have enough of a resource. For a full monopoly, you are going to need at least 9 of 1 resource, which may be tough to do. And you can always build more of the 4th level buildings if you get enough resources. So basically you will be trying to trade enough resources to fill your gaps, bring you up to the monopoly point.

And with a large number of resources, there will likely be many areas that you can look at for that monopoly.

Btw D, how exactly will monopolies work? Will a civ that has a monopoly prevent other civs from having resources unless they come from them? In which case, that would have some serious bonuses for military conquest; just imagine your civ being the only one who can use iron. However, I think the .dll will be needed before the ai recognize how to use this system.

It isn't quite that strict of a monopoly, and not necessarily a world monopoly. You could think of it more as a regional monopoly. Think Detroit(cars), Pittsburgh(Steel), Houston(Oil), etc.

What i am trying to get at is you can have a monopoly even if you don't necessarily have a monopoly of the raw resource. eg you can have a media monopoly without having a monopoly in logging or in paper production, you can have a monopoly in chocolate production but without having a monopoly in cocoa farming or tinfoil production.

As an example The east india company had a trade monopoly and they traded all kinds of resources from lots of different suppliers to get it.

A media monopoly could increase your cities happiness but decrease all others, A Gun production monopoly could make your units cheaper while increasing the cost for other civs, etc. I know these effects probably are not able to be done atm but still i think it would be cool

Non-Resource related monopolies could be cool to have at one point. Especially since they could help fill out more of the economic tech tree. As soon as the system is available I will look into integrating it.

I would hold off on the monopoly system for now. The AI will literally not get it.

I think I can give them good incentive to build the buildings, but you are right that they won't be looking across the border specifically for resources. Of course they attack often enough as it is, so I am not sure that would change anything anyway.

What I have to make sure to do, is to get them to build more higher level monopoly buildings before building extra lower level.

I think the new upcoming patch, comes first than all further changes for ctp. How know what the changes for modders will bring. So maybe d: with the patch you can improve your policies first?

I am going to have to look at the patch notes after work, but I don't think it is going to change my plans.

* Added support for policies that provide culture from kills
* Added support for policies that provide extra culture from cultural improvements
* Added support for policies that provide extra embarked movement
* Added support for policies that provide free Great People
* Online Panel now displays TOTAL downloads for a mod and not just the downloads for that specific version.
* When you click on a mod in the online browser, you may now use a dropdown to select a previous version.
* Added Line Control for modders to use when creating graphs, etc.

There are only 3 things that interest me here and I can add them all in 5-10 minutes. With everything already set up, making changes to bonuses isn't really a big deal. And these new bonuses are nice, but probably won't cause many changes in the policies. Maybe some in Theocracy and 1-2 other branches, but that is about it.

The only massive gameplay changes that work right now are one of the following:
1. An extension of a current dynamic - such as adding more policy branches. The AI can get this as it is simply more rows in a table to sort through when making its choices.
2. Automatic functions that only require basic reaction - things like random events fall under this
3. A new dynamic that uses a ruleset that already exists - CS Diplomacy mod is an example of this. Creating a religion system that simply treats religion as a yield would do this.

Monopolies merely expands upon 2 pre-existing dynamics. Resources and buildings. And a bit of diplomacy of course. I know I can handle the building part, and the resources probably have some AI adjustments somewhere. The diplomacy might have some values I can tweak but it has enough problems anyway.

Monopolies aren't going to be so new that the AI will be completely left out in the cold. Just have to give the AI the right incentive to acquire resources, and they should be building the buildings as soon as they can.

 

[Gilgamesch]

Another point! I love the way you include the monuments of the world. So i like the nasca wonder at all ( and the real history), but some wonders are still missing like the Tiahuanaco Culture(10 500 bc. - 4050 v. bc) The Sungate. And the near region Pumu Puncu and his ruins even make a good start to adding a prehistoric era (10000bc or else).
So the history begins not even with sumer, in fact the history begins 10000 ago
Not only the vedas say that.

 

[Sneaks]

For those interested, I created a chatroom to discuss Civ V Modding in general, as well as a place to get faster feedback from Modders when they are online:

http://www.meebo.com/room/civmod/
password is fanatic

You do need to create a meebo account(or possibly use AIM, MSN, etc) to get in.

 

[Decimatus]

Anyone have decent experience with AssignStartingPlots.lua and some time on their hands?

I intend to remove all resource related code from the file, and use the resource generator to apply all game resources.

I might be able to do this myself, but as gargantuan as the file is, I have a feeling I would remove or alter some key line, or otherwise completely break the game.

Basically I want greater control over all resource placement in the game, as well as needing to remove the standard resource placement so that I can make all existing resources strategic, give them quantities, etc.

Alternately, if removing resources from the file is not feasible, then I need the resources converted to strategic and their stack values changed.

Another point! I love the way you include the monuments of the world. So i like the nasca wonder at all ( and the real history), but some wonders are still missing like the Tiahuanaco Culture(10 500 bc. - 4050 v. bc) The Sungate. And the near region Pumu Puncu and his ruins even make a good start to adding a prehistoric era (10000bc or else).
So the history begins not even with sumer, in fact the history begins 10000 ago
Not only the vedas say that.

Someday I may add a prehistoric era, but that is a long way off. Until then, Sumer/4000 BC is about the start of the timeline for most additions.

For those interested, I created a chatroom to discuss Civ V Modding in general, as well as a place to get faster feedback from Modders when they are online:

http://www.meebo.com/room/civmod/
password is fanatic

You do need to create a meebo account(or possibly use AIM, MSN, etc) to get in.

Cool, I will check this out when I have time.

 

[TanisX]

Have you tried to just comment out the all the plot:SetResourceType in AssignStartingPlots.lua?

 

[Decimatus]

Have you tried to just comment out the all the plot:SetResourceType in AssignStartingPlots.lua?

I might try that tomorrow after I get past my current bump in the road. I have 9 new resources added currently, with 4 more to go. Titanium broke the entire file for no reason, so I have to investigate.

If deleting all the resources does work, it will probably take me a day or two to finish adding all the resources back into the game.

 

[MasterJ]

hmmm about ressource i lost the default list (vanilla) have ....
can anyone send me a reminder

oil and petrol are already added right?

 

[Buddha2723]

Current Strategics: Coal, Iron, Horses, Oil, Aluminum, Uranium

Current Luxuries: Dyes, silk, cotton, grapes(wines), pearls, whales, furs, incense, spices, gold, silver, gems, marble, ivory, sugar

Food resources: Wheat, sheep, deer, fish, cattle, bananas

D's additions(that I know of): Titanium(strategic), crab(food or luxury), HE3(strategic), cocoa(luxury)?

My own hopeful list: Copper(strategic), corn(food), rice(food), shrimp(food; on coast only), crawfish(food; in lake or marsh only), alligators(luxury), timber(strategic), hardwoods(luxury), llamas(food), ostriches(food), otters(luxury), lions(luxury), sharks(luxury), pandas(luxury), tigers(luxury), rhinos(luxury), citrus(luxury or food), potatoes(food) * , hot peppers(luxury), goats(food, mountain only), moose(food, tundra only), penguin(luxury, snow only), polar bears(luxury, snow only), garlic(food)

Notes: The luxury animals are meant to work with camps or boats, and allow or improve the new buildings of zoo and aquarium. Timber can be required for early siege units, early gunpowder units(wooden stocks), and pre-industrial navies. Other than that I tried to give a mix of everything, and make many resources(like tigers, pandas, lions, alligators, etc.) specific to a single continent, as I'm guessing that's part of the assigning process during map generation. Maybe in the distant future certain resources can have random events tied to them, potato famines and droughts and mad cow for land food, or oil spills for sea resources.