PYRAMIDS a must or no??

[Dirk Aurel]

Pyramids are a "nice to have",not just by militarily conquering them,since I seldom conduct wars at this early stage.If I don´t get them well too bad,but no big loss,the biggest loss I encountered was building Pyramids in my capital,someone beat me to it and since I had no new technology I had to settle for Barracks,losing 350+ something shields.Now this was annoying.
Ironically the AI usually beats me by 1-3 turns to them.In general your Civ will survive even without them,try to have them if you can,just try not to build them in the capital(if you aren´t absolutely sure they´ll make it). Usually and this works I start to build them in my second largest city,this city should be producing rather well,if I don´t get them I settle for Palace or for Great Library.

Must haves;

All are really to a certain point "must haves",I find myself building some just to culturally strengthen this or that border city.

>Sun Tzu,didn´t take this one serious at first,but since I often play on continent maps it really is very effective.What makes Sun Tzu superior to Pyramids is simply the defensive value,one´s conquered city can soon start to build effective defensive units, and most important the garisson is healed in one round.Would also place temples and walls here as wonders at this point!

>Sistine Chapel,not much too say about it.

>JS Bach´s,if I can.

>Magellan´s.This really isn´t a must have but have been using this ever since Civ2 so won´t change that.

~Great Library (or Pyramids)

Leonardo´s,pretty useful,not so much for offensive but for defensive units.

Usually go for Smith´s too,it does save loads of money.

If I have a city with a high commerce luxury or several gold resources,I let this one build Copernicus,followed by Isaac,and Seti.Wow

Colossus,cool

Great Lighthouse,very nice,have never got it though.

And ofcourse the Pyramids

The non > are ones I very much appreciate building or capturing.

Miss King Richard´s Crusade a lot btw.

Would have definitely been a must have,used to change it to not becoming obsolete

 

[Lt. 'Killer' M.]

yep, Dirk, that could have been written by me!

 

[eyrei]

In my opinion, no wonder is a must, except maybe the forbidden palace. I have won several games without having built a single great wonder. Sometimes, on higher levels, I am too busy fighting for land to even try for a wonder. I rate all wonders as nice to have, and some are obviously nicer than others, but I can win without any of them.

 

[Magnus]

Civ2's King Richard's Crusade has somewhat been replaced by the small wonder 'Iron Works' but that amazing wonder only shows up in maybe 5% of the games.

 

[Dirk Aurel]

Civ2's King Richard's Crusade has somewhat been replaced by the small wonder 'Iron Works' but that amazing wonder only shows up in maybe 5% of the games.

Have not once made it to build the Iron Works
I´ve heard they are great for building wonders,as for the 5%,I could build them a lot,lots of places on the map,sometimes even within in my borders but the squares shared by two seperate cities.
The reason I can´t be arsed to build it is usually the huge effort on restructering.If they are in my borders,I seldom even think about destroying two cities,18pop each...
If they are in another country I would build it,but usually the sources are so far away,already having built the FP,it is pretty senseless.Usually quit before game is over,am wanting to end a game for a change,so will certainly build the I-Works soon

 

[Lt. 'Killer' M.]

here`s a game, starting 4000 BC where it`s almost guaranteed you can build them. At least i tried different strats on this game and always was able to build Ironworks in a place where it really was a viable option!

 

[enlightendespot]

Pyramids are invaluble if you are playing on a standard or larger map, as the initial scramble for land is longer, and still going on when they are built (if your capital is of a decent size) Your cities make it to 3 much quicker, build the settlers much quicker, and allow you to expand faster than the computer and grab the best bits of land!

of course it depends how you prefer to play the game. i go for maximum territory, then stop and develop what i have when i have enough, or there's none left. As already mentioned, its pretty useless on arpegalio, especialy as the factor limiting your expansion is not being able to build enough ships, not settelers...

sun tzu's is another vital wonder, combined with leonardo's workshop it makes staying on top with your defensive units sooo much easier

well theres my 2¢

 

[Zachriel]

I have never been successful with Ancient Age wonders. If I attempt to build them, I often fail losing huge numbers of shields. I have been much more successful by delaying all wonders until the Middle Ages. By then, my Civilization is hopefully well-developed, my cities at maximum population, I'm also usually several techs ahead, so I can build the Religious wonders rather easily.

 

[Lt. 'Killer' M.]

Oh my God, allthose cobwebs on this thread!

 

[Mapache]

I have never even got them. Which means that you can win without.

 

[Windwalker]

Pyramids are nice to have, but are rarely worth building on the higher levels on cramped maps (i.e. if you leave no empty places). This is because you MUST stake out as much land as possible in the early going, unless you are planning a territory-acquiring war early on. Thus, building the pyramids (which usually takes 30-50 turns near the beginning) hampers your settler production way too much to be effective at higher levels. Another problem lies in the fact that your citizens are so unhappy on regent up (you only get 2 content citizens). If you don't have lots of luxuries, fast pop growth is useless early on.

Also, in order to beat the AI to the pyramids on higher levels (monarch and above), you have to start pretty early, which is when it hurts you the most to waste all that time by your capitol (or other high production city)...

Right now on monarch, I think the most important tech for me is the Great Library, esp. if I don't plan on "vassalizing" my neighbor (conquer'em and make'em give you techs...) This is the only way I can achieve tech parity without going completely bankrupt or checking what techs every civ has every turn to "tech broker".

Other essential wonders in most of my games:

Forbidden Palace
Sistine Chapel
JS Bach Cathedral (if not essential, VERY useful)


That's it. I can make do without every other wonder, but without the happiness wonders, the productivity and power of my civ will be significantly less (as many citizens will be forced to be entertainers). Without the forbidden palace, I would only have half the amount of core cities I could have...

Again, these three wonders are the main ones that affect productivity to a huge extent in the eras that matter. Hoover Dam is nice, but hydro plants can be built well before the Hoover Dam is finished in most of your core cities. Smith Trading Company is nice, but it comes late and is thus just a nice bonus. Sun Tzu is a great wonder for war-mongerers, though again, it's not a make-it or break-it wonder; just build barracks in your main producing cities, which should be cheap anyway. Collosus/Newton/Copernicus are nice, but they only affect one city additively, so there's no exponential super science city here... Leo's is great for a war-mongerer that attacks in different eras (and has notable benefit for peaceful types). But is it necessary? Nope.

To make a long story short, the wonders that have a real and decisive impact on my game are Great Library, Sistine, Bach's, and Forbidden Palace. The others range from useful but unneccesary to pure icing (i.e. shakespeare's...)

- Windwalker

 

[Bogatir]

The Aztecs laugh when we hear that others near us are building these wasteful monstrosities. While they dawdle at stacking their foolish bricks, we shall devote the same number of shields to equipping our powerful military and take these "Pyramids" from them whenever it suits us.

 

[Steve]

A close result so far. It's what I'd expect. And I do agree with the posts pointing out that in Civ3, the building of this wonder is conditional.

I build the Pyramids in 2 and 3 depending on my status, but I don't feel it's a must have. At higher diff. levels rapid growth can create serious problems.

 

[muppet]

I'm confused.

I find the use in granaries on Monarch to be very conditional -- dependent on the specific city, and my particular civ traits as well. Across the board granaries I find to be more a 'pain' than a benefit -- too much micromanaging to prevent disorder.

I know this is a silly idea, but it would be nice if you could build them, and then have a toggle to turn it off and on.

Anyways. How does a player even use the pyramids on Emperor and above? Like, how do you deal with the unhappiness? Besides, how can you possibly build them on Emperor or Diety? I mean other than be using a GL, which probably has more important uses waiting for it.

 

[Reichsmarshal]

The Colosslos is extremely easy to get, and so are the Hanging Gardens. A lot of the Ancient Wonders are better than the Middle Age or Industrial Age ones. The only tough ancient ones to get are the Pyramids and to a much less extent the Great Library. Actually the later wonders are harder to get.

 

[Ordep]

1. If I thought the pyramids were a must-have wonder I would be restarting constantly. As it is, I don't even try to build the ancient wonders in my capitol because I hate the production waste if you miss them by a few turns (I tend to play Monarch difficulty). I'll sometimes shoot for one in my best non-capitol because I can always switch to 'build palace' and while I wait for a tech advance.

2. The big bonus of having a granary, IMHO, comes during the expansion period of the game, when you want to mass produce cities. By the time the Pyramids are built, this period is pretty much over, and the advantage of having granaries is only marginal.

3. This post reminded me that in Civ 1 the pyramids allowed you to choose any government you wanted without going through anarchy. Now there's a must have wonder. . .The comunist state of Rome at 2000 BC.

 

[levasseur227]

ORDEP:

I used to rush to the pyramids as well. I never really understood how a big tomb would give you all the governmnents, but giving you a granary... (are they actually putting MEAT in that tomb???)

Anyhow, off topic, but it was nice to have a democracy in the BCs.

 

[royfurr]

Originally posted by Steve
A close result so far. It's what I'd expect. And I do agree with the posts pointing out that in Civ3, the building of this wonder is conditional.

I build the Pyramids in 2 and 3 depending on my status, but I don't feel it's a must have. At higher diff. levels rapid growth can create serious problems.

So Steve, whats a Marylander like you doing quoting ole' Stonewall?

I think the reason Lincoln suspended heabus corpus was to help prevent the Md. legistrature (he arrested them all) from meeting to succeed, if I remember correctly. So maybe some Marylanders are more Southern then Northern. You from the N or the S originally? I grew up in Md. but was the Dam Yankee to all my relatives in NC. (BTW, there are two "Furr"'s inscribed on the Southern Memorial down near Pt. Lookout.)

Jackson was 100% correct, of course.

OT- I don't think Pyramids is a must have. Love to take it away from someone, hurts when they don't have ANY graneries at all. But I've never built it in III, did so only rarely in II.

 

[Special_O]

I never found any of them to be must have, though Hoover Dam is swell...

 

[Shabbaman]

Pro: It spares a lot of time when you don't have to build ALL THOSE granaries.

Con: It takes a long time to build; the city where the pyramids are built will be underdeveloped and doesn't produce any units. So when you're waging a war...

I.O.W. it depends on whether you're at war or not. Also, when you're on a small continent, I think it's certainly not worth the shields.