I've been thinking about this the last few days ever since I posted the original proposal. The proposal that Recursive has put through is imho great and with the exception of one or two things I agree wholeheartedly with it and, as the poll results suggest, the vast majority supports it.
Firstly,
@Recursive , to your questioning how to address various ideas and options,
I wanted to say that one possibility is to put forth a few different polls on different options/alternatives to see which elements have the support and which not. For example, we could have a poll about whether people like the mutual exclusiveness of the two types of sanctions. We could have a poll whether people support banning monopoly bonuses from (strategic/luxury) resources in the economic sanctions. We could have a poll whether people support removing the option to make DoFs or Denounce if diplomatically sanctioned. To reduce poll bloat, we could have all this in one poll/thread (kinda like
@Stalker0 did in the founder/pantheon threads). So that's one option to gather more specific feedback from people. I think this will be a major change so we should take enough time to garner the feedback and not hurry.
Secondly, what I was thinking was whether we could make the sanctions a bit more realistic & double-edged for all parties involved, by introducing some bonuses for the sanctioned civs and by introducing some bonuses/maluses to civs that proposed/voted for sanctions.
For example, some bonuses for the sanctioned civ could be (just spitballing ideas):
-
no unhappiness from ideological pressure,
-
negative tourism modifier/gain less tourism versus a sanctioned civ (because of increased distrust, anger towards foreigners in the sanctioned civ - see for example North Korea),
-
harder conditions for foreign spies (increased distrust versus foreigners),
-
inability of other civs to send civilian units to your lands (diplo units, religious units, musicians - see for example North Korea, formerly Cuba, South African Republic during apartheid, Yugoslavia during the turn of the millenium),
-
a temporary happiness boost (for example for the first 20 turns, giving you a bit of time to adjust to the sanctions, based on the "stiff upper lip" determination to stick it up to cruel foreigners that have caused injustice to us),
-
lower passive religious pressure. We could discuss which of these consequences would also apply to other civs (for example would spies of the sanctioned civ also be less effective on foreign soil, except in CS) and which of these consequences would apply to either of the two types of sanctions and which to only one.
Then, let's talk about the diplomatic fallout from proposing/voting regarding sanctions. The sanctions are one of the worst things that can happen to a civ, so in real life even proposing sanctions usually causes diplomatic fallout (see Russia&EU, for example).
So I'd propose a separate diplo modifier for proposing sanctions (the civ that proposed it would get a major diplo hit (perhaps even stronger than from denouncement) vis-a-vis the would-be sanctioned civ and the allies of the target, but would get a major diplo bonus for the enemies of the target)
and, if possible code-wise, the same would apply for the civs that voted in favour/against the sanctions proposal (allies of the target would be happy that you voted against, angry that you voted for; enemies of the target would be happy that you voted for and angry that you voted against). That would make proposing and voting even more meaningful and strategic (for example you'd have to think twice before proposing a sanction, especially if you're not sure it would get the votes necessary).
Similarly, that would also apply to removing the enacted sanctions.
Another thing that we could talk about is whether to soften the sanctions a bit through the realism of smuggling/violation sanctions,
for example by still allowing trade routes, but with diminished returns for both the yields and the tourism bonuses. For example we could set it so you'd only get a certain % of normal yields (gold, science, culture) and a certain % of tourism from TR completion. That's something we could discuss and ask the community, providing of course it's not too hard to code in the first place.
Lastly, two thoughts on some of the elements in the current proposal (I still have to think about a lot of stuff):
- looking at both types of sanctions, economic sanctions would imho be quite a bit more powerful than diplo sanctions, so I wouldn't include banning bonuses from resources;
- for diplomatic sanctions, I'd propose to have the sanctioned civ be hit by a production malus to diplo units and lowered GD generation;
Thanks to
@Recursive for putting so much effort into this and to all in the community for such extensive feedback!
Influence modifier to all other civs towards you. You could also make spies from foreign nations less effective/slower inside your empire if you are sanctioned.
Needs in all cities, since the populace's awareness of their positional level of poverty/illiteracy/etc. is dimmed by having less knowledge of the outside world.
