Promotions

[woodshadows]

Do open or rough terrain promotions provide defensive bonuses against ranged or only melee?

 

[Peng Qi]

Pretty sure they count against ranged.

 

[woodshadows]

Pretty sure they count against ranged.

Yea, I haven't found anything saying either way so I've been 'wasting' promotions often giving the shield promotion for defense against ranged attacks, since generally those are what do the most damage to me in my battles, getting nailed from multiple directions while attacking a city.

 

[vexing]

they do work for melee units.

 

[The_Quasar]

They definitely count against ranged... as an example, compare the damage you get from an artillery when you have a rifleman which is green, and one with 3 or 4 relevant promotions, it will be totally different.

 

[woodshadows]

so the ranged defense promotions are only if you want units that can take ranged damage on either terrain type? and maybe 5% extra defense per promotion (i think). I won't be taking those any more

 

[binhthuy71]

The Cover promotion (Shield) is the only one that directly minimizes the damage from ranged attacks. Drill and Shock are combat effectiveness promotions. Although they do nothing to minimize damage from ranged attacks they do allow a unit that has taken damage to be more effective (Depending on terrain type. Drill gives a bonus for Rough terrain, Shock for Open terrain) in combat than a non-promoted unit.

 

[woodshadows]

The Cover promotion (Shield) is the only one that directly minimizes the damage from ranged attacks. Drill and Shock are combat effectiveness promotions. Although they do nothing to minimize damage from ranged attacks they do allow a unit that has taken damage to be more effective (Depending on terrain type. Drill gives a bonus for Rough terrain, Shock for Open terrain) in combat than a non-promoted unit.

be more effective? effective while receiving the ranged attack, or effective after having suffered the range attack? basically I'm wondering if you have a rifleman sitting on a hill with the rough terrain promotion on him, and a rifleman sitting on a hill with no promotions on him and both get hit by a cannon with no promotions on the cannon, will the one with the rough terrain promotion suffer less damage than the one without promotions?

 

[Udey1]

The Cover promotion (Shield) is the only one that directly minimizes the damage from ranged attacks. Drill and Shock are combat effectiveness promotions. Although they do nothing to minimize damage from ranged attacks they do allow a unit that has taken damage to be more effective (Depending on terrain type. Drill gives a bonus for Rough terrain, Shock for Open terrain) in combat than a non-promoted unit.

I've played enough to argue this is wrong. I am quite sure the relevant terrain promotions will reduce damage from a ranged attack. A shock 3 infantry sitting on plains will take a much less severe hit from enemy artillery than will a green infantry on the same space.

In middle-age, late wars I often use a (rough terrain 3) unit into an enemy cities range to soak the shots while sitting on a far hill. Ranged strength is still compared to opp unit's strength when firing. The more relevant terrain promotions, the better the comparison.

edit: as vexing said above, this is the case for melee units, not ranged units defending ranged attacks.

 

[binhthuy71]

I've played enough to argue this is wrong. I am quite sure the relevant terrain promotions will reduce damage from a ranged attack. A shock 3 infantry sitting on plains will take a much less severe hit from enemy artillery than will a green infantry on the same space.

In middle-age, late wars I often use a (rough terrain 3) unit into an enemy cities range to soak the shots while sitting on a far hill. Ranged strength is still compared to opp unit's strength when firing. The more relevant terrain promotions, the better the comparison.

You're right: I stand corrected. The game engine calculates the ration of the two combat strengths when calculating damage. So, other than a very unlucky roll of the dice, the promoted unit should take less damage from the same attack.

 

[woodshadows]

So the inevitable question is, how do you disperse your promotions amongst units? Assuming a standard map with a variety of terrain types, are there advantages to rough terrain bonuses over open? Is one terrain type more prevalent over the other?

 

[The_Quasar]

So the inevitable question is, how do you disperse your promotions amongst units? Assuming a standard map with a variety of terrain types, are there advantages to rough terrain bonuses over open? Is one terrain type more prevalent over the other?

It really depends on the map you're on, and whether you're defending or attacking... I like to have some units with drill promotions, and others with the shock promotions, that way, if you're sharp, you can defend or attack anywhere. If you're attacking, I like to have units take the promotion against cities as soon as it's available too... always good for extra damage against cities.

More importantly, look at the map to see what you are likely to need... then take those promotions, that way you're more likely to make good progress. If in doubt, take drill over shock, as it helps to offset a enemy's advantage if you're attacking it in rough ground... shock promotions give you an advantage over other units, drill promotions even up the enemy defender's advantage. On ground that is 50/50 rough and plains type, you'll normally want 2 drill to 1 shock type unit.

 

[Peng Qi]

If I find the terrain to be extremely open with little cover, I'll use the anti-ranged promotions on a few units so they can weather more fire on their way into a city.

 

[Udey1]

It really depends on the map you're on, and whether you're defending or attacking... I like to have some units with drill promotions, and others with the shock promotions, that way, if you're sharp, you can defend or attack anywhere. If you're attacking, I like to have units take the promotion against cities as soon as it's available too... always good for extra damage against cities.

More importantly, look at the map to see what you are likely to need... then take those promotions, that way you're more likely to make good progress. If in doubt, take drill over shock, as it helps to offset a enemy's advantage if you're attacking it in rough ground... shock promotions give you an advantage over other units, drill promotions even up the enemy defender's advantage. On ground that is 50/50 rough and plains type, you'll normally want 2 drill to 1 shock type unit.

YMMV, I generally promote mobile units almost exclusively with shock(horsemen, knights) And I find it very effective to give them the specialty promos because the mobility they have makes more use of them- EX: using horsemen as mobile medic(promotion) units - instead of wasting a melee units promo on medic. Or having a spotter horseman (sentry)

For melee I would suggest against mixing rough/flat terrain bonus upgrades since the powerful promotions (march, ect) come with 3 upgrades to one terrain type.

Finally SINCE melee units receive an automatic defense bonus in rough terrain, I focus most units in shock, with defensive(city damage soak) units specialized in the rough promos. You want to kill enemies in the flatland, not in the rough. Its harder/more costly to kill in the rough. I like to Defend the hill, not attack up it.. (have a ranged unit chip them if they sit in the hills.)

^^ this depends on the map type of course, but standard Pangaea/continents (which I assume is the prevalent setup) makes these choices valid.

edit: ive not been active on these boards for about a year, so if this info is already common and obvious- apologies.