Wow, you are making great progress Proc!!
I can't figure out why so many people are saying that they love the 1UPT rule. It bugs the hell out of me to have to move a carpet of units across the map, waiting for one to get out of the way of the others all of the time. I'd rather be focusing on other strategy instead of how to route my armies around each other. I get the whole thing where you have to figure out which hilltops to place your artillery units, etc, but you can do that while sharing spaces with infantry, tanks, etc. But anyway, that's just my opinion.
Now that I know how to make the change to turn on multiple units per hex, I'll play your mod a few times with it and let you know how it goes. It's going to definitely be interesting when you get to the Industrial+ ages and that treasury starts building up. No more limits on the number of ground units you can buy per turn in a city. I'll have to see how that works out.
I prefer 1UpT over stacks of doom, but I prefer CtP's system over them both. Stacks of 9, with the back 4 ranged units providing fire support. Each side fires, killing or wounding units depending on firepower, and then the units fill in the spaces, and they fire again, and again, until one side dies or retreats. Eventually artillery will be on the front row and they melt like wax.
It is about as simple as it needs to be while showing a combined military approach. You can even put aircraft in your stack for an attack. The stacks of 9 allow for a certain amount of battlefield congestion without getting ridiculous. 9UpT also serves very well in showing a empire's approach to warfare. Lots of units, coming from lots of different places, forming together to fight wars.
What ends up happening in CtP is a train of units flowing from your cities, merging into stacks as they make their way to the front line. As the stacks arrive, you position them to your advantage, taking into account ranged firepower, flanking fast units, and front line meat shields.
You also have to build airfields to house your aircraft on the front, and each can only hold a stack of 9 aircraft, so you may need several airfields to support a war effort.
I always viewed CtP as the war gamer's Civ, with Sid Meier's being a city state sim. CtP is empire, and Civ is some test of time business. It's all one genre, but the grand warfare found in CtP could keep me going for years. Sid Meier's games usually have me getting real bored about 4 months after playing them. Of course this time is different, since it is so easy to change.
Anyway, to get CtP's 9UpT into Civ 5 is going to take quite a bit more than moving the tile limit to 9. A system would have to be created that implements a stack fighting concept similar to CtP's. It doesn't even have to graphically represent the 9UpT combat as it did in CtP, though I think people would often feel cheated if their stack died at an unexpected time.
I doubt that we ever see this system in Civ 5. Someone with programming knowledge would have to spend the time and effort to make it happen once the DLL is opened. So, unless someone just randomly makes a giant stacked combat mod, or someone volunteers for the job, it probably won't be happening. I wish that weren't the case.
I want to share an idea for Great Artist that I have seen somewhere else: make great artist produce golden ages that are 50% longer than ohter GP Golden Ages. It was a cool idea in the mod that used it (can't remember the name), and I think it would give the artist more worth than the culture bomb.
The problem is that GP golden ages eventually get to the minimum 3 turns for a golden age by GP, so the artist would suffer the same fate eventually. I would prefer some more options like GP's adding buildings to cities. I don't know why that wasn't put into the game.
You don't like the Culture Bomb?
I have it set to a 2 tile radius, which is enough to make a serious change in a border.
BTW, you're updating V9 so much I can barely get through classical before a new one is released. I love the extra productivity
It comes in bursts.
I work 12 hour shifts, 3 on 3 off. So when I have time off and can get around my son, and have coffee laying around, then I can do some solid work.
In particular I think 1UPT represents historical accuracy. The Persians would have won Thermopylae with a stack of doom, and the allies could have won Market Garden. It makes sense that giant armies must march in columns in a specific order. Even if there is obviously enough space on the tile, military forces stick to roads, which are limited in size, and traffic jams of divisions was a problem from Alexander the Great to the Iraq War. Once the number of units is kept under control with maintenance, and AI tactics improve, the feel of battles will be much more realistic with no other changes required.
Having limits represents historical accuracy, but I think 1UpT is too 1 dimensional. Having a higher stack limit that functions together to a certain extent would be better placed. Just a matter of creating a system that makes the units function together.
I remember I had this one weeks long CtP games with this guy. We had this gentleman's agreement not to battle until the end game. We both started on our own continents and filled them to the brim with cities. I think I had 80-100 cities. Eventually the time came for war, as announced by all the construction going on in the gulf between our continents. The undersea tunnels were coming. I was not totally prepared, but my production was probably 30-40% higher than his, and I had built quite a lot of leviathans behind well shielded cities. When he came, it was with perhaps a dozen or so stacks(100+ units) of War Walkers and Fusion Tanks. My first ~20 cities didn't even stand a chance, though they bought me critical time needed to switch from buildings to tanks. He took a large chunk of my continent, but I lucked out. My continent bottlenecked to a 1 tile isthmus where I had placed a city, with some valuable mountain ranges behind it. I held him off at that isthmus despite him bringing in 2 stacks of Plasma Destroyers and throwing everything he had down the little choke point. With my huge production, I pushed him back, retook my cities, and when I was crossing the channel he made to take his cities, he conceded the game.
It was a great game, and a great example of how combat can work when a good combat system is in place. If I can make it or something reasonably like it happen, I will. Otherwise, 1UpT is the next best thing.
In CtP this was called the Leviathan. Had about twice the strength of any other unit in the game, and lumbered along at 1 tile per turn. You put these in your cities, and god help anyone who had to face a stack of 8-9.
Not sure when I will add it in. Probably once I begin working on filling gaps in the military tree.
I am going to paste the rest in my wordpad for future reference, thanks.
For the governments, I know you said that you can only be in one at a time, but can you make it so that you can be in one, but at the same time improve another. For example, I just completed the monarchy tree. I'm in the medieval era and want to start working on republic for peace time bonuses. However, right now I'm in a war, so I don't want to lose the benefits that monarchy gives to units. I have one free policy from the oracle, but if I use it I'll have to switch out. Could you make adopting governments and buying policies be seperate actions?
I have no way of allowing access to the sub-policies without access to the government itself. It wouldn't make any sense anyway.
Once I can get more policy pages it will relieve this problem. There will be some government systems and ideologies that should help diversify your system while providing plenty of new bonuses.
At least assuming FiresForever finishes it. Wondering if he is starting to get burned out. Hopefully not.
Haven't seen Lemmy in awhile either. Wonder how many of them are taking a break until the DLL is released.
-Work boats are really inexpensive. I think you might have the vanilla cost for it (35 hammers in my game).
Yeah, though I am not sure how I want to handle it. Probably at least a raise to 300-500 hammers. But most likely it will remain at that cost, so eventually you will be able to afford boats everywhere. CtP was like this, though you had it happen 3 times for each improvement.
-Harbor doesn't add hammers to water tiles.
-Barbarian camps only give 25 gold (not sure if intentional).
Harbor text fixed. No longer adds hammers.
Barbarian camp gold, not sure. I have it set, but it isn't taking effect. It may not be the correct value in which case I can not set it in the global defines xml. Though, if not there, then I know not where.
-Tech pace is moving pretty fast. Techs in a new era take about 12 turns, while techs in current era are 4-6 turns, with the slightly older ones going in less than 2 turns. This is with me having only six cities, four between 7-15, two 15+.
-Ai is blitzing through the ages. Year 835 BC and at least 2 ai are in Renaissance!
-I have 28 techs, next has 24 (renaissance), then 22 (renaissance), and another with 22
The AI blitzing eras and being a few techs behind sounds like normal. Getting to renaissance by 800bc is a bit quick. Do you know which techs they might have beelined? Perhaps by certain wonders that might have been completed?
-In monarchy's Tribal Kingship, experience is more like 2.5, where it says 1.5. Not complaining mind you, but just not sure if it's working as intended (melee combat gives 12xp, ranged gives 6xp).
Yeah I was thinking of some other values when I set that. It will be 50%.
In other news, I am once again outpacing the ai in every category that matters, and second in the ones that don't. For a short while in v8 the ai was keeping pace with - and often ahead of - the human player, so somewhere from there to now something(s) has changed (or maybe I'm just playing better
I am guessing that due to some toned down growth, the AI has been handicapped. I am not sure what it is, but if you give the AI some extra growth, they suddenly become superman.
I think perhaps I might give them a 10% growth handicap and see how they handle it.
Keep updating faster then I can play the game ... great.
I still think stacking at end of turn especially at sea should be in game .. but agree should be at 2 or 3. Now if all units needed a resource to make then I'd probably say stay at 1.
I wonder how profound an effect a 2 unit limit would have on the game. The only reason I would do this would be to add a little flexibility to the game so that the AI isn't tripping over it's own feet every other step. And I think 2 would still be limited enough to matter.
I might try some tests in a week or two and see how it goes.
wow looks good, This is quite a project Good luck cant wait to see it all done and finnish should be great to play
Thanks. Though, you might be waiting a long time if you want to see it "finished" before trying it.
