Procylon's Call to Power Project

[Verenti]

And both use nanotech, your point? Besides, at this point we know diamond isn't that material of the future, it is graphene and nanotubes. We have even found materials harder than diamond.

Its just a name that references the end era of CtP. The Graphene Era doesn't sound as cool as the Diamond Era.

MY POINT is that the Diamond Age from CtP, is a direct reference to a book, and the concept only exists inside that book. Diamond Age MEANS Nanotech Age. To have one follow the other would be like having the ferrum metalworking age following the iron age. It's repitition of the same concept.

Diamond Age wasn't just something they slapped on the end of CtP because it sounds cool, it actually means something.

 

[Decimatus]

MY POINT is that the Diamond Age from CtP, is a direct reference to a book, and the concept only exists inside that book. Diamond Age MEANS Nanotech Age. To have one follow the other would be like having the ferrum metalworking age following the iron age. It's repitition of the same concept.

Diamond Age wasn't just something they slapped on the end of CtP because it sounds cool, it actually means something.

It means something in this mod too. It is an homage to CtP. It doesn't go any further than that.

It would be pointless to come up with some different future era name since any attempt to do so would fall as flat as the diamond age concept has.

 

[climberjames]

I could add another ship, though I don't really want to add one that can cross oceans before the renaissance era, which is what you are asking for I think.

originally, thats what i was thinking, but no, that would unbalance things a little too much - the rena. period is better for ocean going vessels.

rethought the idea, and am thinking more of an upgrade prelude to the caravel, so a higher bombardment strength than trieme, but same speed - hulks & cogs were never very manourvable but did pack a high punch due to the raised fore & aft castle. something to provide assistance to late medieval troops making land assualts...

otherwise, the rest of the game is flying now - takes 1 or 2 turns to complete most ANY buildings (am in early industrial now), units take longer to build. The yield output of cities is ridiculously high - but then city pops are very high as well, so huge number of specialists.

have noticed same thing with the AI spawning TP's everywhere - irrespective if they are at the same tech level or not

unit wise - they are mass producing ships and units - never noticed that before with other CIV versions. Also, their tactical use of 3UP with range fire support is impressive - they can sneak attack a city and capture by turn 2 of the assault! i like that

 

[Verenti]

It means something in this mod too. It is an homage to CtP. It doesn't go any further than that.

It would be pointless to come up with some different future era name since any attempt to do so would fall as flat as the diamond age concept has.

Except that Graphene, the material you mentioned IS A DIAMONDOID.

Besides, what are you doing here if you aren't willing to make guesses to what the future could hold? If you're just taking the buildings and such behind CtP without what they represent, then you just have empty symbols. A homage that pays homage to a word, is nothing.

 

[Decimatus]

originally, thats what i was thinking, but no, that would unbalance things a little too much - the rena. period is better for ocean going vessels.

rethought the idea, and am thinking more of an upgrade prelude to the caravel, so a higher bombardment strength than trieme, but same speed - hulks & cogs were never very manourvable but did pack a high punch due to the raised fore & aft castle. something to provide assistance to late medieval troops making land assualts...

otherwise, the rest of the game is flying now - takes 1 or 2 turns to complete most ANY buildings (am in early industrial now), units take longer to build. The yield output of cities is ridiculously high - but then city pops are very high as well, so huge number of specialists.

have noticed same thing with the AI spawning TP's everywhere - irrespective if they are at the same tech level or not

unit wise - they are mass producing ships and units - never noticed that before with other CIV versions. Also, their tactical use of 3UP with range fire support is impressive - they can sneak attack a city and capture by turn 2 of the assault! i like that

It would be cool to have some greek fire ships as well, though not necessarily Greek Unique. When I get the optional tech pages working I may add some of these ships there. So you go from trireme to caravel on the main tree, but if you want that extra fire support you could divert for a tech or two and get some ship upgrades.

Are you playing V8? How high are your cities getting and by what date? I took about 40% food kept out of the later versions of V8, so I am curious to see what effect this has on population sizes.

I have also seen them pull some nice formations off as they march on my cities, though the way I place my frontier cities makes it extra hard for the AI to break into them.

Except that Graphene, the material you mentioned IS A DIAMONDOID.

Sure, in the loosest sense of the term.

Besides, what are you doing here if you aren't willing to make guesses to what the future could hold? If you're just taking the buildings and such behind CtP without what they represent, then you just have empty symbols. A homage that pays homage to a word, is nothing.

If you have actually looked at my digital and nanotech eras, you wouldn't be saying this.

If you want my honest opinion for what the "diamond age" will really be like 200-1000 years from now, it will either be the Matrix Age, or the Stellar Empire Age. Neither of which are going to be the names of the era in this mod.

The Diamond Era is a suitable name for an age that both goes beyond anything Civ can currently handle, and for an age of unknown wonders that we can only guess at.

I honestly don't care what book the makers of CtP read to come up with their last era, nor do I care that diamondoids and graphene are both made of Carbon.

The Diamond Era is suitably futuristic and mysterious sounding while paying homage to CtP. Unless someone gives me a name that jumps out as being better, that is how it will remain.

 

[climberjames]

It would be cool to have some greek fire ships as well, though not necessarily Greek Unique. When I get the optional tech pages working I may add some of these ships there. So you go from trireme to caravel on the main tree, but if you want that extra fire support you could divert for a tech or two and get some ship upgrades.

sounds good!

Are you playing V8? How high are your cities getting and by what date? I took about 40% food kept out of the later versions of V8, so I am curious to see what effect this has on population sizes.

I have also seen them pull some nice formations off as they march on my cities, though the way I place my frontier cities makes it extra hard for the AI to break into them.

yep, playing v8. Its turn 270, with 230 to go and largest cities are 46 to 31. AI cities are in mid 20's with the largest at 29. As mentioned before - they have spawned only TP and no farms...makes a Huge difference.

 

[Decimatus]

They only build TP's or that is what you did?

What era are you in btw? Industrial yet? That is generally when the population explosion happens, but I neutered Hospital and Medical Lab, so hopefully things are a bit different this time.

 

[climberjames]

Just starting the modern era now. the AI is building the TPs. But have noted that if i auto workers, then they mainly build TPs. Have to go after and manually control them. This is ok in beginning, but by this stage there are too many tiles\units to give quick controls and instructions to.

Have noticed that knights & cav dont expire when their replacement tech comes in. Can still build knights, then upgrade them to cav and then to tanks, bypassing the auto plant. high cost to upgrade - i like that increased cost! - but by now i'm raking in cash so its not a problem.

its the only old unit that has not been replaced. (so far)

lastly, when checking out the civ o' pedia, there are many unit entries that are 100% blank -tank, panzer, zero, fighter, etc.

cheers,


EDIT: ahhh...just got milit. science now and the knight build exploit has ended. can still build the cav unit and upgrade though

 

[Decimatus]

Just starting the modern era now. the AI is building the TPs. But have noted that if i auto workers, then they mainly build TPs. Have to go after and manually control them. This is ok in beginning, but by this stage there are too many tiles\units to give quick controls and instructions to.

Yeah it is a pain. Once you get civil engineers it should make life easier though. And I have increased the engineer's build rate even more for V9, so it should be even less of an issue then.

lastly, when checking out the civ o' pedia, there are many unit entries that are 100% blank -tank, panzer, zero, fighter, etc.

Strange, I haven't touched their text entries... Do you have another mod running?

Have noticed that knights & cav dont expire when their replacement tech comes in. Can still build knights, then upgrade them to cav and then to tanks, bypassing the auto plant. high cost to upgrade - i like that increased cost! - but by now i'm raking in cash so its not a problem.

its the only old unit that has not been replaced. (so far)

EDIT: ahhh...just got milit. science now and the knight build exploit has ended. can still build the cav unit and upgrade though

Fixed Knight. It will obsolete at Mil Tradition.

Cavalry will go obsolete at Advanced Flight in your version, but next version it will obsolete at Combustion.

Cav to tanks, lancers to gunships is how it upgrades, so you will find an exploit with cav to tanks prior to V9.

Thanks for the feedback.

 

[climberjames]

Strange, I haven't touched their text entries... Do you have another mod running?

Yep - but it only does the unit per tile increase, fire support & barb xp. nada else.

when checking out the civopedia, the future techs texts are there. its just the industrial\partial modern era texts for units that are not.

possibly my config, but will check on a different machine in a few days to confirm

 

[chrome-rome]

Playing v8 and I have a few things to comment on, some good, some bad. This is played on emperor, huge, 8 civs and 16 CS (for room to expand and move).

The good:

1) The current leader - Germany - has cities that are bigger than mine. My capital is at 24 pop. Berlin is at 29! My other cities are hovering around mid-high teens. Germany is averaging around 17 for the older cities and 6 for the newer ones. Granted it's only turn 100 (350 bc) but it's still a promising sight.

2) Germany has more cities than I do. I don't know if the second round of expansion has kicked in yet because this is my first game with the new patch, but right now they control more territory than any two civs combined.

3) Money seems to be reasonable. I was only barely possitive before I researched currency for the market and the bonus to trading post. It also seems the ai is haddling this well; of the four that I have met, only one is in the red (-71), while the wealthiest is cruising at +120.

4) Technologically the ai is keeping pace (Germany is already in the renaissance era at 350 bc, while I just broke into medieval).

The bad:

1) I'm not winning

Ok jokes aside this is a great improvement to C2PP balance. If you had not already started the sweeping yield changes and associated cost hike of v9, I would have just recommended that you just fine tune a few things in this version and then call it a day until the multilayered techs/policies are finished. However, since you have started, if you keep things in the same general ratio as they are currently, I think the balance will be maintained.

 

[Coldain]

Hi couple things i noticed , i am playing v8 the one from modhub that was put on dec 22. Machine gunners not getting the logistics promo, also i am playing as Andor from a diff mod one of there UU is a longbowman comporable to elizabeths longbow's, not sure if it is because of that mod but the longbowman upgrade to rifleman instead of machine gunners . which really sucked my archers had mega xp and promos was sad to delete them all since i didnt need them as rifleman and were getting outdated .
Very happy with the rebalancing of gold and production costs. Keep up the excellent work.

 

[Decimatus]

Playing v8 and I have a few things to comment on, some good, some bad. This is played on emperor, huge, 8 civs and 16 CS (for room to expand and move).

The good:

1) The current leader - Germany - has cities that are bigger than mine. My capital is at 24 pop. Berlin is at 29! My other cities are hovering around mid-high teens. Germany is averaging around 17 for the older cities and 6 for the newer ones. Granted it's only turn 100 (350 bc) but it's still a promising sight.

2) Germany has more cities than I do. I don't know if the second round of expansion has kicked in yet because this is my first game with the new patch, but right now they control more territory than any two civs combined.

3) Money seems to be reasonable. I was only barely possitive before I researched currency for the market and the bonus to trading post. It also seems the ai is haddling this well; of the four that I have met, only one is in the red (-71), while the wealthiest is cruising at +120.

4) Technologically the ai is keeping pace (Germany is already in the renaissance era at 350 bc, while I just broke into medieval).

The bad:

1) I'm not winning

Ok jokes aside this is a great improvement to C2PP balance. If you had not already started the sweeping yield changes and associated cost hike of v9, I would have just recommended that you just fine tune a few things in this version and then call it a day until the multilayered techs/policies are finished. However, since you have started, if you keep things in the same general ratio as they are currently, I think the balance will be maintained.

Sounds good.

Generally, all the ratios are the same. Places where you will find differences is where there used to be % increases such as the market, windmill, factory, etc, are now per pop bonuses, or in some cases large flat bonuses.

This will most likely be felt the most in the food% and gold% buildings, though I have tried to give them substantial enough bonuses to keep pace.

I am sure balanced will be largely affected by these changes, but I don't think it will affect the AI's ability to keep up with the player which is important.

Actually, another thing that will largely affect balance is the fact that you can plant boats on all sea tiles now. As long as the AI can do this it should work out well though. I know that when I grabbed my boat to set it down there was a suggested spot out in the empty sea where it wanted me to set it down. So now it is up to the AI to build the boats(and not too many of them).

As time goes on, I will tweak more and more as usual, and new systems will come in that will complete wreck the balance again anyway.

Hi couple things i noticed , i am playing v8 the one from modhub that was put on dec 22. Machine gunners not getting the logistics promo, also i am playing as Andor from a diff mod one of there UU is a longbowman comporable to elizabeths longbow's, not sure if it is because of that mod but the longbowman upgrade to rifleman instead of machine gunners . which really sucked my archers had mega xp and promos was sad to delete them all since i didnt need them as rifleman and were getting outdated .
Very happy with the rebalancing of gold and production costs. Keep up the excellent work.

Forgot to fix the text on the gunner, but fixed now. I had removed the free logistics promotion because it was too powerful through the ages as you upgraded. You could basically ignore the logistics promotion and get it for free when you upgraded your crossbows into gunners.

Yeah any UU crossbow that is not in Vanilla(or added by this mod) will upgrade to whatever that modder tells it to. In your case it sounds like he kept it simple, upgrading to rifles as the rest of the vanilla crossbows do.

Glad you enjoy it.

 

[SHaW1986]

so i started a game with this and i can build a giant death robot (not to mention lots of other futuristic things, wormhole detector, mars mission, etc.?)

 

[Decimatus]

so i started a game with this and i can build a giant death robot (not to mention lots of other futuristic things, wormhole detector, mars mission, etc.?)

You mean from the first turn, ancient era?

If you can build them right away, you probably have another mod running that has a conflict with my mod, thereby breaking the tech tree.

Or are you asking if you can eventually build those things?

If so then yes, you can build tons of cool futuristic stuff at the end of the tech tree. Though, the mod is unfinished and is missing a lot of art, so most of it is conceptual at this time.

 

[chrome-rome]

For the boat placing on any water tile, will that allow the construction of a seaport without a water resource?

 

[Decimatus]

For the boat placing on any water tile, will that allow the construction of a seaport without a water resource?

No, but the restriction is now removed. I somewhat reduced it's effectiveness in light of the new work boat system, so it should be fine.

In the future I will add some buildings that require those resources such as fish market and whatnot, which will increase the resource yields on them.

 

[Decimatus]

I am considering going a little further with the optional tech pages than I had planned.

Originally, I was just going to have non-essential, bonus-like tech in the extra pages.

However, after further thought, I am leaning towards diversifying the entire tech tree into a dozen or so pages. For those of you who have played CtP, this would be very similar to the CtP tech map minus having it all on one page.

Advantages:

- Very similar to CtP's tech tree/map.
- Much more room to pull off realistic and/or interesting tech paths, due to less tech and pipe clutter.
- Prereqs can cross pages without leaving pipe clutter.
- Less problems with broken tech pipes that have resulted in less than optimal tech placement.
- More room to place certain techs ahead or behind other techs. Currently limited to 10 techs per column, but this limitation would be all but removed.
- More room for future tech expansion.
- Easier to modify techs, placement, and prereq's without messing up half the tech tree.
- Room for optional techs to dead-end near to the tech they originate from.
- Each page would be filled with logically similar technologies. Engineering page for engineering related technologies, Religion page, Government page, Warfare pages, etc.

Disadvantages:

- Many cases you would have to read the tech help popup to find prereq info coming from other pages. At least until you learn the tree after playing a few times
- A dozen+ pages of tech tree(though each less cluttered than the current tree), could be annoying for some.
- Perhaps more disadvantages that I can't think of right now...



Let me know what you guys think. Especially any disadvantages that I haven't thought of.

 

[chrome-rome]

I have a disadvantage: It would take too long to get it ready. I want to play now

For those who don't want the multi-page tech system, perhaps you can do a CCMAT type thing, allowing players to disable it whenever. I personally am VERY much looking forward to it. I feel like it would lead to more specification, instead of the standard "What seems interesting right now" or the more problematic "How can I beeline to x tech?" I say go for it.

 

[SHaW1986]

You mean from the first turn, ancient era?

If you can build them right away, you probably have another mod running that has a conflict with my mod, thereby breaking the tech tree.

Or are you asking if you can eventually build those things?

If so then yes, you can build tons of cool futuristic stuff at the end of the tech tree. Though, the mod is unfinished and is missing a lot of art, so most of it is conceptual at this time.

yeah its at the first turn of the game. its probably because of the other mods.