PW-01: Holy word

[pawelo]

At first came the light.

Well no, at first it was this home-made red fruit mixture the shaman is preparing in the corner of his hut. The one that burns like hell and makes you feel dizzy.

Then came the light.

A blinding light, covering all the view and making everything look painfully white.

And then, the light spoke:

“Asoka, son of Bindusara and his successor for thy tribe spiritual guidance, thou shall be my sole and only Holy voice in this world”

Still surprised by the vocal eloquence of the light, Asoka just stared and mumbled something about not being ready.

“Thou art ready, son of Bindusara, though you don’t know it yet. Thy tribe is deeply spiritual and can raise many monuments to thy Gods. Aside from it, thy neighbors art deeply pagan tribes, cherishing more money, art and warfare than their spiritual egos.”

“But I’m still a novice” Asoka said, “I can only face lessen challenges. How can I stand up to reign my people following your guidance, O Light?” asked Asoka, embarrassed not to know how to address the speaking light.

“Thou may call for help of thy fellows. Together thou have a Holy mission of spreading Gods word to the entire world. And this thou shall achieve or...”

“Or…?” asked Asoka, hoping that the Light would switch off soon, leaving his painful head and eyes rest a little.

“There shall be no or. Thou will achieve it.” groaned the Light.

“Thy mission is written in stone to this Decalogue:

1 – Thou will found every single religion in the known world.

2 – Thou will build every single holy shrine for all thy beliefs.

3 – Thou will spread thy initial religion to every known city in the world by any mean.

4 – Thou will achieve to spread every belief into every city thy tribe possesses before the end of thy reign.

5 – Thou will seek to convert every neighboring tribe to thy beliefs.

6 – Thou will remain peaceful to thy neighbors, unless they declare war on thou.

7 – Thou will not keep more than a third of thy neighbor’s conquered cities.

8 – Thou will assist a brother in belief tribe with any peaceful knowledge he shall request.

9 – Thou will never give up thy own freedom to become a vassal to a neighbor.

10 – Thou shall win peacefully.”

And the Light disappeared.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Meet Asoka, looking for 4-5 Prince / Monarch players to help him to his holy mission.

Here are the basic settings – subject to discussion with the group:

Map Script: Pangaea
Climate: Moderate
Sea Level: Low
Resources: Standard
Game Speed: Normal/Epic

Civilization: India
Leader: Asoka (Spiritual, Organized)
World Size: Standard
Opponents: 5 AI, Our home selection of AI ignoring religions
Difficulty: Monarch / Prince
Victory Types: all enabled, we must win by Religion, Culture, Diplomacy or Space
Options: none
Versions: BtS 3.13 with Bhruic’s unofficial patch

Variants:
See the Decalogue above.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

I hope this challenge looks appealing to you. I am trying to set up a peaceful and speedy build game, different from this all warmongering we experience usually. Would it not be nice to found Buddhism/Hinduism and every other religion, instead of a usual CoL from Oracle slingshot, Theo/Philo bulb…?

Asoka is an extremely powerful guy when it comes to religions, and his civics flexibility added to cheap courthouses make him ‘The Man’ in this kind of game.

Although I am comfortable on Prince, this ‘everyone is happy with me’ + religions + organized + nice central start + future shrines income should make it manageable providing we get and maintain some defense during the peaceful build up on Monarch. However, if the group is uneasy on Monarch, we can set it to Prince.

Fancy to give this one a try ? It's my first (hopefully of many) SG, so experienced SG leaders are welcome as well in the roster

Roster:
1. pawelo
2. r_rolo1
3. Zargon
4. TriviAl
5. Pholkhero
6. stuge

Once I get some sign-ups and we agree on the settings above, I'll roll up the map, etc, and post a save. Hopefully, it will be before the week-end

Edit: Roster full.

Thanks to -Imhotep- for allowing me to include this Deviant Minds SG etiquette that will be appliable to this SG :

Spoiler :

Alpha: The quality of your report outweighs the quality of your play. We’re here to have fun, and, of course, winning is fun, but losing in style is preferable to a boring win. Remember, your report should be a new reply to alert other players.

Bravo: Reports should be detailed, with plenty of screen shots and player commentary, explanations, musings, etc; an auto-log dump will not suffice. Shots of the F9 screens and overview shots of the empire are nice too, once in a while.

Charlie: Punctuality rocks! “24/48” means post a "got it" within 24 hours of when the last save was posted, and play within 48 hours of that ‘got it.’ Waiting 47 hours to ask for a skip is lame. Punk out two times in a row, and you’ll be dropped from the roster. Skips and swaps are fine, but try to let us know sooner, rather than later.

Delta: Major game decisions (war/peace declarations, religion swaps, city placement, etc) should be arrived at via group consensus.
1. If the team disagrees with you, either argue your case better, or do it their way. Do NOT just blow them off and do it your way because it's your turn.
2. However, if there’s no consensus and you’re up, do it your way and explain why. Conversely, if someone else is up, don't whine when they do it their way.
3. Similarly, overruling techs or city builds is rude and should be done via consensus, barring an emergency.
4. In extraordinary situations, sometimes an opportunity presents itself that the group didn't foresee. If the consequences of it are great (war declarations, birth of Great People, even some quests), players should stop, and refer the question to the group.

Echo: Being a better player does not give you the right to belittle anyone else or their play. Other people are going to disagree with you on major decisions; get used to the idea, and play nice. If not, take your ball and go home.

Foxtrot: Thread spam is good. Trash talking, poking fun, gentle ribbing, virtual noogies, and generally horsing around are all encouraged, but don’t be rude. See any SG I or other DMers have been in to see what I mean.

Golf: Automate sparingly.
1. Workers should almost never be automated, except perhaps late-game or building a trade network. However, if you have to, set your game options to “disallow automated worker forest chopping” and “keep previous improvements.”
2. Use of the “Emphasis” buttons is fine, but let the group know and explain your reasoning (specialization is a major game decision). If you prevent growth in a city, let the group know and remind them to take it off. Do NOT let the governor select build orders.
3. Sending units on go-to routes that last beyond your set is acceptable only if they’re heading for a rally point or if you otherwise inform your teammates.

Hotel: NEVER fortify Great People. Just press enter for 15 turns. Is that so hard?

India: Sign spamming is rude. Signs can be helpful reminders, but too many signs makes them easily ignored. Once a sign is no longer valid, delete it.

 

[r_rolo1]

The Hydra rises again from the shadows.... Sullla must be proud
You can count with a non "experienced SG leader" ( in fact , never been a SG leader until now ) for this.... But can't we be Ramesses ? We'll need a lot of Prophets.... And a lake in the capitol's 1st radius would be good as well

 

[pawelo]

Welcome r_rolo1!

You're in, in my opinion you're experienced enough

And you're right, we'll need at least 7 Great Prophets

 

[TriviAl]

This isn't a sign up.

I'd love to for lots of reasons: 2 good players already signed up. This has a great first post writeup. And the variant sounds really fun - the peaceful condition on top of the hydra is cool!

However, got 2 SGs and 2 RB games on the go - and work is busy - any more would overload and things wouldn't get done.

On the hydra variant, I have some experience - got all obsessed with it a while ago and spent ages making them. Did get a fair few up and running, although I found them suprisingly tricky...

Unsuprisingly, the hardest part being Meditation and Polytheism - and needing to chase after Monotheism pretty fast after that - I found it interesting how far behind you can get chasing those instead of the usual worker techs.

Figure some unforested hills would really help - start with mining and can get a worker doing something early on? Push up production for early settlers and workers.

Good luck with it and I'll definitely lurk this one!

 

[pawelo]

This isn't a sign up.

I'd love to for lots of reasons: 2 good players already signed up. This has a great first post writeup. And the variant sounds really fun - the peaceful condition on top of the hydra is cool!

However, got 2 SGs and 2 RB games on the go - and work is busy - any more would overload and things wouldn't get done.

Too bad you can't make it but I undestand what you mean by overload .

On the hydra variant, I have some experience - got all obsessed with it a while ago and spent ages making them. Did get a fair few up and running, although I found them suprisingly tricky...

Unsuprisingly, the hardest part being Meditation and Polytheism - and needing to chase after Monotheism pretty fast after that - I found it interesting how far behind you can get chasing those instead of the usual worker techs.

Figure some unforested hills would really help - start with mining and can get a worker doing something early on? Push up production for early settlers and workers.

Good luck with it and I'll definitely lurk this one!

I think your thoughts and advice will definitely be of great value!
Thanks for quality initial thoughts!

 

[Zargon]

Just to make sure, is Bhruic’s unofficial patch the 3.13 patch? Or is it something else entirely? I'm too lazy to dual install to cover two versions of the game.

 

[pholkhero]

wow ~ this looks particularly appealing, as I like the rules, and would like to share an SG with you, pawelo, but I *think* i'm just too swamped right now, and so will have to lurk.

maybe if things change, and you need a back-up player down the line, i can hop in.

lurking away . . .

 

[pawelo]

Just to make sure, is Bhruic’s unofficial patch the 3.13 patch? Or is it something else entirely? I'm too lazy to dual install to cover two versions of the game.

Bhruic unofficial patch corrects several annoying issues and crashes in 3.13.

You can find it here :
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=246057

If players disagree, we can go without it.

I'll be happy anyway

Do you join us Zargon ?
You are welcome.

@Pholkhero & TriviAl
This one should be rather light - few warring, mainly builds.
Are you sure you can't squeeze it in between your current projects ?
I would be happy to play a SG alogside with you guys.

 

[Zargon]

Will it break my other SGs that aren't playing with the patch? If not, then I'm in. It'll be fun to play the balancing act of founding every single religion without getting too far behind on the other stuff.

 

[pawelo]

Will it break my other SGs that aren't playing with the patch? If not, then I'm in. It'll be fun to play the balancing act of founding every single religion without getting too far behind on the other stuff.

I think it's not a breaker as it mainly corrects crashing issues.

The save compatibility is guaranteed as I lately played without the patch a with people playing with the patch. I only installed this one recently and it didn't break people's game.

Just to be sure, I think it is wise to go through the unofficial patch thread

Glad you're in!

 

[pholkhero]

Are you sure you can't squeeze it in between your current projects ?
I would be happy to play a SG alogside with you guys.

ow, ow! My arm!! okay, i'm in, but put me towards the end of the roster~ i guess since one game is a 1CC and one is a 3CC (and one looking to be heading for a squashing in the near future), it won't be too hard.

i, like, pawelo, cut Civ out of my sleep time ~ i mean, really, which is more important??

given the variant, i would say Prince is the upward limit to try and get all 3 ~ and though you already have mentioned Asoka, perhaps Gandhi, with his Philo trait, might be a better leader ~ found a couple naturally, bulb CoL w/Oracle, bulb Theo and DR w/3 prophets. If we run only priests, we'd be guarenteed to get 7 more GPs. Also, Angkor Wat might be good for the additional +1 h per priest (come to think of it, Pyramids would be good, too ~ priests w/2 hammers, 3 bulbs, and 3(?) coins can't be all that bad, no?)

 

[Atlas]

forget a lake, you need an Oasis and here is the thread to read to get some ideas

http://www.compoundeye.net/civ/nonviolent/index.html

You all will need to hand pick your opponents to make sure none start with Mysticism

 

[pawelo]

ow, ow! My arm!! okay, i'm in, but put me towards the end of the roster~ i guess since one game is a 1CC and one is a 3CC (and one looking to be heading for a squashing in the near future), it won't be too hard.

i, like, pawelo, cut Civ out of my sleep time ~ i mean, really, which is more important??

given the variant, i would say Prince is the upward limit to try and get all 3 ~ and though you already have mentioned Asoka, perhaps Gandhi, with his Philo trait, might be a better leader ~ found a couple naturally, bulb CoL w/Oracle, bulb Theo and DR w/3 prophets. If we run only priests, we'd be guarenteed to get 7 more GPs. Also, Angkor Wat might be good for the additional +1 h per priest (come to think of it, Pyramids would be good, too ~ priests w/2 hammers, 3 bulbs, and 3(?) coins can't be all that bad, no?)

I knew you would crack

Hopefully TriviAl will do too, with his experience of this kind of games he should be a great candidate to fill the roster.

Anyway, go for Prince. Maybe I underestimated the challange when setting up this one.

I hear your vote for Gandhi - I have thought about him too, but he has been so overplayed in games over here, that I gave a shot to Asoka. You are right anyway - Gandhi should be more appropriate to face this challange.

I'll let the group decide and adapt the story - though it will be more difficult to imagine Mahatma drunk

Hey, I cut my sleep to avoid traffic coming to work in the capital. Still, as I have civ on my prof laptop, I still can manage an hour at work before people start coming in (I hope no one I know @work will recognize me ).

 

[r_rolo1]

@ Atlas

Non violent Gandhi... Now I remember But he missed Islam

Nice catch, Atlas... But we are allowed to build military

@ pawelo : Sleep? What is that?

 

[pawelo]

forget a lake, you need an Oasis and here is the thread to read to get some ideas

http://www.compoundeye.net/civ/nonviolent/index.html

You all will need to hand pick your opponents to make sure none start with Mysticism

Thanks for the great link - I think about having a nice reading tomorrow

As for the AI, it will be a home selection. I thought about choosing non-Mysticism civs but also civs that like to found early religions like Willem and Judaism, Toku and Confu etc. for example. Surely no Izzie nor Monty around

 

[stuge]

I'll sign up, if you can live with a little uncertainity. I have no idea how hard school will be on me in the nearish future, so I may have drop out at some point.

Though I'm not certain that being a CIV drop-out is better than being a school drop-out.

 

[pawelo]

@Group:

As we approach the week-end , time to decide on settings and get this one going. I was thinking about rolling the game in 10 hours or so - time to make it to home for the week-end.

I like friday evening and saturday morning and early afternoon for civ-ing, as at this moment the RL ( read fiancée ) overload is the least ( I think I'll edit this one, don't want to be sleeping on the couch ).

Anyway, back to our business.

Here are subjects on which I would like to hear from you:

* Leader: Do we keep original Asoka, or switch to Gandhi for philo & extra GP points ?

* Difficulty level: Prince or Monarch?

* Map/size & speed: large/epic or normal/standard ?

* Variants:
- I would switch off goody huts - don't want someone popping up Mysticism from his initial hut
- I would keep events on - those are just awesome since 3.13, and wouldn't hurt us
- I consider switching off barbs - I don't like the idea of a neighbor building GW and all barb spam us while we focus on religion. We will already have a pretty hard time with foreign AIs.

* AI: we have to handpick our opposition. Based on the fantastic dj_anion's BtS reference sheet you can find here, I shortlisted a bunch of more or less pagan AIs. Please place them in the order of your preference, and I will compile a list weighting your choices (1pt for the first, 2pt for the second etc. - the five AIs with least points are selected ). And the nominees are (alphabetical order):
- Alexander for his epic "The Last Phalanx Standing"
- Augustus Caesar and his full-action "Rush Praetorians"
- Cyrus for "The Road To Immortality"
- Darius and his documentary "Rich Immortal Is Better Than A Dead One"
- Genghis Khan and the war essay "The Horde"
- Gilgamesh with his first comedy "Why Fear The Gods As I'm A God Myself"
- Hammurabi and an autobiographic movie "How a creative and religious has-been becomes an organized warmonger in 30 steps"
- Hannibal in his major achievement "Mercenaries Rule The World Better Than The Elephants"
- Julius Caesar in "Since I Was Back-Stabbed, I Do The Same Myself"
- Mao Zedong for a short film "Pagan Powerhouse"
- Pericles and a philosophical essay on "Why Art Is Better Than Religion?"
- Ragnar, well no need to present his work, "The Berserker" is top in the Box Office
- Shaka for a drama entitled "Early Dying Neighbors"
- Sitting Bull and his family movie "Little Totem In The Prairie"
- Stalin and a propaganda work "Comrade God Works For Me"

This shortlist is based on - prefers no religion in particular, doesn't start with Mysticism and doesn't focus on religion.
Other choices are possible, as long as the guy/girl doesn't focus on religion. Feel free to extend the nominees list.

Showtime tonight

* Starting location: I am in favor of re-rolling the start in order to give us a chance to achieve this mission. Optimally, it would be great to have a plain hill to start on, an Oasis, 1-2 non-forested hills (with a gold or two ), and a river or lake start. I start the voting on how many re-rolls I will have to do to get such a start

We can already get it going at four players - hopefully we will have an extra player (TriviAl confirmation?) or two before tonight.

 

[pawelo]

@Stuge

Welcome aboard.
You have my eternal dilemma - during Civ 1 and Civ 2 I also tended to be a little bit more ( to say it softly ) appealed by the civ than by school
And don't worry - if you manage the latter a little bit, in a few years you will be able to lurk forums from your work as 100% of working civfanatics do

 

[stuge]

My thoughts:

I'd pick Gandhi as our leader. Generating 7+ GPs without philosophical would be quite a challenge to overcome, especially since we should expect the RNG to screw us over with a 1% odds great artist.

Goody huts, events and barbs all on. This will produce some random difficulities so we can choose prince as difficulity level with a good conscience. Also, standard/normal would be a good setting if there are only 6 civs all told. Otherwise the AI will REX itself huge empires and we'll be screwed from mid-game onwards.

Your list of AIs is awesome. God I laughed hard at it. My choices:

Alexander
Stalin
Mao
JC
Hammurabi

That bunch should ensure that the game won't get boring once expansion has stopped.

 

[TriviAl]

Aw - why not! It's only sleep I'd be missing out on!

So count me in!

And like you say it'd be a nice quick game!

Settingswise, I'd be in favor of Prince with a nasty AI pick - I love Stuges list - although I'd be half tempted to replace Mao with the lovely Shaka. Will certainly make the peacemongering more interesting!

From my messing around with this, I found it really tough to work on Monarch - Prince was quite do-able, but not a 100% lock in.

Think Standard size keeps things faster... but happy to supersize if everyone wants to. Either speed setting is good - like both equally.

In terms of layout, I think this would be most fun with some early friends to play with? Pangea might be a bit too vicious, perhaps snaky continent archipelago or one of the oddball maps? Or just see what the RNG produces.

Given the shrine issue, I'm kinda with Ghandi... but it's certainly do-able with Aoska and might be more of a challenge?

For a start location, some unforested hills (or gems ) would be great - likely it'll be the only way to boost production in the very early turns - have to chase religion before worker techs?