PROD Shadow - Sirian's TDG "Alternate Timelines"

[Sirian]

1000BC: Good job draining Bab treasury. Also great work at Nottingham. If you keep that up all turn, you may get the gold star this round.

950BC: That's incense, btw.

900BC: The tile one SW of your Brighton location would swap overlap with our to-be city to the east, for more overlap with the Chinese city, and more access to food. You site is good, though, so I won't complain.

825BC: That world map trade could be iffy. Once any AI has a tech or a bit of map info, they are liable to trade them all around and all of them get them. The question then is whether or not you give up value by making such a trade, since you lose the chance to trade the same thing to every AI on the same turn. Even if you GIVE AWAY stuff to the poorest nations, you get diplomatic credit for doing that, and deny another civ the benefit of the trade. I won't say this was a bad deal, because it may not be, but you should at least pause to consider this sort of thing when the AI's offer you a deal on THEIR turn, when they have control and can swap the goods all around and cut you out of other deals. On the other hand, when the AI's offer a deal, it is occasionally a "good" deal and won't be available at that price through regular negotiations, but... with our scouts, and widely known explorations, I suspect you gave up a good bit here. It probably could have waited.

750BC: MPP's are a long way off. We should remain neutral until that time, and by then the game will be won on this difficulty level with this edge on civ size and productivity. The AI's are not our main opponents in this Training exercise. Our own decisions and thinking processes, and awareness of the variables involved in making effective decisions, are the main opponents. It's possible to "train" for any difficulty in terms of building, here on Regent. It is not really possible to train militarily for higher difficulty from down here. In fact, it would be counterproductive in many aspects, since militarily you have to make your plans much more based on the AI capability.

You neglected the irrigations at London, which are top worker priority. You did well with the rest of your work force, though, on the whole. I snuck the granary in before the York settler, which is an opportunity you missed. Your Nottingham micromanaging slacked off at some point, as the food box was short one food on your final turn, and that shouldn't have happened. At least you were paying some attention there, though.

One more point. You passed up the chance to whip partial progress on the temple down at Warwick. You can only whip partial progress at certain points in time, when you have a target to whip toward. Check my timing in my report for details. The once-mighty forced-labor whip has been nerfed almost to uselessness, but almost is not the same as entirely. The whip memory fades quickly enough, especially when used this early to speed the first cultural improvement. Getting that temple online a good bit faster may be urgent to maintaining cultural control in that area. Will probably also be necessary to pay to rushbuy library once the government swap is made. I will be surprised if any of you players make this move, so I'm not singling you out. ChrTh had a rough turn and I didn't want to pile this one on him, too, when I knew I could tack it on to a different critique.


Overall Grade: B

count: Three. (Dover Norwich locations, Inherited Turn)
count: None.


- Sirian

 

[hotrod0823]

Sirian: Did you post your shadow? I like to read it for reference.

Hotrod

 

[ChrTh]

My pathethic defense:

When I station Warriors, etc., I usually do them in the location I plan on putting a city. Placeholders basically. However, they had been placed in their respective locations for their fog-busting ability, not as placeholders. I miscommunicated with myself their purpose, the Warrior looked like it was close to a good spot, and I screwed up

As for the forest clearing: Doh! It didn't occur to me that the forests were outside of usable squares, and I was stuck in the clear-then-road mode of thinking. Straight road-building would've been quicker (obviously).

It's like Golf. When you're on the driving range, you don't shoot as well because you're working your way through a bucket of balls. When you're actually on the course, however, you concentrate a lot more (since you only get one shot) so you usually do better. I need to start treating my Shadow turns as if they were official turns.

 

[Sirian]

I forgot to post my shadow results before critiquing? Oops. The report was here open the whole time, too.


IT 1000BC: Swapped York to granary. Woke spear at Canterbury to chase settler south. Swap Nottingham tiles to grow one turn sooner, change project to settler. Renegotiate peace with Babs for 20g.

975BC: French warrior does not attack at Newcastle, so that's one worry off our backs. Swap Warwick to Settler and whip, then swap back to temple, now with 30 shields left to go. Hastings trains worker, starts settler. Slave worker at London SW to last of the open plains. Warwick worker N to connect up.

950BC: Philosophy discovered, start Republic, science to 90%. Dover founded south of Berlin, starts temple.

925BC: Brighton founded west of Coventry, starts temple. Coventry completes temple, starts granary.

900BC: Scout in the SE sets up on new perch, overlooking the unclaimed river area. It may be possible to grab a city site here since the Babs seem uninterested in it. Would be a pressured site, and need a lot of attention, but we'll see.

850BC: York finishes granary, starts settler. Nottingham finishes settler, starts worker. Settler W W N toward incense site.

825BC: Chinese settler pair appears in NE. It looks like any player who does NOT swap Nottingham over to settler first thing is going to lose this city site. I'm barely going to get there first. Hastings worker pair S onto hills, then to proceed west to get connected to London across the hills. Wake the warrior on the hill near incense, move him W to help slow/block Chinese. French have met the Chinese now, so I missed out on the chance to get their 4g. (Heh). Russians have discovered mapmaking, and there are some techs in possession of other civs. I tried to configure a trade for mapmaking but found nothing worthwhile. I sold RoP to Babs for 31g.

800BC: German settler pair appears SW of Berlin. I saw this one coming, as I had spotted Berlin at size 1 last turn. Not much can be done now, they will get a site near that iron north of York. York's settler will be able to grab the good river spot with all the flood plains along the coast. Also, Russian settler pair appears at the furs, so we're going to be running out of places to settle here soon. I swap Nottingham off worker to granary.

775BC: Norwich founded in desert, SW of the incense, starts temple.

750BC: York completes settler, starts worker. London takes permanent possession of the shared tile. Settler NE N, spearman S to meet up. Germans have moved into position. Nottingham swapped to settler, can still grab lands south of Newcastle. Diplomacy time: everyone has mapmaking, so I trade Horseback Riding and Mathematics to France for Mapmaking, World Map and their 4g. That lands all the known map information, so that's where it stops. Renegotiate peace with Russia for their 16g and map (which adds no info, but you never know, so might as well).

Sirian's Shadow - 750BC


- Sirian

 

[Sirian]

975BC: No, that site's not on fresh water, neither the lake nor the river. It did discourage the German settler pair that descended into the region to grab the iron, though, so at this point that may be worthwhile.

925BC: Coventry: right, it's growing too slowly to make its own workers, combined with need to push culture. York (w/granary) and London can pop out a few soonish and send them en masse southward to assist Coventry. Good project coordination there.

850BC: Your incense location is a poor one for two reasons: first, it doesn't include the incense in immediate range. Will take a long time to get a temple done there, so that's a lot of use of incense going to be lost. Second, you're consuming one of the very few food tiles in the area, instead of redeeming a desert tile. Like the situation down at Liverpool, this city site is a circumstance where the land dictates few good options, as compared to your Brighton location, which IS a good location except for missing out on fresh water, and you can make a case for trading that for the iron in range. Up at the incense, your location on the grass gives up two valuable things and presses more overlap, getting almost nothing in return.

825BC: No use clearing that particular forest tile. I liked almost everything else you were doing with your workers. See my comments to ChrTh.

775BC: York granary! Irrigation continues at London! [dance]

750BC: Good round of trading.


Overall Grade: B+


count: Four. (Project Coordination, York Granary, Diplomacy, City sites)
count: One. (Incense city location).


- Sirian

 

[Sirian]

Welcome to the Training Game. Here comes the Prod.

975BC: "It's getting too big" is rarely a good reason for building a settler or worker. With rare exceptions, your city will have a variety of tiles on hand. Some will have more food but less shields, some more shields but less food. This is good, that's how you want it. In this case, there are plains and grass tiles with two food and one shield apiece and forest tiles with one food and two shields apiece. If your city gets too large and more growth would be wasted on entertainers, you can swap from high food to lower food or break even food, and increase the shield output.

Now that's not to say your settler choice here is bad. There can be other reasons for building a settler, such as "hurry to grab that iron before the Germans get to it". You did well here, but perhaps for the wrong reasons. Sometimes it's better to be lucky than good, but... it's rarely good to rely on being lucky. Keeping your core cities with improved tiles running high population is, contrary to your actions here with York (and extending to the second settler you're building there later in your turn), not to be avoided. There is the option to pay for luxuries, or to bring more luxury resources online. You have the incense connected by the end of your turn, which would allow York to grow to size 7 without happiness problems, yet your second settler would be dropping it back to size 3, with a bunch of good tiles sitting around doing nothing: all the shields and commerce that could be gained from them being LOST turn after turn after turn, because the city is too small! Being afraid of letting your cities grow is one point we'll work on, until you get more comfortable with it.

950BC: Currency as a next project can wait. Our civ is at a place where we soon need to change government, and the team has been moving in that direction for the last couple of rounds. Since we are in the tech lead, we'll be running high science probably from here on out, so markets would do us little good in the short term while a government swap would do a lot of good; and as yet we do not have three lux online to gain market benefits for happiness. Normally I don't like to dictate research projects, as there are pros and cons for each, but there are times in the game, under certain situations, where depending on what has already been done before, there really is only one right choice. This is such a case, with the Republic. (Rowain's going to get pointed back here, too, as I noticed on skimming his report that he too opted for Currency).

As for your trade... what's the hurry? Why pay 2nd civ price to then sit on the tech and watch the AI's trade it back and forth. There are three reasons to rush a tech trade and pay high civ prices: 1) Because waiting won't help (the civs who don't have it yet have no prayer of getting it any time soon). 2) Because you can turn around and broker the tech to waiting customers, recouping your costs. 3) Because you have immediate and urgent need for that tech. ... Just because philosophy has no immediate benefit does not render it worthless and to be thrown on the trade table as a gimme. I recommend you check out all the other shadow turns, including mine, to see what each of us paid for the same tech in trade by waiting for the price to drop. Pay attention to two things: the actual price paid, and the amount of retention for our civ of exclusive resources: tech and map info not possessed by any other civs. I come to the end of my turn and no civ except ours had Philosophy or Literature yet, none had our map info, and I didn't pay anybody a lick of gold. And the reason none of the other players made the early trade is that I've been beating a drum since we began: to prioritize. "What can wait, should wait." This trade could have waited. You did gain some gold in the map brokering, but I gained that same gold in other ways, and I avoided paying the higher tech trade cost.

925BC: Good job at Coventry.

900BC: Your Dover location has problems. One bonus grassland 3 NE of Newcastle is goes to waste, and another grass could have been borrowed from Newcastle, which has lots of good food tiles around once they are improved. The corner lost out of your immediate cultural circle does little good. The Chinese could be pressured without getting quite that close. One tile SE was the ideal spot, or E misses the horse but is better than your spot. It's one thing to plop down that close when you can rush a temple with a cashbuy, but at this point it gives up a few things for little in return.

You haven't mentioned it, but the workers at London you sent to hurry the road on that second dyes. Why? The tile would be cleared a few turns later, what's the rush on those dyes?? You burned eight worker turns there (six lost on the road, nine vs three/jungle vs grass road times, plus two to move the workers into the tile, total eight turns extra work spent to hurry that road. What did you get for it? The town's not even working that tile yet, and the dyes are collecting dust in a warehouse.) At least you skipped chopping that unused forest between London and Hastings, so that was good.

850BC: York, with its barracks, would do better for providing a spearman for Hastings. Not to mention, Hastings has been churning workers like mad for centuries now, and still has no temple. If it trains a spear, that will delay the temple even more. Also, this city is in the back lines, and that warrior is doing fine. The spearman replacement can wait a bit longer, so... it should wait. Spend the time getting more workers out, or another settler, or get started on the temple.

825BC: Your Brighton location is excellent, and great work. The Germans are going to grab the other good site up there, though, at the small lake. It would have taken settlers from both Nottingham and York first thing this turn to get both those and the incense, and not even I did that.

800BC: You were going for the furs? Is that why that settler down in the SW seems to have been wandering around? I saw that when I first opened your save file. The settler was four turns from where he was when the round started. So... what the deuce were you doing with him??? Having passed the spot everyone else chose, by the lack across from the third dyes, you should have kept going anyway, not turned back. London could make another settler to fill in that gap. Even if you couldn't get the furs, you could settle a forward location NW of Warwick. By turning around and going back... ack, that's a disaster! When you commit to a bold move, you have to follow through with it, even if the AI's do something to interfere, it's too late to turn back. I would have had high praise for you grabbing any lands over near the furs, if you had kept on going. If you were going to plug that gap in the jungle, you could have done that right away, like the rest of us.


You did a number of good things this turn: Brighton, the road from Hastings, the incense online, the gems almost online. You got further with the gems than anyone else -- one more reason not to be shrinking York back to the stone age when it can soon support size 8 population! The Coventry action was good. Some worker action good, some definitely not good. Overall, a decent turn.

I'm going to skip grading you this turn, since you're just arriving and getting settled. Keep two things in mind:

What can wait, should wait.

Specialization increases productivity. Coordinate your projects.


- Sirian

 

[Sirian]

950BC: Currency? That could wait. See my remarks to M.Sheep.

775BC: Bad trade. Philosophy was the only exclusive tech you had left. You could have kept it and traded other commodoties. You also missed opportunities to drain AI treasuries earlier in the round. At the end of your turn, several civs have tech parity. If you contrast this to the end of my turn, where I kept both Philo and Lit out of AI hands, you can see what I mean.

Just about everything else looked good.


Overall Grade: B

count: Three. (Settlements, Workers, Project Coordination).
count: Two. (Research, Diplomacy)


- Sirian

 

[Zot]

Originally posted by Sirian
One more point. You passed up the chance to whip partial progress on the temple down at Warwick. You can only whip partial progress at certain points in time, when you have a target to whip toward. Check my timing in my report for details. The once-mighty forced-labor whip has been nerfed almost to uselessness, but almost is not the same as entirely. The whip memory fades quickly enough, especially when used this early to speed the first cultural improvement. Getting that temple online a good bit faster may be urgent to maintaining cultural control in that area. Will probably also be necessary to pay to rushbuy library once the government swap is made. I will be surprised if any of you players make this move, so I'm not singling you out. ChrTh had a rough turn and I didn't want to pile this one on him, too, when I knew I could tack it on to a different critique.

- Sirian

I just never think of whipping as a good shoice. I understand the fact that the memory fades, but I just don't like being Zot the Cruel. I would rather be Zot the Nice (at least to my own people, the other civs get no mercy). Maybe its because I always want to be liked, or an inferiority complex, or some other psycho babble.

 

[ChrTh]

ChrTh's Shadow

Turn 0 -- 750 BC
Resolved to play a Bogey-Free round (I've been like Lefty too much lately: Birdie-Bogey-Birdie-Double Bogey etc)

Everything looks pretty good; I do change Hastings, Nottingam and Warwick to Settler (I hope to grab the Furs, but doubtful as Cathy has a Settler nearby). I change York to Spearman, to be followed by Settler.

Since city location screwed me last time, I plan the following:

Nottingham settler will build on plain 3 tiles SE of Shanghai (3 NW, 1 N from Brighton). The Spearman being built in York will accompany.
London settler will head to spot 3 NE, 1 E of York. If York settler completes on my turn, he'll head to desert spot 3 tiles NE of Frankfurt. Hastings settler, if complete on my turn, will head to coast spot 4 squares E of Frankfurt. Warwick settler to be determined after/if Cathy settles.

Turn 1 -- 730 BC
Worker finishes Road outside of Hastings. Goes to help workers near Oxford.

Turn 2 -- 710 BC
York produces Spearman, begins Settler.
Coventry completes Worker, begins Barracks (possible placeholder).
Warwick produces Settler, begins Worker.
Sevastopol was built by Russians in iffy location. Warwick settler can grab a fur if it settler on spot 5 tiles NW of Warwick. That way we can build another city directly N of the Iron.
Coventry worker goes to help nearby worker.
York spearman heads to Nottingham for escort purposes.

I do a Foreign affairs check: China has money (26). The ROP can't be renegotiated for 15 turns, so the only way I can get the money from them is by trading a Tech. That seems wrong to me (as then they'd be only 1 Tech behind us), so I don't do it.

Turn 3 -- 690 BC
Civil Disorder in Nottingham? Remarkably, this doesn't hurt as much as you'd think. I move the Spearman for the settler escort into town (to quell the disorder), and the Settler wouldn't be built until next turn; otherwise I'd have to have the Spearman trail behind the Settler, or make the Settler wait a turn (which was what I was planning). I know I'm rationalizing, but hey, it's a good rationalization.
Workers moved to get Gems on line.
I drop science to 90% to save 3gpt (from -8 to -5) without affecting completion time.

Turn 4 -- 670 BC
London completes Settler, begins Worker
Nottingham completes Settler, begins Worker
Settlers head to spot indicated above.

Turn 5 -- 650 BC
Canterbury completes Temple, begins Worker
Science dropped to 80% to save 4gpt (from -6 to -2) without affecting completion time.

Turn 6 -- 630 BC
London completes Worker, begins Barracks, to be followed by Settler.
York completes Settler, begins Spearman. Spearman already in York accompanies.
Have to raise Science back to 90% to speed up completion (Settler/Worker builds depleted Commerce)
Reading is built, Temple ordered.
Science can be dropped back to 80%.

Turn 7 -- 610 BC
The Russians declared War on Us! Lousy AI...
Newcastle captured by the Russians!
Nottingham completes Worker, begins Archer (temp).
York changes from Spearman to Swordsman.
china wants to break the bank for an Alliance against the Russians. I say forget it.
I switch Brighton to Warrior.
Republic next turn, but Anarchy during War?

Turn 8 -- 590 BC
We get the Republic. We order up Currency.
No we are happy with Despotism
Hastings completes Settler, begins Temple.
Brighton completes Warrior, begins Temple.
Birmingham is built, begins Worker.
Ok...nothing is imminent to be built. The Russians haven't done a damn thing since taking Newcastle...I revolt.

BTW, I find the following quote from a post of mine on Page 2 of this thread:
"I see the mistake in avoiding Cathy...although that's based on the fact that every time I've played against Russia...I've had war declared on me by Cathy. I'm not kidding."

Nice to know the #!%$?! is consistent.

Turn 9 -- 570 BC
Anarchy. No rioting (I checked last turn).
I find a scout guarding the land bridge...for no reason I can fathom...I move him.

Turn 10 -- 550 BC
Zzzz

Well, that sucked.

I started building a Barracks in Paris earlier. In retrospect, it's obvious that it's time to build more soldiers. For the heck of it, I play until we come out of Anarchy...takes a loooooong time. Too long; I forgot to save at 550 BC, so you're going to see my 530 BC save...whoops.

here's the save:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/prod-shadow-chrth-550bc.zip

EDIT: Good lord, my post was censored!

 

[hotrod0823]

750 BC (0): Survey the lands, change Coventry from a worker to Library.
Whip temple at Cantebury, maybe too late for the whip to be a good choice.
Change research to 90%, lose only 5 gold instead of 8 without adding turns.

730 BC (1): Nottingham finished spearman starts a granary. Cantebury finished whipped temple starts a spearman.
Change Hastings from spear to a temple. Hastings worker completes mine moves to Leeds.

710 BC (2): Road to Cantebury complete Mine the dies. Forest chopped at Warwick start mines.
MM Nottingham again to grow in 3 granary in 9. MM Hastings to grow in 1 temple in 18.

690 BC (3); York builds settler starts spearman. Settler heading to the NE by the Lake and dyes E of Frankfurt.
Oxford workers finish mine, decide to mine the bonus grassland before roading the gems, they can wait! For now.
Road to Brighton x2. Sending 2 Workers to connect Dover, Warwick and Coventry.

670 BC (4): Hammi wants TM for TM, we ask for an get his 3 gold.
London builds settler and starts another. Thought about barracks but, York is soo close and can supply vet units for the cities right now.
Settler heading SW, to Southern lake side.

650 BC (5): Lots of other civ's warrior movement, concerned about the 2 approaching from the Russians boarders.
Set lux to 10% to prevent revolt at Nottingham.

630 BC (6); Cathy is polite but her warrior are right next to NewCastle, Trade her WM for Her WM and her 18 gold.

As I suspected, unfortunately too late to really doo anything, Russia attacks and takes New Castle and 11 gold.

610 BC (7): Mine the hills of Cantebury, Mining at Brighton. Elite warrior attacks Russian city of Sevastopol and lose to a reg warrior. Move the scouts out NOW!
Return Lux to 0%. Not quite sure why Nottingham is no longer at risk for revolt??
Can't get China to side with us in war with Russia but did get 20 gold to keep the peace. Change York to Swordsman.
Change research to get Republic in 1 with -1 gold.

590 BC (8): Learn Republic and revolt, Never really sure when the best time to change gov't is but now I did it and I probably should have waited until the war with russia was over.
4 Turns of anarchy. Is it more turns later in the game? Not sure can I survive four turns without getting kicked around by russia I think so.

550 BC (9): Lost a worker to Russian warrior definete , defeated warrior with spear. Sent 3 workers to get the gems on line. Build Reading on the NE lake South of the dyes with vet spear in city limits. Start Temple. Move other worker into Brighton, should've done it early with both workers.

530 Bc (10): Worker holding in Brighton, Spear Forties to heal.
Russia refuses the olive branch and we are still at war but no activity from them. In one turn we are back under control and can mount an offensive if it is not too late.

Of the civs I can see we still hold a tech lead, all but China is at 0 gold, and he only has 16 gold.
Next turn we are back to a stable government and all entertainer will be fired and the production of military will begin.

Hotrod

Like ChrTH it appears I lost a turn at 570 BC. Didn't realize it until I pasted this report in. Anyway here is the link:

Hotrod Shadow 530BC

 

[ChrTh]

I didn't lose a turn, what happened was I forgot to save at 550BC, kept playing to get out of Anarchy, and by the time I did, the autosave only went back to 530BC.

 

[Black Cursor]

With the heat off of me following a good result on the official turn, I felt it was time to kick back a bit. It also seemed like a good time to focus on one of the alternate uses for these shadow turns, namely to try things I might not otherwise do. With Despotism soon to be replaced, I figured it was time to get out the whip while I can!

0) 750 BC - I partially whip the Temples at Liverpool, Warwick and Newcastle. As Sirian demonstrated earlier, this is accomplished by switching to Settler (or something else as close to 20 shields remaining as possible), hurry that, then immediately switch back to Temple. The three Temples are now due in 30. There was no need to second-guess my diplomacy of the previous turn.

-- Nottingham finishes Spear, starts Settler.

1) 730 BC - Feeling that it's now time to reinforce our border towns I wake Nottingham's Veteran Spear and ship him to Newcastle. At Hastings, the road is finished.

-- Forest harvested with shields going to Warwick. Coventry finishes Worker, starts Spear. See Russian Sevastopol founded.

2) 710 BC - At Warwick, road a grass. At Canterbury, the jungle is finally cleared so the new grass/dyes is mined. At Hastings, hills are mined. Our Spear arrives at Newcastle. Luxuries are increased to 10% to support Nottingham's growth, The Republic remains due in 6. York takes a jungle tile resulting in 0 shield waste (Settler in 1).

-- York finishes Settler, starts Spear.

3) 690 BC - The York Settler heads out. York's Spear is rousted out of bed and sent to Nottingham so we can take back the Luxuries. At York, the jungle road is done and the Workers head off in opposite directions. At Canterbury, the German worker roads another grass. At Newcastle and Brighton, the mines are done and followed by roads. At Coventry, a road is started in the hills. At Oxford the road is finished. Hastings takes a grass tile for some token MM work.

-- London finishes Settler, starts Spear.

4) 670 BC - Settlers move. At Oxford, a grass/shield is mined and a road is started on a jungle/gems tile. At Norwich, the cattle irrigation is done, with its road started.

During the previous turns, I've been watching other nations' Warriors moving freely around our lands and thought not much of it. However a quick glance at our western border sees a Russian Warrior FORTIFIED outside of Newcastle -- this is not good. Newcastle itself is reasonably defended (foresight on intial turn or dumb luck?) but our Workers in the area are exposed, assuming Cathy's intentions are hostile. With this in mind, I send the regular Spear from Nottingham to guard the Workers, and/or head to Brighton depending on what shakes out in the following turns.

-- Canterbury finishes its Temple! ...and starts a Spear (we need more now, definitely).

5) 650 BC - Settlers move. At London and York, plains tiles are irrigated. At Warwick, the road is finished. Nottingham takes several grass tiles resulting in only 1 shield wasted (Settler in 1). Cathy's Warrior has not moved...

-- Nottingham finishes Settler, starts Settler. Perhaps a Spear would be better but there are still sites to be had. Hastings finishes Spear, starts Worker.

6) 630 BC - Settlers move with one arriving. The Nottingham Settler is going to try and grab the remaining furs. Hastings Spear heads for Oxford to start reinforcement of towns at our other border (don't want The Hammer getting any ideas similar to Cathy!) At Warwick, a grass tile is mined. The roads are finished at Newcastle and Brighton. The whip makes another appearence -- Brighton's Temple is hurried in the same fashion as earlier (Settler, whip, Temple). Luxuries dropped to 0%, no change to Science as The Republic is due in 2 at 90% or 100%.

I make an interim visit to the diplomatic tables. There is no change in the status quo save China who now has 31g. I put Peace on the table and gain Peace for Peace and 31g (Mao's coffers are bare once again).

-- London finishes Spear, starts Settler. York finishes its Spear. With uppity neighbors, it's now time to get out the big stick, er... fish. York starts a (Veteran) Swordsman.

7) 610 BC - Reading is founded on the fertile river and starts a Worker. York sends a Spear to Nottingham. At Norwich, the road is finished. At Nottingham, the next grass/shield is mined. London sends a Spear to Coventry (more reinforcement of border towns). At Brighton, a grass tile is roaded. With renewed urgency, the whip kisses Dover to hurry the Temple. Science is lowered to 80% with The Republic due in 1.

-- Forest Harvested and shields delivered to Coventry -- for a Spear The Republic is learned and we start research on Construction. Coventry finishes its Spear, starts another. See Russian Sverdlovsk founded in front of our brave settlement party.

8) 590 BC - The remaining Settlers move. The Coventry Spear is sent to Dover, and the cleared grass/game tile is mined. At Nottingham, a grass/shield is mined. The road at Canterbury is finished. With all the shuffling of Spears recently, this last Settler is left without an escort so I switch Reading to Spear.

In 590 BC, the great English nation descends into chaos and Anarchy and I go into damage-control mode:

Science 0% and Luxuries 30% (this is more for the initial turn as a Republic as theses changes have no effect in Anarchy). Looking over our cities, I am forced to add entertainers to York, Nottingham, Hastings, Warwick, Oxford, Liverpool, Dover, and Brighton. The sturm und drang shall pass in about 80 years (4 turns).

9) 570 BC - The rudderless ship that is England sails on... The Settlers move and a grass is roaded at Canterbury. Brinksmanship continues as Cathy parks another warrior (this one a veteran) outside of Newcastle and we ship another Spear from Nottingham to the troubled lands.

10) 550 BC - Government? Ve don't need no steenkin government! Settlers move. The Spearman arrives at Newcastle. At London and York, the irrigation is done and followed by roads. At Coventry, the road is finished.

Not much to note in the final round of diplomacy. Russia and China appear to have traded Philosophy, but regardless, there is nothing to gain at this point in time.

With all the cash we have, it would be wise to rush a number of projects as soon as Anarchy ends -- don't forget the escort for the Settler east of Reading who plans to found at a coastal location that can grab the sea/whales in the future.

Be seeing you...

---> TBC (That Blasted Cathy)


TBC'S Shadow - 550 BC

 

[Melanic Sheep]

Drop in guests, no time to play.

 

[Zot]

0)750BC - Everything looks good.

Between Turns - Nottingham finishes spear, starts a worker.

1)730BC I send the veteran spear to Newcastle, so that that border town has better defense, than just a warrior. With Cathy and Mao and Bizzi and in close proximity, I am nervous. Worker by Hastings, finishes what he was doing, and moves North to clear some jungle, so the Hastings might get access to some reasonable tiles.

- Russia settles Sevastolpol SW of the furs. Forest havested sending shields to Warwick's temple. Coventry finishes worker, starts spear, since Coventry is so close to Babylon.

2)710BC - Coventry's worker helps clear game tile. Newcastle fortifies newcomer spear fortifies and warrior starts patrolling toward Brighton. I shop my map around to Cathy, Hammi, and Mao and get maps from them and their treasuries: Cathy: 6 gold, Hammi: 3 gold, Mao: 26 gold. Note: Joanie and Bizzi don't have anything. I might have sold our map short to Cathy and Hammi, but it did drain their treasuries. Nottingham needs an entertainer for 1 turn, until the worker is finished this comming turn. Since the worker is almost done I can stop working the forest without affecting when worker is due, and only loses one food.

- York finishes settler and starts spear. Nottingham finishes worker and starts another. Note: entertain is no longer around.

3)690BC - York's setter takes one of York's spears to the floodplain. Workers between London and York split up, one to clear the jungle from the dyes NE of York, and the other to help near Hastings.

- London finishes settler and starts spear.

4)670BC - London's settler...I debate between sending it SW (between Warwick and Sevastopol) or NE (N or NE of floodplain). I choose NE. I don't know why exactly. I just don't want Germany to have all that space over there.

- Two warriors from Moscow get near the border! Nottingham finishes worker, starts spear. Canterbury finishes temple, starts harbor to take advantage of the fish. I thought about building a library, but thought that there is too much crap tiles currently around Canterbury, so the fish will be more useful.

5)650BC - Misc Movement.

- Two russian warriors cross the border to stand next to Nescastle! Forest harvested sending shields to Coventry's ... Hastings finishes spear, starts settler.

6)630BC - Misc Movement.

- Russians declare war on us, even though Cathy was polite when I checked at the end of the previous turn. One of the warriors attackes Nescastle and is slaughtered by our spear, who does not lose any health. London finishes spear, starts another. York finishes spear, starts another.

7)610BC - Reading is founded in the floodplains and starts a worker. Cathy refuses to see my envoy. I renegotiate Peace and ROP with Bizzi so that he will get into an alliance against the Russians. Joanie takes the same deal. Mao wants too much to go against Russia, but peace does net us 20 of Mao's 21 gold. Adjust science to only lose 2 gold this turn and still get Republic next turn.

- Discover Republic, start currency, so that we can build marketplaces soon. Bump science up to 100%, even though it does not matter. I look at the cities in the F1 screen. Warwick and Liverpool are the only cities at or above size 3 that do not have at least one happy citizen. I give them each an entertainer. The country revolts. The people admire me even though we are in complete choas and expand the palace, by adding a second story.

8)590BC - Misc Movement.

- Russian warrior moves away.

9)570BC - Gems are now online!

10)550BC - Misc Movement. Cathy still refuses to acknowledge our envoy. Everyone else needs Literature and Replublic. Bizzi, Hammi, and Joanie also need Philosophy. And Joanie is so far behind that she also needs Code of Laws. Mao is ahead of them all technologically, but is still a couple techs behind us. He also has 35 gold, that I cannot figure out how to get away from him.

We are not really in a position to wage war. We are ok for defense in ancient times, but we would need more offensive units (swords and horses) to take it to Cathy. I doubt that she is ready either. I think that the AI thought that Newcastle would be easy pickings, and my paranoia at the beginning of my turn prevented that. We are really getting to the point where there is little expasion room left. With all the 4 of us (us, Cathy, Mao, and Bizzi) bordering quite close together, there is potential for conflicts. With Newcastle and Brighton at the center of the various borders, we need to make sure we have plenty of defensive units. Luckily, we have the infrustructure (roads) and some good cities (York, London, & Nottingham) in close proximity to provide units. I am worried about Warwick and Dover, because they are in a similar position (close proximity to Russian and Babylon borders), without the benefits (roads & support cities) of our current conflict area.

prod-shadow-zot-550bc.zip

 

[Rowain deWolf]

Originally posted by ChrTh

I started building a Barracks in Paris earlier.

You love Joanie way too much when you built her a barrack in Paris

btw. Now i know why you started a Kill-Cathy-SG

Rowain

 

[Sirian]

IT 750BC: Change Nottingham to settler, MM to grow and produce in 2. Wake spear in Norwich and send him to Nottingham. Swap tiles at London so York gets more food. London will pick up 7 7 7, needing 9 on final round to finish settler in four turns. Ah, perfect. The two picked up from growing on fourth round will provide that, so York can keep the food tile all three rounds. Change Dover to worker. Change Hastings to temple.

730BC: Swap Warwick to barracks, whip 1 pop for 20 shields, swap back to temple. Change Newcastle to courthouse. Corruption is over 50%, so the courthouse needs to be built first or the city will forever be insignificant. (The border concern is urgent but not that urgent, as there is no pressure as yet).

710BC: Nottinham trains settler, starts barracks. Settler and spear head west. Spear from Norwich arrives in Nottinham. Newcastle warrior awakened and heads south (ahead of settler).

690BC: York builds settler, starts another. Dover builds worker, starts another. Swap Newcastle to barracks, whip, back to courthouse. Change Liverpool third tile from grass to iron.

670BC: London finishes settler, starts catapult. BG tile returned to London. Worker pair starts road on one gem site, due in five turns. Scout spots Russian settler pair in west, looks like our settler will barely get to a good jungle site in time. London settler heads toward Warwick area. Brighton swap to settler, whip 20 shields, swap back to temple.

650BC: Canterybury builds temple, starts worker. Swap Liverpool to barracks, whip, swap back to temple, whip again. Temple finished next turn. This has to be done in two steps, like this, because the game no longer allows you to whip more than half the pop of a city on one turn.

630BC: Liverpool builds temple, starts walls. Russians aggressively move two warriors next to Newcastle. Is Cathy actually going to attack us? Heh. I wake the bet spear in Canterbury and send him toward Newcastle. Science reduced to 70%.

610BC: Catherine did indeed attack! One warrior defeated, the other fortifies. London builds catapult, starts swordsman. (Will be a regular, but so it goes). Cata moves toward Nottingham. Reading founded on flood plains NE of York, starts worker. Birmingham founded in jungles across the sea from Canterbury, starts temple. Science reduced to 50%. Wake spearman in Dover and send him around to help with Russians on southern front. The settler from London is two turns behind him. I will have to blockade the Russian settler pair a bit to ensure getting a good spot for that settler.

590BC: Republic discovered. As I have a settler due in York this turn, no immediate revolt. Start Construction. York trains settler. Revolt at end of turn! Ooh, nice. Minimum anarchy duration, 4 turns. I have to adjust happiness and hire some taxmen in some of the whipped cities: the ones not yet connected by road to the empire (and not receiving luxury goods).

570BC: The Russian warrior that had been fortified is heading for Birmingham. I will have to use the elite warrior to add protection to that city, which means the end of my blockade down there.

550BC: With the elite warrior in Birmingham, the Russian unit fortifies rather than attack. You can see in the screenie below, where Birmingham was settled.

OVERTIME:

530BC: Our elite warrior fortifies in Birmingham. Catapult arrives in Newcastle, no way the Russians will beat that city down now without swordsmen.

510BC: I appear to have lost the race for the fertile spot NW of Warwick, but there is another spot SW with another iron, where a city can go, so I send the settler onto the road at Warwick to shave a turn off the ETA. Government swapped to Republic. London changed to barracks, York changed to spearman. Civ adjusted for new situation. Science left at 50%. -1gpt, construction due in 9 turns. Diplomacy: China (and possible Russia) has Philosophy. Nobody has Literature yet. China has 62 gold. I am able to drain 39 of it by renegotiating peace, and trading world maps. I trade our territory map to Babylon for 3g and their world map. Everyone else is broke, and Russia won't talk to us.


Sirian's Shadow - 550BC

This file contains both my 550 and 510 turns, so you can see either or both, if you wish. I ran the overtime so you could see what it looks like restoring after Anarchy when I've led into it, as opposed to what it may look like next round when I'm picking up the results from the official turn.


- Sirian

 

[ChrTh]

Originally posted by Rowain deWolf



You love Joanie way too much when you built her a barrack in Paris

btw. Now i know why you started a Kill-Cathy-SG

Rowain

Whoops! I meant London...

I do Joan though

 

[ChrTh]

Sirian -- great call on Birmingham! I didn't even see that as a possible city site.

(I just thought you might like a compliment now and then )

 

[hotrod0823]

Sirian: you really broke out the :whip:!! Isn't there a major penalty for whipping the same city twice. I am probably wrong but just a quick question if that it is really 40 turns with unhappiness?

Hotrod

 

[Sirian]

750BC: Settler at Warwick? That may grab another bit of land, but it's going to come at the cost of permanently surrendering cultural domination at Warwick over to the Babs.

630BC: Your Reading location is good. I still don't like the cost, but at least you got something for it.

610BC: How is this possible? How did they defeat your veteran spearman? Oh what's that you say? You never sent a spearman over there? Compare your result to Fortress Newcastle at the end of my shadow. I know I advocate building warriors, but that situation is not meant to be permanent. The one down in Warwick is worrying me and has been, but you take the chance to improve defenses as the situation permits. My troop shuffle saved the city that you lost. I realize this war came as a surprise. It surprised me, too, but... I was also better prepared for it. There are a lot of little details to manage. Juggling them while pushing peace to its limits is difficult and unforgiving. Don't overreact to this one, just... pay attention to it.

590BC: Birmingham location... well, embracing four extra overlap (one with German city) to redeem one jungle is not a great move in itself, though it wouldn't affect anything until post-industrial. The real problem here is lack of port cities. By not moving one more tile, you give up a strong future port city, and that's rarely a good idea. In a situation were we have ONE port city now and one fishing village, it's a bad idea. There are two more civs out there, and we need some shipbuilding potential. There may also be more landmasses out there where we could go and settle, which may have lux or resources. A ship would be the top priority down at Oxford except the gems there (and some cultural presence) were even more urgent.


Overall Grade: D


count: One. (Reading location)
count: One. (Homeland defense).


- Sirian