Protestantism in RFC

[Panopticon]

It should be working now. Re-download, or simply change the following line of code:

Sid Meier's Civilization 4\Beyond the Sword\Mods\Rhye's and Fall of Civilization\Assets\Python\screens

Line 198: change
                                if (not gc.getPlayer(0).isPlayable() and i !- 0 and i != 2):  #late start condition (2 == Islam)
to
                                if (not gc.getPlayer(0).isPlayable() and i != 0 and i != 2):  #late start condition (2 == Islam)

 

[Cato the Elder]

Thanks a million. ^^

 

[Panopticon]

No problem, feel free to send your comments about how to improve it if you have any.

 

[Hangly Man]

Would it be possible to introduce similar schisms in Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, etc? It would be really fun to see the Islamic world split into Shia and Sunni camps.

 

[Hangly Man]

I chose the Dutch, and started with just a catapult in the south pole. Is this a bug?

 

[Panopticon]

I think the Dutch thing is a known bug in RFC.

Schisms in other religions are difficult to model. There's a thread where we tried to introduce them recently, but I didn't have time to continue.

An example is Shi'a Islam: how does this schism work? They split after the death of the Prophet, but in game terms this is only 3-5 turns after Arabia arrives on the scene. Islam won't usually have arrived even in Persia by then; do you artificially create Shi'a there, using code? The way the split worked is awkward to model in RFC, and the Shi'a sect has rarely held power anyway, so it was a bridge too far for me.

 

[Cethegus]

I think the Dutch thing is a known bug in RFC.

Schisms in other religions are difficult to model. There's a thread where we tried to introduce them recently, but I didn't have time to continue.

An example is Shi'a Islam: how does this schism work? They split after the death of the Prophet, but in game terms this is only 3-5 turns after Arabia arrives on the scene. Islam won't usually have arrived even in Persia by then; do you artificially create Shi'a there, using code? The way the split worked is awkward to model in RFC, and the Shi'a sect has rarely held power anyway, so it was a bridge too far for me.

Also, Muslims are already handicapped enough in RFC. They don't need any more distinctive factors between one another. The way I see it, the only schism that works in Civ IV: RFC is the one between Catholic and Protestant Christianity. No other religion needs handicapping as much as Christianity does and Orthodoxy didn't historically have just as big of an effect in Christians' internal affairs as Protestantism did.

 

[Panopticon]

It's certainly more difficult to recreate the feel of the Great Schism between West and East, because you never see something like the Crusades in Europe, so there's not as much opportunity for tension as there is among Catholics and Protestants later on.

 

[Hangly Man]

I think the Dutch thing is a known bug in RFC.

Schisms in other religions are difficult to model. There's a thread where we tried to introduce them recently, but I didn't have time to continue.

An example is Shi'a Islam: how does this schism work? They split after the death of the Prophet, but in game terms this is only 3-5 turns after Arabia arrives on the scene. Islam won't usually have arrived even in Persia by then; do you artificially create Shi'a there, using code? The way the split worked is awkward to model in RFC, and the Shi'a sect has rarely held power anyway, so it was a bridge too far for me.

In my last game all of Europe was Buddhist and Japan was a vassal of the Incas. It's not unusual for these games to deviate drastically from historical reality.

Have a schism as a randomly-generated event. If one religion gets really large and covers too much area, bam, they have a schism that triggers an intra-faith war.

Also the power of a religion depends on who has the Apostolic Palace. It's usually a Christian country, but not always.

 

[Panopticon]

Yes, but... whenever something like Buddhist Europe happens, there's a good in-game reason for it. Christianity will have been founded in China, or the Christian holy city will have been razed. Buddhism will spread through Persia to Asia Minor to Eastern Europe, etc.

Your second proposal is generally covered by this mod. Islam doesn't usually become huge like in real life; it rarely spreads east of Afghanistan, where hundreds of millions of Muslims live in reality.

 

[Hangly Man]

This modmod is completely borked for me. Playing the unlocked starts I always start with one catapult in Antarctica, and with the locked ones I start in the right places but with only one warrior/settler and no tech.

Did I do something wrong?

Edit: I fixed it, nevermind.

 

[Cethegus]

It's certainly more difficult to recreate the feel of the Great Schism between West and East, because you never see something like the Crusades in Europe, so there's not as much opportunity for tension as there is among Catholics and Protestants later on.

Can the Crusade event be coded to start more often in the 600 AD start? Now that the Crusades target Jerusalem instead of Rome, there would be a good reason for the Christians and Arabs to fight with each other.

 

[ius_iurandi]

Also, Muslims are already handicapped enough in RFC. They don't need any more distinctive factors between one another. The way I see it, the only schism that works in Civ IV: RFC is the one between Catholic and Protestant Christianity. No other religion needs handicapping as much as Christianity does and Orthodoxy didn't historically have just as big of an effect in Christians' internal affairs as Protestantism did.

Just to be clear, the Catholic/Orthodox split had an enormous effect on Christianity and European history: If the Pope isn't the Western Patriarch, we don't have an HRE, and if the Pope doesn't claim primacy back in the day, we don't have Protestantism. The actual feud that lead two the East/West split was over two distinct issues: First, whether anyone could claim to be the "first among equals" or "Successor to Peter"; Second, whom that would be. The East/West spilt, in large part, was because of the desire to create a hierarchical church - simultaneously, it allowed for said hierarchy's formation. Without a rigid hierarchy and the resulting absolute dogmas, Martin Luther essentially has nothing to get in trouble over: he can preach what he wants.

 

[Cethegus]

Just to be clear, the Catholic/Orthodox split had an enormous effect on Christianity and European history: If the Pope isn't the Western Patriarch, we don't have an HRE, and if the Pope doesn't claim primacy back in the day, we don't have Protestantism. The actual feud that lead two the East/West split was over two distinct issues: First, whether anyone could claim to be the "first among equals" or "Successor to Peter"; Second, whom that would be. The East/West spilt, in large part, was because of the desire to create a hierarchical church - simultaneously, it allowed for said hierarchy's formation. Without a rigid hierarchy and the resulting absolute dogmas, Martin Luther essentially has nothing to get in trouble over: he can preach what he wants.

However, the split between the Eastern and Western Christian Church is being represented in other ways in RFC; Protestantism at the same time is being completely ignored although it had huge social and dividing changes in the 16th century Europe. And I don't think the 30 Years' War spurred from nothing, thinking in Civ terms.

So, I don't think adding Protestantism instead of Orthodoxism is entirely unfair... this is Civ IV we're talking about. It has to be in terms with gameplay too.

 

[Panopticon]

Updated for RFC 1.184.

 

[Panopticon]

Updated with one change to speak of: The spread rate of Protestantism is trebled, to account for Rhye's treatment of Judaism in the DLL (which I only discovered today). It should spread more quickly now.

 

[The Turk]

Hi, I was just wondering if Protestinism has a higher chance developing in Germany, Nehterlands and the Nordic countries rather then in Spain, France and italy? Because I don't want to play a game that is too historically inaccurate. Thank You

 

[Cethegus]

Hi, I was just wondering if Protestinism has a higher chance developing in Germany, Nehterlands and the Nordic countries rather then in Spain, France and italy? Because I don't want to play a game that is too historically inaccurate. Thank You

Based on my experience, the historically Protestant countries have higher (much higher) chance of adopting Protestantism than historically Catholic countries. So much that it's almost deterministic that Germany and England adopt Protestantism while France and Spain remain Catholic.

There's one thing I want to criticize, though - the art. Could you look for and add better art for Protestantism icon and perhaps a golden cross for Catholicicsm?

 

[Panopticon]

No because it would be somewhat difficult to distinguish two crosses, and besides I have finished developing this mostly technical mod. I agree that the art is not perfect though, I designed it myself as an afterthought.

 

[The Turk]

Great! Then this mod seems the mod for me But I was just wondering how I get it to work properly and if this mod is compatible with other mods that run on RFC?