PROD Shadow - Sirian's TDG "Alternate Timelines"

[Sirian]

Hotrod: about the FP and courthouses, the answer is no. Not a waste. They might become lower priority if not already finished, though. Depends on the corruption levels. If less than 15%, the courthouses can wait until after stuff like granary, temple, market, library, maybe aqueduct too. If you get to three shields of production waste, though, a courthouse should clean up at least one of those, which might be worth pursuing.

- Sirian

 

[hotrod0823]

Prod English 250 AD

250 AD (0): MM at Nottingham to grow in 2, market in 10. MM at Nineveh to grow in 4. Change Birmingham worker to a Temple. Diplo Check nobody has any gold to speak of, no new trades.

260 AD (1): Courthouse complete at Dover, start Granary. Settler heading toward gap near Konigsberg, Shanghai and Chengdu with a vet pike from Brighton. Mines at Brighton, irrigation at Norwich, Jungle clearing at Dover.

IBTW: France builds Great Wall. Chinese start Great Library.

270 AD (2): Settler continues. Pike moving to protect in the South. Irrigate the mine in Liverpool. Clearing forest at Newcastle. Will hurry Exeter temple next turn.

280 AD (3): Nineveh finishes spear starts granary. London builds pike starts another. Norwich builds granary starts Marketplace. Russia starts Great Library.
Hurry Exeter temple for 116 gold. Diplo Check: No one has gold still some map selling for minor gold. Trade babs gems and dyes for, ivory, 6 of his 6 gold and the WM.

290 AD (4): We love the Trainer in London!! . Reading worker, start granary. Exeter Temple Complete start Courthouse. Mining at Reading, moving a few workers back toward york for future clearing.

300 AD (5): Canterbury builds harbor starts market. Found Glouster, start temple. Cut research to 30 %, 1 turn +44 gold.

ROP renewal from Russia for 22 gold and WM. Renegociate peace with Babs for 31 gold and WM.

310 AD (6): Learn invention, start Gunpowder in 10 at 40%, +17gpt , Coventry builds granary starts marketplace. London builds pike and starts another. Liverpool builds library and starts a marketplace. Change oxford from Aqueduct to granary.

320 AD (7): Marketplace at Nottingham complete, MM to run max shields, already at size 12, will have FP in 10 turns. MM at Hastings to take mined grass to grow in 7. Leeds at zero grow until granary is complete.

330 AD (8): London builds pike starts Cathedral. York builds market starts longbowman.

340 AD (9): Disease at liverpool, this is the second one this set of turns . Lost a galley to sea as well, didn't count my moves correctly. Hurry temple at Gloucester for 224 gold, maybe, may be too far away but once the FP gets online and it gets connected could be okay. Wanted a quick culture presence being soo close to China.

Trade Joan, Republic for wines and her gold 9. Reduce lux to 0%, and research is up to 60%, get guns in 5 with +6 gpt.

IBTWN: The russians are coming, 3 swords and 2 archers approach from the West.

350 AD (10); Oxford builds granary starts aqueduct. Some worker movement, to get Nineveh connected and Glouchester connected.


Nothing on the diplo front every one still lacks engineering/invention.

Here is the save:
Hotrod Shadow 350AD

 

[Zot]

0)250AD - Did not change anything.

Between Turns: A barb galley attacks our galley without hurting it at all. Dover finishes courthouse and starts a granary. I adjust the tiles so that we are working the good tiles.

1)260AD - The settler grabs a warrior and a pike on his way thru Brighton.

Between Turns: Another barb galley attacks our galley without hurting it at all. Paris has completed The Great Wall. The Chinese have cascaded to The Great Library.

2)270AD - We are now connected to the Russian city of Yakutsk, but Cathy needs more roads in her country to make it possible for us to trade. I see the Newcastle is at zero growth. Damn I should have looked around better when I started my turn. I don't change the tiles, because the city won't grow until the aquaduct is finished anyway. Since there is a pike on the way (currently in Liverpool) I change Nineveh from a spear to a granary. I notice that a Babylonian worker has done the paving for us down by Warwick, so we are now connected to Babylon. It looks like he is trying to connect Nippur to his network. I extort 30 gold and a worker out of Cathy to continue ROP and she gets our wold map. Joanie gives us her treasury of 6 gold to exchange world maps. I renegotiate Peace and ROP in order to get Hammi's ivory for only a gem. This allows us to fire Nottingham's entertainer.

Between Turns: the forest near Hasting has been chopped down. London's is celebrating 'We Love the Trainer Day'. London finishes a pike and starts Sun Tzu's. Norwich finishes granary and starts a library. The Russians are building The Great Library.

3)280AD - I am finally able to rush Exeter's temple. I really which Joanie and/or Cathy would hurry up and connect France to the trade network, because I want some of Joanie's wines.

Between Turns: Reading finishes a worker and starts a courthouse. Exeter finishes its rushed temple and starts a granary.

4)290AD - Misc Movement.

Between Turns: Canterbury finishes a harbor and starts a library. Birmingham finishes a worker and starts a courthouse.

5)300AD - Nottingham is finally back at 12. Unfortunately, I need to hire an entertainer until the marketplace is finished. I adjust to max shields. Gloucester is founded NW of Brighton. A temple is started there. Due to the road connecting Shanghai to Chengdu, we find that Gloucester is also connected. This also ends up connecting it to our trade network! I still have some workers paving their way to make a direct connection. Science adjusted so we still get Invention between turns and get more money. Wow, ask and you shall receive: It appears that France is now connected to the network! It must be thru a harbor, because Russia is not in the network. I renegotiate Peace and ROP to get Joanie to trade wines for dyes. This deal allows us to lower the luxury rate from 10% to zero! I still have to tweak Nottingham to have two entertainers until the marketplace is done in two turns. But this is the only city with a problem. The two entertainers do not affect the ETA on the marketplace, and since it cannot grow anyway the food is not a big deal.

Between Turns: We discover Invention and start gunpowder. I up our science to 50% and we still profit 15 gold. Coventry finishes a granary and starts a marketplace. I chose a marketplace over a courthouse, because we are only losing 1 out of 6 shields and 3 out of 19 gold. I also thought about a cathedral to push on Uruk, but decided to wait. Liverpool finishes library and starts a courthouse. I thought about a worker to help clear jungle, but we are at size 7, and I don't want to hit the size 7->6 penalty. There are workers nearby that can do the clearing.

6)310AD - MM. I rush the temple in Richmond, so that we can better defend against culture push from Frankfurt and Berlin. We also might be able to push and get control of some more floodplain. And who knows, it might help flip Frankurt.

Between Turns: Bizzi wants to talk...He wants to trade world maps. I agree. Nottingham finishes a marketplace and starts a library. I fire all the entertains and adjust the worked tiles for max shields. Richmond finishes its rushed temple and starts a granary. Not sure if a granary or a courthouse would be best here, because we need them both. The citizens of Sevastopol have overthrown their oppressivors and have pledged allegiances to us. I happily add them to our nation. I start on a worker to get the foreign nationals down to one.

7)320AD - MM.

Between Turns: Hastings finishes a marketplace and starts a library. Exeter's cultural influence expands, which is now not as neccessary as it seemed before.

8)330AD - MM. It appears that I can now bump the science rate up to 60%, without losing any gold. It however only allows us to collect 1 gold of profit per turn. It speeds up Gunpowder by one turn. It however will not increase our treasury to allow us to buy anything. I still bump it up, since I can always drop it for a quick cash influx.

Between Turns: York finshes a marketplace and starts a horseman that can eventually be upgraded to knight.

9)340AD - MM.

10)350AD - MM.

prod-shadow-zot-350ad.zip

 

[Sirian]

TBC? ?? ??? You out there? I'm about overdue to press on here. I would have already, except my Civ plate's a bit more full than usual at the moment.

- Sirian

 

[Black Cursor]

Sorry, it's been a very busy week. My turn follows...

250AD 0) No change. Broker World maps for small amounts of gold.

-- Gepid galley attacks our Galley, loses. Dover finishes Court, starts Temple. WLTK ends and borders expand.

260AD 1) Settler moves, with a Pike escort. 2 workers mine hills at Brighton, 2 irrigate plains at Norwich, 2 clear forest at Hastings, and all at Dover clear the local jungle. Pike is sent from Nottingham to Brighton.

-- Forest harvested with shields to Hastings. Another Gepid galley attacks our Galley, loses (no promotion). France completes The Great Wall and China cascades to The Great Library.

270AD 2) Our Settler and Pike move. 2 Clear forest at Newcaste, 2 irrigate grass at Hastings, 2 road hills at London. Nineveh MM for food. Exeter Temple hurried for 124g.

-- London finishes Pike, starts Horse. Nineveh finishes Spear, starts Library. Norwich finishes Granary, starts Market. Exeter finishes Temple, starts Court. Russians start The Great Library.

280AD 3) Our Settler and Pike continue. 2 Irrigate plains at Cambridge, 2 road plains at Norwich. London Pike to Nottingham.

-- Russia wishes to trade World Maps, we counter with World Maps plus 1g, they accept. And... And... AND... *Russia Declares War!* Russian Archer attacks Exeter Spear and wins -- Exeter captured, 0g lost. (Well, 124g considering the earlier Temple rush. They shall pay...). Reading finishes Worker, starts Court.

290AD 4) Settler arrives at suitable site. Norwich swaps to Horse. 2 irrigate grass at Leeds, 2 irrigate grass at Warwick. Dover pike to Warwick to bolster defenses. Newcastle Sword added to worker guard duty. A small expeditionary force (Horse, Pike, Sword) enter Russia. Coventry MM for shields.

-- Canterbury finishes Harbor, starts Horse. Coventry finishes Granary, starts Cat. Birmingham finishes Worker, starts Worker.

300AD 5) Gloucester founded, starts Temple. Our Horse attacks Yakutsk' Spear and wins (2hp remaining). Our Sword attacks their Archer and wins (no damage). Nottingham sends Pike to Newcastle. Road plains at Cambridge, irrigate plains at Birmingham, irrigate flood plains at Reading. 2 Irrigate grass at Oxford replacing the existing mine. Workers are added to the mining of Oxford's mountains/gems. 3 clear forest at London. With the added happiness during wartime, Nottingham fires its entertainer.

Mid-turn diplomacy: I choose to bring France into the fight at this point. In addition to the alliance, we get Wines, 9g and Maps in exchange for Gems and The Republic. We get Babylon Ivory and 23g for Gems and Dyes.

-- Russian Sword attacks our Sword and wins. Invention learned, Chivalry started. London finishes Horse, starts Horse. Liverpool Library starts Pike. The nationwide happiness is contagious: WLTK in three cities, and the palace expands!

310AD 6) Our victorious Horse rests. London sends Horse to Newcastle. We also send the itinerant Archer in the area to the front. 3 clear forest at York, 4 irrigate (finish) grass at Dover, 2 road grass at Warwick, 2 irrigate plains at Cambridge.

-- Forest harvested, shields to Newcastle. Nottingham finishes Market, starts Horse. Norwich finishes Horse, starts Barracks.

320AD 7) Our Horse continues to convalesce. 2 road hills at Brighton, 3 road grass at Dover and 1 clears jungle. Clear forest at Leeds. Norwich Horse sent to Newcastle and the front. Richmond Temple hurried (120g).

-- 2 Russian Swords attack our Pike guarding the Workers and both lose! Our Pike is now Elite with 4hp remaining. Hastings finishes Market, starts Horse. Canterbury finishes Horse, starts Horse. Richmond finishes Temple, starts Court.

330AD 8) Our Pike rests and the workers put on their best "no fear" expression and irrigate the plains at Newcastle. Canterbury sends Horse to the front. Newcastle moves its two Catapults in preparation for assault on Yakutsk. 2 road plains at Norwich, 2 clear jungle at Hastings, and we start connecting Nineveh to our road network via jungle road.

-- London finishes Horse, starts Horse. York finishes Market, starts Horse. Nottingham finishes Horse, starts Horse. Coventry finishes Cat, starts Cat.

340AD 9) Coventry sends its Catapult to Dover. Flood plains road at Rading, plains irrigate at Birmingham. 3 irrigate grass at London, 2 irrigate grass at Warwick, 3 clear jungle at Dover, and road plains at Cambridge. London sends Horse to Newcastle and Nottingham sends Horse to guard workers. Now to the job at hand...

Oue Horse attacks the single Yakutsk spear and wins easily. Yakutsk is captured, netting 4g. We retain Yakutsk which starts on Temple. The remaining Horses enter Yakutsk to quell the resistance.

-- The local Elite French Warrior attacks a Russian sword, and loses. Newcastle finishes Aqueduct, starts Horse. The resistance in Yakutsk ends.

350AD 10) Our (glorious?) catapults bombard the fleeing Russian swords, scoring one hit. 3 road mountains at Liverpool to connect Nineveh. 3 irrigate grass at York, road plains at Newcastle and Cambridge. Nothing is gained on end of turn trades.

Onward to Moscow!

Be seeing you...

---> TBC (Twice Bitten, Cathy?)

TBC's Shadow - 350 AD

 

[Sirian]

IT 250AD: London to Cathedral, York to Worker (out of good tiles), several corrupt cities to courthouse, Nottingham to Pikeman (currently has a reg spear), Canterbury to library (harbor can wait), Oxford to granary, Leeds to temple, and science to 20% to get enough cash to rush the Exeter temple next turn.

260AD: There was a pike en route to Nottingham? Ah. Change orders to horseman. York trains worker, starts market. Dover builds courthouse, starts granary, put to max shields/food. Science to 30%.

270AD: Exeter builds temple, starts walls. Nottingham trains horse, starts Forbidden Palace. Road to Babs hooked up, cancel our RoP for bargaining purposes but it doesn't help. Trade 2 for 1, luxury.

280AD: Pikeman from Dover arrives in Exeter. Science to 40%.

290AD: France has a harbor online. Trade them Monotheism @6th for Wines, map and 10g. Luxury to zero. Entertainer hired in Nottingham, but still on max shields. Gloucester founded north of Brighton.

300AD: Our galley defeats a barb galley. Map brokering nets a few gold. Babs have Feudalism now, but others all still broke. Coventry builds granary, starts worker. Canterbury builds library, starts market. Rushed the courthouse in Warwick for 196g.

310AD: Warwick builds courthouse, starts granary at 4spt. Liverpool builds library, starts barracks at max shields. Oxford put to break-even food to wait for its granary. Science to 30%.

320AD: Discover Invention, start Gunpowder, science to 50%, due in 8. Coventry trains worker, starts market. Roads at furs started, will be hooked up by the end of my turn. Russia has Monarchy.

330AD: Our spear from Liverpool arrives in Ninevah. Hastings builds market, starts courthouse.

340AD: Oops, passed up a chance to sell gems to Mao for 59g and 2gpt, and now he has bought Feudalism from Babs.

350AD: Exeter builds walls, starts courthouse. Rush courthouse at Richmond. York builds market, starts longbow. MM at London to max shields, shave a turn off cathedral, return to max food when that's done. Sell gems to Russia @miser price, 60g plus 4gpt. That should keep Cathy off our necks a bit. (The road to Russia is through the furs in the south, btw). Trade Republic @6th to France for Monarchy @6th.

All civs are lacking Engineering and Invention. We're still waiting on somebody to research Chivalry or Theology for us. Please note in my shadow results the emphasis on irrigations in the core, to grow our cities faster.


Sirian's Shadow - 350AD


- Sirian

 

[Sirian]

I'm overdue with the critiques and getting us to the next round, but I promise to take care of it this weekend.

- Sirian

 

[Sirian]

300AD: The harbor at Canterbury should probably have waited.

340AD: Losing the galley is particularly bad. But that's why a training game is useful: hopefully you will remember, and not make this goof in the future.

The Gloucester location is too exposed. The temple isn't going to relieve the cultural pressure there: you can't override their first ring tiles with your second ring. It doesn't happen. That's a squeezed location anyway, and on Deity I would never build there for fear either of handing the AI a free city, or else creating a money pit that returns far less than it requires. I founded up on the hills, and away from China, to reduce cultural pressure. Some with Germany, but that's the nature of the location.

Spending a huge wad of cash on a vital border town is one thing. Warwick or Brighton, for example. Even Exeter, as it's fighting for a fur and isn't all that close to an enemy capital. Gloucester's a real gamble, though. It will work out fine on regent, but that move would get you into troubles on Emperor.


Your worker activity looked good. I especially liked the attentions at London. Project coordination seemed in order.


Overall Grade: B

count: Two. (City Management, Imports)
count: One. (Lost the galley)


- Sirian

 

[Sirian]

300AD - See my comments to Hotrod about Gloucester. You're doing a good job with managing Nottingham, but did you forget about that as an FP site? Or did you veto the idea?

On the same line as the remarks about Gloucester, a cathedral won't pressure Uruk any further. We have the max pressure there already, unless we found more cities closer to it. Each city has its own cultural influence, extending outward in rings. When cultural borders expand, a new ring has come under control. You CANNOT override control of a rival city in a lower ring. That is, your ring three cannot override their ring two. Your ring two cannot wrest control of their ring one. Cultural wars apply only to same-ring control, when a tile falls under ring one for both cities (the cities are two tiles apart) or under ring two for both cities (3 or 4 tiles apart, or some cases when 2 tiles apart). In all these cases, the city with the most total culture controls the contested tiles. Understanding this is key to managing border pressures, flips, and dotmaps in contested regions.

310AD: Again, the temple at Richmond won't help AT ALL with the pressure from Frankfurt. The only thing that would help reduce that risk is more units on garrison in the city. The temple can push back pressure from Berlin, but I believe I ended up rushing the courthouse there instead, and planning to send some extra units to resist the pressures.

As for courthouse question in Richmond, check the corruption. If corruption is over half, the courthouse is the top priority. Even in some cases between 35% and 50% waste, the courthouse should come first. Otherwise the city never gets off the ground.

Sevastopol! A lucky break!


The wonder in London isn't a bad idea, but clearing the forest there will not cause the 10 shields to be added to the wonder, they will be wasted. Sometimes that may be worth it, but it's always better to try to coordinate your worker actions with your project plans, and clear the forest sooner, or wait and do it later, than to waste the bonus. IF you can help it. And it won't work to swap to something that would take the bonus, as you would then not be able to switch back to a wonder with the forest bonus in the box.

Running London on high shields, low food, at only size 8, for a very extended period of time, is probably not the best plan. By the time the wonder is done, a high food config along with enough core workers around (we currently DON'T have enough!) to improve tiles more quickly could have you backending a much higher production rate after the population increase, and actually BEAT the timing of the low-pop high-shield configuration. (600 shields is a lot to accumulate!)

You can't run irrigation excessively, but those who undervalue it are misunderstanding the math of the growth curve.

Also, What Can Wait, Should Wait. Everything down there OTHER THAN connecting those furs at Exeter is lower priority. The furs help the whole civ, while a mine or irrigation helps only one city (and not much at that, most of it lost to corruption). Hotrod missed this one, too, and yet I mentioned it during critiques last round, as well.


Overall Grade: B+

count: Two. (Imports, City Management).
count: One. (Locking London into food stasis at below max supportable population)


- Sirian

 

[Sirian]

Well, that's quite a pickle. Does Cathy have a secret crush on you?

In trying to figure out why she sneak-attacked you but not the rest of us, it appears to be that you failed to reinforce Exeter quickly, and she calculated (correctly) that she could take it from you.

If there's a lesson to be learned here, it's don't be lax with border garrison!


Your Gloucester location is good because it splits the pressure on itself between two of rivals. The location some of the others chose had all the pressure from the Chinese, and no way out from under it. I still like the spot I chose better, though, as it can still gain control of most of the region, has no immediate pressure from the Chinese, can still pressure them hard, and also is on the hill for a defensive bonus at a risky border location.


300AD: Some of that happiness boost is war-time reaction. None of us with peaceful turns were having nationwide We Love the Trainer days.


"3 irrigate grass at York" - wasting a worker turn. With four worker turns needed, 2 will get the job done in two turns. Adding a third just busies the third worker to no end, UNLESS you bring a fourth worker along next turn, completing the irrigation and freeing the other three to move on to another task. This is a minor point, but if repeated continuously, over time it adds up to major delays. It doesn't take much attention to note "4 turns to irrigate" (You can always see the ETA by hoving over the worker buttons at the bottom) and then running an arithmetic moment in your head and assigning an appropriate number, not dedicating extras who won't speed the job. They can be doing something else.

For example, a mountain road taking 9 turns. If you send three workers in a stack to do it, it will take 3 turns. If you send four workers, after 2 turns they only have 8 worker-turns invested, so it will take another turn, but all four will spend that turn. The fourth worker is just standing around getting paid government wages to do pretty much nothing at all. Hey! Taxpayers have a problem with that! Or at least this taxpayer does! And it's not the workers' faults. It's on the boss who's in charge of assigning the work force.


You did a good job managing the war once you got into it. A little more care might prevent that from happening to you, but then again, sometimes it just happens, or sometimes you make a mistake and have to clean it up. Overall, you had a good turn. One more problem I saw, though: a regular horse being trained at Canterbury. That move is occasionally appropriate, but generally, when in an actual war, you want vet units if possible.


Overall Grade: B-

count: Three. (Recovered from Surprise Attack, Hired an Ally to help along the weak south front, Captured an enemy City).
count: One. (Weak border support got you entangled into a war)


- Sirian

 

[Zot]

Originally posted by Sirian
300AD - See my comments to Hotrod about Gloucester. You're doing a good job with managing Nottingham, but did you forget about that as an FP site? Or did you veto the idea?
- Sirian

I guess I did not even think of putting the FP so close to our capital. I looked back at previous critiques, and now I see that you plan on moving our capital if we have an opportunity. I need to do a better job of remembering the various instructions that are embeded in the previous turns and critiques. You arguments make sense, I just didn't think of even puting it that close.

Originally posted by Sirian

Sevastopol! A lucky break!
- Sirian

Sometimes its better to be lucking than good!

 

[hotrod0823]

350 AD - 450 AD

350 AD (0): Change liverpool from court to market, is a city with one wasted shield worth a courthouse? MM at Dover, MM at Norwich to give mine back to Nottingham, Nottingham now at 25 shield and still gets FP in 7 turns.?? Change York to pikeman, still need more reinforcements in the South and to the East, NE. Move reseach to 50%, Theo. in 5 with +2 gpt. Trade Babs ROP, dyes and gems for Ivory. Renegociate ROP with Cathy for 53 of her 72 gold. Moving vet pike from Dover to Exeter.

360 AD (1): London builds Cathedral and WLTTD celebrated. Start on Pike for more reinforcements. Newcastle builds aqueduct and starts the granary. Iron outside of London is exhausted . Irrigation at Brighton and London. Hurry courthouse in Warwick for 148 gold. Need to get workers to the liverpool iron ASAP. 2 by Hastings will be done with roads in 3 turns, Stop jungle clearing at Oxford, 18 turns away, and begin moving the worker toward Liverpool.

370 AD (2): York builds pike starts horseman. Warwick completes courthouse starts Granary. Norwich builds library starts market. Leed builds granary starts temple. Irrigation at York, roads at Exeter. Both Babs and china want Engineering for Iron. No Trades.

380 AD (3): London builds pike starts horseman. Roads to the new iron will be done with 1 worker in 9 turns. The 2 clearing jungle are done in 5 turns. Decide the iron is urgent but 9 turns is Okay for right now. The iron can wait for now, at least the 9 turns. Mines at richmond.

390 AD (4): Hasting builds court, starts library. Canterbury builds courts starts library. Roads to the furs are complete. Start mining the hills in Richmond and Exeter. Theology next turn with +73 Gold. Leave lux at 10% for WLTTDs. Irrigation and roads at Coventry.

400 AD (5): Theology learned start guns. Thought about education but went for knowledge of the saltpeter. We are still in the tech lead by quite a bit and universities aren't needed yet. Gunpowder in 7 with +1 gpt. York and London build horses, start 2 more. Workers clearning forest btwn London and York, workers clearing jungle at York. Cancel dyes and ROP with China, we have our own furs.

410 AD (6): Oxford builds aqueduct and start a granary. Renegociate ROP with china for his measly 1 gold. Trade Cathy dyes for 50 of her 51 gold and 3 gpt.

420 AD (7): China wants Theo. for Monachry . London builds horse starts another. FP completed in Nottingham, start Library. French start Sun Tzu's. Chinese start Sun. Now +14gpt with the new found FP.

430 AD (8): York builds horse and starts another. Brighton completes aqueduct and start granary. New addition at the palace, Russia starts Sun Tzu's. So do the Babs. China Start Hanging gardens.

440 AD (9): Hasting builds library starts cathedral. Newcastle finishes granary starts library. Germans get in on the Sun. Dover finishes lib, start granary. Not sure if a temple is needed yet. Germans start GL.

450 AD (10):Irrigate new grass btwn York and London. Guns next turn with +16gpt. Survey the sitiuation and decide to hurry a courthouse in Exeter for 136 gold.
Make the rounds: Cathy: New peace treaty for 25 gold and 3 gpt., she lacks, Engineering (invention) and Theology. Has Monarchy but don't want it. Took all her gold.
Joannie: New ROP for her 10 gold, see cathy for what she is lacking.
Bizzy: "New" Peace for his 28 gold, see above for lacking techs.
Hammi: No new trades he has no gold, lacks the same. Has iron for trade but will wait for our new source.
Mao: Nothing new.

Here is the save:

Hotrod Shadow 450 AD

Hotrod

 

[Black Cursor]

No war this round and better worker actions, I believe. Onward!

350AD 0) Dover sends Pike to Exeter. Rush Warwick Courthouse for 156g. MM & swap Liverpool to Barracks. MM & swap Richmond to Court. Swap Hastings to Library. MM Newcastle, Dover, Brighton and Birmingham.

Trades- Babylon-Get ROP, Maps, 2g for ROP. Russia-Get ROP, Maps, 52g for ROP. France (in revolt)-Get ROP, Maps, 1g for ROP. Germany-Get ROP, Maps, 7g for ROP.

-- Forest harvested, shields to London. London finishes Cathedral, MM & starts Horse. Warwick finishes Court, starts Library. Newcastle finishes Aqueduct, MM & starts Library. Liverpool expands.

360AD 1) Galley heads back.
Workers- Brighton-Irrigate plains. London-Irrigate grass. Norwich-Mine plains. Hastings-Road hills.

-- Forest harvested, shields to York and Exeter. WLTT in London! York finishes Horse, starts Horse. Norwich finishes Library, starts Market. Leeds finishes Granary, starts 'duct.

370AD 2) Nottingham Pike guards workers. York sends Horse to Exeter. MM Liverpool. Rush Richmond Courthouse for 256g.
Workers- Nottingham-Road plains. York-Irrigate grass. Birmingham-Road plains (complete c/o 3 workers). Exeter-Road grass/furs.

-- London finishes Horse, starts Horse. Canterbury finishes Court, starts Market. Liverpool finishes Barracks, starts Market. Richmond finishes Court, starts 'duct.

380AD 3) Brighton Pike guards workers. York sends Horse to Brighton. MM Exeter.
Workers- Newcastle-Mine plains. Brighton-Road plains. London-Road grass. Birmingham-Irrigate floods.

-- Hastings finishes Court, starts Pike. Oxford expands.

390AD 4) MM Birmingham, Oxfored, Norwich.
Workers- Cambridge-Irrigate plains. Norwich-Road plains. Dover-Irrigate grass (complete c/o 4 workers).

-- London finishes Horse, starts Pike. York finishes Horse, starts Horse.

400AD 5) Canterbury sends Pike to Dover, Nottingham sends Pike to Canterbury, Brighton sends Pike to Nottingham. Pike returns to Brighton completing worker guard-duty. Hastings sends Pike to Leeds. London sends Horse to Oxford. York sends Horse to Dover. Science reduced to 30% with research to finish in 1. MM & rush Nineveh Library for 144g.
Workers- Nottingham-Road forest. York-Clear jungle. Reading-Irrigate floods. Dover-Road grass (complete c/o 3 workers). Exeter-Mine grass.

Trades- Russia-Get 6gpt, 20g, Maps for Gems. France (now Monarchy)-Get Monarchy, Maps for The Republic, 17g. Germany-Get 1gpt, 32g, Maps for Literature.

-- Theology learned, start Gunpowder. Science increased to 40% with research to finish in 9. Nineveh finishes Library, starts Court. Hastings finishes Pike, starts Horse. Oxford finishes 'duct, starts Granary. Germans start The Great Library.

410AD 6) Dover sends Pike to Warwick, Canterbury sends Pike to Dover. MM Nottingham and Brighton. MM & swap Dover to Temple (almost missed this).
Workers- Newcastle-Road plains. Dover-Clear jungle. Hasting-Clear jungle. Reading-Irrigate floods. York-Clear jungle. Hastings-Mine hills. Nottingham-Mine (replace) grass.

-- China wishes to trade World Maps, we decline. London finishes Pike, starts Horse. Dover finishes Temple, MM & start Library. Brighton finishes 'duct, MM & start Granary. Forbidden Palace finished in Nottingham! Nottingham starts Sun Tzu's Art of War. French and Chinese also start Sun Tzu's.

420AD 7) London sends Pike to Canterbury, upgrades Warrior to Sword for 40g. Hastings upgrades Warrior for 40g. Leeds sends Warrior to Hastings (for upgrade). Brighton sends Warrior to Nottingham (also for upgrade). MM York. Swap Coventry to Cathedral.
Workers- Norwich-Mine plains. Nineveh-Road plains. Coventry-Irrigate grass. Dover-Clear jungle.

-- York finishes Horse, starts Horse. Hastings finishes Horse, starts Horse. English Palace expands (plant a tree... ) Russians and Babylonians also start Sun Tzu's and Chinese start Hanging Gardens.

430AD 8) York sends Horse to Warwick. London sends Sword to Exeter. Hastings sends Horse to Nineveh, and upgrades Warrior for 40g. Nottingham upgrades Warrior for 40g.
Workers- Exeter-Road plains. Liverpool-Mine grass. Hastings-Irrigate grass. Reading-Irrigate floods. Cambridge-Road plains.

-- WLTT ends in London. London finishes Horse, starts Horse.

440AD 9) Nottingham sends Sword to Warwick. Warwick sends our last Warrior to Nottingham for upgrade. Hastings sends Sword to York. London sends Horse to Norwich.
Workers- Newcastle-Mine plains. Nottingham-Mine grass.

-- Hastings finishes Horse, MM & start Horse. Norwich and Warwick expand. German Leipzig flips to China (possibly earlier, just noticed it now).

450AD 10) Hastings sends Horse to Reading. Rush Exeter Library for 124g.
Workers- Nottingham-Road forest. Norwich-Road plains. Hastings-Road grass. Reading roads floods. Nothing to gain now in trade.

Be seeing you...

---> TBC (Temples(yep), Barracks(ok), Cathedrals(sure)).


TBC's Shadow - 450AD

 

[hotrod0823]

Only 2 shadows and the offical report.

Just a quick post to move back to the front page .

Hotrod

PS. Others must be finishing epic 10 and 11.

 

[Rowain deWolf]

I played this turns right after the official ones and than went on holidays and so they gort lost for some times so here are in a very short mann er my shadowturns til 450AD:

350AD(0): no changes;

London fin Cathedral starts Leo; Newcastle starts Library after Aqueduct;

360AD: WLTTD in London

York continous Horse-prduction; NOrwich starts a Market after Lib; Leeds fin its Granary and starts Harbor;

370AD

Canterbury fin Courthouse and starts Market;

380AD:
Hastins fin Courthouse starts Lib;

390AD:
another Horse finished in York Horsemen-training continues

400AD: Frankfurt expanded so i rush the Library in Richmond and Reading;

Theology learned Education started; Oxford fin Aque starts Library; Reading and Richmond fin their Libs and start Courthouses;

410AD:
Nottingham fin FP starts Sistine;
French and China start Sun-Tzu;

420AD:Uruk expanded so i rush the Lib in Dover;

Dover fin Lib starts Temple;
Brighton starts Lib after finishing Aqueduct; the People expand our Palace

Russia and Bab join the 'we build Sun-Tzu club' China starts Hanging Gardens

430AD:
Hastings fin Courthouse and starts Cathedral; The Germans are also fans from Sun-Tzu;

440AD: And now the Germans start the Great Lib;

450AD: trading: Gems+Dyes+50gold to Babylon for Ivory

Rowain

Shadow-450AD

 

[Sirian]

IT 350AD: Changed Exeter to walls, Dover to granary, York to Cathedral, Oxford to Harbor, Canterbury to Market, and several 2nd or 3rd ring cities to courthouse. Drop Lux to zero, incrrease science to 50%. Would need an entertainer in Norwich, but the Babs have ivory for sale. Trade Republic to Joanie for Monarchy, her map and 1g. Trade Gems, Dyes, 2gpt and our map to the Hammer for Ivory.

360AD: London builds cathedral, starts horseman. Newcastle builds aqueduct, starts granary. Decided to rush the temple in Cambridge. Exeter swapped back to courthouse, as the forest is about to be chopped.

370AD: Cambridge starts courthouse. Hastings swapped to cathedral. Disease has struck Liverpool (and when it strikes, it hits for two consecutive turns, so it will hit again next turn).

380AD: Chengdu flips to us, starts temple. London trains horse, starts another. Oxford completes harbor, starts granary.

390AD: Frankfurt flips to us, starts temple. Six pop in Frankfurt is a bit too many foreign nationals for my taste. Starvation diet ordered for the moment. Liverpool completes Barracks, starts market. Upgrade vet spear in Liverpool to pike. Sold RoP to Cathy for 3gpt and 17g. Cancel Chinese lux deal (we have our own furs now) but renew the RoP for their 18g -- we have a ship moving through their waters, on the way to the far side of the continent to AWAIT DISCOVERY of Astronomy, to get a jump on contacting the rest of the world. There is a sea lane over there west of Russia. There's another to the northeast, so we'll want to train another galley by then, too. Now irrigating over some of London's mines, to increase food supplies. Mine the hills and mountains to compensate. Rushed the temple in Chengdu. That will eat our treasury, but that's what it is there for: to use when you really need it. Science to 30%.

400AD: Discover Theology, start Education. Science to 60%. Brighton builds courthouse, starts granary. Frankfurt starves, set to starve again. Chengdu starts courthouse. Richmond set to go into WLTKD so its shield waste will be lowered.

410AD: Norwich riots. (Oops. And I even noted earlier that it was on the bubble). Frankfurt starves again, now down to size 4. I allow Frankfurt to start growing. On higher difficulty, though, I'd starve them all the way down to size 1, or if playing honorably, peel off workers before allowing them to grow. Of course, on higher difficulty, they wouldn't be so sad on culture in the first place, and we probably wouldn't have gotten the flips.

420AD: FP completes in Nottingham, starts library. A goodly boost to our economy is the result. Ninevah, Warwick and Dover are now all being pressured by Uruk, something we need to address. I hurry the courthouse in Warwick, for starters.

430AD: Warwick starts library. Rush the library in Ninevah.

440AD: Hastings builds cathedral, starts courthouse.

450AD: Discover Education, start Astronomy. Swap London and York to University. Newcastle builds granary, starts barracks. Sold Dyes to Cathy for 60g and 3gpt. Rushed courthouse at Exeter.


Sirian's Shadow - 450AD


- Sirian

 

[Sirian]

We haven't shown a map in a while, so here's a view of England after my shadow:

 

[Sirian]

You had some bad breaks this round, starting with the iron loss. The iron wasn't "exhausted", though: it packed its bags and moved to another location in the world. By now, everyone's heard my rants on this topic, so I'll spare you.

I particularly liked your worker actions. You got some needed mines in the northwest. You got irrigations going where they would dramatically speed growth. You dealt well with the iron loss. I have only a few nits. You left the fur tile unimproved. That's the best tile in range of Exeter, you need to do something with it before heading out of there. Mining the new grass at Liverpool was not good because that city has no end of shield tiles, but will have to go max irrigation on every available tile to reach its population potential (and, ironically, it's strongest possible shield output).

You chopped a tree at London, which will be wasted next turn unless you change from horse to longbow, or to some other project.

If you compare to my shadow round, you'll see that most of my cities have higher population. I irrigated over some mines at London to speed growth there. I got more pop out of York, Warwick, and some others. Your pop is higher in Liverpool, but I got hit with disease there. Yours is also higher in Norwich, but I ran an entertainer there for most of my round.

The 10% lux tax was not worth it. You're a whole turn behind my shadow on tech, which as the game progresses is representing larger and larger chunks of commerce. The WLTKD celebrations did not bring in as much as the lux tax was costing. And note, I still have WLTKD in a lot of spots where it's helping: Hastings, Richmond, etc.


Overall Grade: B+

count: Two. (Workers, Diplomacy)
count: One. (Missed the trade to Joan, Republic for Monarchy)


- Sirian

 

[Sirian]

Renewing RoP essentially for free? The one with Russia brought in a good price, but the rest of those could wait until there was either a need or a better offer.

You spent a lot of time training horsemen this round. At York, it was a bit wasteful, lots of overlap shields. London was a good site for training them, though. If yours was the official round, you'd be ready to upgrade to knights -- takes 80g per, though, without Leo's workshop.

Upgrading the regular warriors to sword? We'll probably need them as warm bodies for flip resistance, etc etc, but they can serve that role just as well as warriors. If push came to shove and you needed them as troops, fine, but with all those horse around, the gold might have been better spent.

Your worker assignments were very solid. See Hotrod's critique for some worker nits. Your emphasis on 'ducts was too high for my taste. You have them being built in cities without granaries or temples in some cases.

Starting the wonder in Nottingham is definitely the place to be doing that. It can pull in a major wonder fairly quickly. Take four turns to grab a library first, though? Definitely YES, if the four turns won't significantly put your wonder completion at risk, since the benefits of a library over the next ~25 turns would be very significant at a maxed out FP city.

And speaking of which, your handling of the economy this round gets a failing grade. You had some bright spots with sound rushbuys, but you completely passed up the chance to buy Babylonian ivory AND after handing them a free RoP, too! As a result you had to run 10% lux ongoing and you are more than a couple whole turns behind my shadow on research, without having rushbought much if any more than I did.


Overall Grade: C-

count: Two. (Workers, Military Buildup).
count: Three. (Economy, Economy, Economy: not enough trade, too much spending, sluggish research).


- Sirian

 

[Sirian]

I still see two strong trends in your rounds that I consider to be bad habits: you overdo the jungle clears, and you underdo the granaries. Consistently. I can tell it's your game when I open it and look around.

There's always a time and place for jungle clearing, and those too sluggish at it (or who have too small a workforce) will suffer. But if you have cleared tiles -- plains, grass, hills -- lying around, and your city has enough food for the moment, work the easier tiles first. Your city will have more good tiles to use more quickly. An exception might be a resource tile out in the jungle, like the dyes at Dover and York. Clearing jungle reduces chance for disease, and that might be a reason to prioritize jungle tiles if you have only one or two left around a big city (like London). At York, there are so many left, disease is a lower priority. And ESPECIALLY at Reading, the jungle clearing really has to wait.

The granaries go hand in hand with irrigation. The idea being, a rapid rise to maximum population brings in MORE shields and commerce. It doesn't even take all that long to see the return. Compare an early granary on a start with no food bonuses, to someone cranking settlers with no granary. It's the same idea.

Everyone is overdoing the lux taxes. We NEEDED to run some back before we got all our cities connected to the trade network, but now the cost clearly outweighs the benefit. I'm two whole turns ahead of you on research, in my shadow. That's symptomatic mainly of my dropping lux to zero, but it's also a matter of my population growing faster, which would show itself more visibly if we didn't keep returning to the Official Turns to play, but went on from here.

Starting the Wonder in London will work out at this difficulty, but doing a middle ages wonder at your capital is hugely risky on Emperor. You've almost got to shut the cascade down first, and with a running cascade like we have at this point in this game, on higher difficulty you'd be facing a lot of adversity there. Any city besides the capital has the backup safety option of switching to palace placeholder while you scramble to acquire more wonder techs, so your investment doesn't get wiped out. As for the wonder in Nottingham, should a library be done first? See the other critiques for details on this.

The library rushes at Frankfurt are actually low priority. That city is way behind our cities in the area. Of greater concern is the cultural pressure in the south, where we have cities already losing the cultural war. You rushed the library at Dover, but that's the one spot that is guaranteed to have control of its 21 tiles the moment it expands the first time. It's the rest of the cities around Uruk that are in contention. When I first opened your game, before I finished reading your whole report, I saw your cash level and research progress and could not figure out where you had spent the money. It clearly didn't go to the needy cities on the southern front.

The last line of your report showed where at least one of the lost research turns went: you were very slow to buy the ivory. It was available at the start of the round.


Overall Grade: C-

count: None.
count: Four. (Sluggish economy, Weak trade, Weak rushbuys, missed the chance to pick up Monarchy for Republic from France).


- Sirian