Pushing for the Greco-Roman religion

[The Q-Meister]

As Duuk said. All non-Judaic theisms are paganism. Hinduism is paganism, Shintoism is paganism, Mahayana Buddhism is paganism...

They're only considered "Pagans" to Christians who like using insulting terminology when referring to non-Judaic religions. I think it's a bit narrow minded myself but back to topic....

I understand that both Firaxis and many people here have pointed out that 7 religions in the game is a fixed number and any more would ruin the gameplay. I understand that; however, I think I have a solution.

At the "Custom Game" screen, just as you can choose which civilizations will be in the game you can also have the option of selecting which 7 religions will be in the game from a list of say 9 or 10. So the number of religions that are actually playable in the game still remain constant at 7, however, there is an option to have a different religion among the 7 for those that wish to do so.

If not, then the default will be the original 7 religions.

It will be just like selecting a certain numbers of civs on a small map, the numbers of civs in the game remain the same but you can pick and choose which civs you want. I see no reason why the same options can't be made with religions.

This makes everyone happy - The numbers stays at 7, gameplay is unaffected, less work for Firaxis and more religions are included for that that wish to use them.

Personally I would like to see more polytheistic religions , particularly a Greco-Roman one and a American one for the Aztecs, Incans (and possibly Mayans in a future expansion) which I find fascinating.

 

[leftisthominid]

They're only considered "Pagans" to Christians who like using insulting terminology when referring to non-Judaic religions. I think it's a bit narrow minded myself but back to topic....

I understand that both Firaxis and many people here have pointed out that 7 religions in the game is a fixed number and any more would ruin the gameplay. I understand that; however, I think I have a solution.

At the "Custom Game" screen, just as you can choose which civilizations will be in the game you can also have the option of selecting which 7 religions will be in the game from a list of say 9 or 10. So the number of religions that are actually playable in the game still remain constant at 7, however, there is an option to have a different religion among the 7 for those that wish to do so.

If not, then the default will be the original 7 religions.

It will be just like selecting a certain numbers of civs on a small map, the numbers of civs in the game remain the same but you can pick and choose which civs you want. I see no reason why the same options can't be made with religions.

This makes everyone happy - The numbers stays at 7, gameplay is unaffected, less work for Firaxis and more religions are included for that that wish to use them.

Personally I would like to see more polytheistic religions , particularly a Greco-Roman one and a American one for the Aztecs, Incans (and possibly Mayans in a future expansion) which I find fascinating.

Thats what i meant when I said paganism. I was referring to the Christian definition

 

[rickmc]

i thought it was just an olympic sport....

 

[leftisthominid]

i thought it was just an olympic sport....

What are you smoking
The olympics are just a ritual for the gods

 

[HourlyDaily]

According to Christians and Muslims, any non-Judiac religion is paganism.



The greco-roman religion was a very "temple based" organized religion, and its exclusion is amazing.

Personally, I'm disappointed they went with "named" religions instead of having a chance to found a "specific" religion with certain techs/wonders.

IE: <CivName> + "monotheism" or "polytheism" or "mysticism" or "moral code". Under this case, it would remove the "unreality" of Hindu Spain and instead have "Iberian Polytheism" as the religion name.

Or... "Roman Monotheism" instead of Christianity.

Or "Arabian Monotheism" instead of Islam.

Etc.

Not a bad idea, but I would have modded the names back into their real life counterparts anyway.

 

[DarkOpus]

Animism might be interesting, but thinking that G-RP has anything to do with it is wrong. Polytheism is entirely different than animism, in too many aspects.

The votive offerings aren't a criterion - you can find such things even in modern Christianity.

My point wasn't that the Graeco-Roman Pantheon should include aspects of animism, rather that animism is present in the Graeco-Roman world and part of religious life, much as it is today. In a thread dedicated to the religious beliefs of the classical world writing off a major section of it would be missing the point somewhat. It would also be an interesting discussion to see how such a key part of daily life could be integrated into the game.

Votive offerings in modern religions are a simple continuity in form of worship and a fairly natural part of most forms of worship. Another aspect of animism would be, for example, the setting up of local shrines to abstract 'spirits', the forest, or a spring. In the classical world the Pantheon of gods and animism operate side-by-side as neither are exclusive. The two could be connected in terms of 'sacred sites' (see the apropriation of powerful 'other' dieties into the Pantheon, Cybele from Ida for example). Hope that's cleared things up for you.

 

[chef pablo]

should religion be a tech thing?i duno i think it should more organic in its spread start with maybee 4 base religions these being tech based and as they spread and bump into each other they evolve into new religions i dont know where to start but if you look at christianity and muslim they were certainly spin offs from judaism as it meld into populations with different religions,same as with lutheran and methodist.

 

[leftisthominid]

should religion be a tech thing?i duno i think it should more organic in its spread start with maybee 4 base religions these being tech based and as they spread and bump into each other they evolve into new religions i dont know where to start but if you look at christianity and muslim they were certainly spin offs from judaism as it meld into populations with different religions,same as with lutheran and methodist.

i dunno, the current system is pretty good

 

[theimmortal1]

How about something like this:


2 to 5 religions per era up until the late stages of the game. But at most 7 religions can be founded. But it is a race to see which ones are founded first. Each religion can give more specific traits. And if one religion is founded that means that their counterpart could not be founded.

 

[cuchulain]

How about something like this:


2 to 5 religions per era up until the late stages of the game. But at most 7 religions can be founded. But it is a race to see which ones are founded first. Each religion can give more specific traits. And if one religion is founded that means that their counterpart could not be founded.

I agree, I don't see why they wouldn't do something like that. Or they could, like I suggested somewhere, let you choose how many religions you want in the game. I like playing on huge maps with 18 civs; having a few more religions isn't going to ruin the balance.

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

As I said, why not tie extra religious techs to 'resource' requirements? If you don't have the 'resource', you cannot study the tech. So, for instance, you have the Ossirian (Egyptian) Pantheon religion-which requires Mummification, a tech which leads off of Polytheism. The only thing is that Mummification requires pitch/tar. If you don't have it, you can't study mummification and, ergo, you can't found the Ossirian Pantheon.

Alternative two is the one I suggested previously-representing the 'undocumented' religions using religious civics. So if you are Christian-but have the Orthodox civic-then you are currently Eastern Orthodox. If you have no religion, but are running the Pantheist civic, then you probably follow one of the many polytheistic faiths which existed around the Mediterranean. If you have the Sacrificial Civic, then maybe you follow a religion along the lines of the Quetzal faith, with lots of blood sacrifice.

Aussie_Lurker.

 

[chef pablo]

Is there a penalty for a city not being part of the state religion?The christians and jews gave the romans all kinds of greef before they switched i wander if that could be represented...
Aussie I like the resorce required tech same idea i had for minor civs somebodt realy needs to see if this can be coded there are a lot of ideas we can accomplish doing this.

 

[salty]

It'd be nice to get a "pagan religion" as a consolation prize when you don't manage to be first, e.g. get Egyptian religion if you miss getting mysticism first or maybe Greco-roman/12 Olympians religion for polytheism. Minor religion would be able to build altars (= temples without the cultural bonus), but not monasteries and not catherderals.

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

It can be coded VERY easily Pablo.

The CanDoResearch section of python allows you to select a whole host of civics, religion and resource based limitations to research, just as CanBuild allows the same thing to be done with improvements and wonders.
Trust me, this and unit attrition are both VERY HIGH on my modding agenda.

Aussie_Lurker.

 

[leftisthominid]

We want it in a expansion, not as a mod

 

[Brian_B]

I believe they stated that seven was the right number of religions for balance purposes. Considering religions in this game are indistinguishable from one another in terms of effect on gameplay I doubt they would add another just for the purpose of aesthetics and mess with balance.

 

[SmokeyD]

Greco-Roman paganism was not in any meaningful sense a unique and independent religion, and it certainly didn't have the distinct theologies and practises which mark out the religions used in the game. Greco-Roman religions were extremely loosely defined, with basically any being worshipped within the territorial extent of their respective polities being incorporated into the Pantheon, or subsumed by an existant deity.

The most notable exceptions to this are Judaism and Christianity, because they refused to acknowledge the validity of the pagan pantheon, and the drudic religions of Celtic Europe, because they posed a severe political threat to Roman authority.

 

[leftisthominid]

I'm bumping this thread

 

[Instant_Cereal]

Well, I like the idea, but even if there was a Roman-Greco religion, what tech would give it? Polytheism would be the most logical tech to discover it (Poly even allows the Parthenon to be built), but Hinduism already has that. Perhaps make it so the discovery of Polytheism allows a choice between Hinduism and a Roman-Greco religion? That way founding an early religion isn't such a monumental feat without Mysticism. The cost for researching Polytheism would have to be upped a little as well (I think it already costs just a tad more than Meditation).

Regarding the paganism civic: I think this civic represents a lot of the druid-type schtuff of ancient Europe. Some argue that Roman-Greco Gods and so on were the same way, but they were actually more organized than you'd think. For example, much like churches of today, the Gods and their temples recieved donations, money, etc., and were quite organized (for ancient standards).

I'm not sure though; I think it would neat, but just unnecessary.

 

[leftisthominid]

Well we got the Temple of Artemis! Yay!

That adds one more Greco-Roman temple that we could have