[LP] Qin The Unifier Barb Exploit?

[MangoCheeseCakey]

The ability seems to work for levied city state units as well, so you don't even have to expend your own units. Levying a CS early and sending the 5 warriors for barb troops might work for Uni Qin?

 

[Uberfrog]

I just hope the developers put even half as much effort into improving the AI for Civ 7 as they've lately put into these absurd gimmicks such as zombies, vampires, secret societies, "heroes," and all the other gimmicky garbage.

Half as much effort as they put into these notoriously janky game modes would be very little effort indeed!

 

[fy00sh]

The ability seems to work for levied city state units as well, so you don't even have to expend your own units. Levying a CS early and sending the 5 warriors for barb troops might work for Uni Qin?

oh now THATS powerful. qin might be the single best leader at getting a land army over to the other side of the world, no? by simply having a galley find a neglected CS he could suzerain, levy, convert, upgrade within CS borders, then boom, full military. uniqin seems very fun ^_^

 

[tedhebert]

I understand when players complain about evident bugs end exploits in a standard game…but honestly I don’t get how much flak is being sent in fxs’s way over an exploit that’s only for ONE civ leader that has to be played in a mode that no one cares about anyways (btw I’m sure they have stats on how many people use the zombie mode, and I’m also sure that it’s close to nil)…

It’s ok to note the fact and relay the information, but really pouring hate on fxs for THIS ? just don’t play zombie with Qin if you’re offended, THAT’s easy enough to do, no ?

Anyways, just my opinion… seems to me we already have many valid reason to complain over the state of the game, this just doesn’t seem like one of them !

 

[Tech Osen]

I understand when players complain about evident bugs end exploits in a standard game…but honestly I don’t get how much flak is being sent in fxs’s way over an exploit that’s only for ONE civ leader that has to be played in a mode that no one cares about anyways (btw I’m sure they have stats on how many people use the zombie mode, and I’m also sure that it’s close to nil)…

It’s ok to note the fact and relay the information, but really pouring hate on fxs for THIS ? just don’t play zombie with Qin if you’re offended, THAT’s easy enough to do, no ?

Anyways, just my opinion… seems to me we already have many valid reason to complain over the state of the game, this just doesn’t seem like one of them !

Agreed, it's not like Civ is a competitive multiplayer e-sport.

 

[InsidiousMage]

Agreed, it's not like Civ is a competitive multiplayer e-sport.

Also, I believe that people who do play competitively in Civ use modded civs to have a more consistent power level.

 

[pokiehl]

The real exploit is that Hagia Sophia gives +1 charge to Unifier Qin’s melee units. It’s easily fixed under the hood, though.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

The real exploit is that Hagia Sophia gives +1 charge to Unifier Qin’s melee units. It’s easily fixed under the hood, though.

Wait, what?

Now that is nuts.

 

[fy00sh]

The real exploit is that Hagia Sophia gives +1 charge to Unifier Qin’s melee units. It’s easily fixed under the hood, though.

oh wow i never even build hagia sophia so i had to look it up... so im guessing they just gave uniqin's melee units a single charge of the apostle conversion ability then, or something close enough to that.
honestly i love this, it actually gives me a mechanical reason to wanna build hagia sophia in a game since usually even if im going to spread a religion i just do it with some debater apostles and gurus going around in religious combat. very very cool, and i dont mind if its super powerful on uniqin, either im playing him and i wanna be OP, or hes the AI and the thought of him getting hagia sophia first provides some tension ^_^

 

[Uberfrog]

The real exploit is that Hagia Sophia gives +1 charge to Unifier Qin’s melee units. It’s easily fixed under the hood, though.

That’s fun to know.

Zombie mode is obviously an exception, but in a normal game I don’t really see this being too exploitable. Barbarian conversions are currently possible with Boudicca and Apostles, but it’s very situational. There simply aren’t that many big barbarian armies later in the game, unless you get creative with Recruit Partisans.

 

[TheMarshmallowBear]

I've never been bankrupt. What actually happens? Do units disappear or do they turn into barbarians? Is there a set limit of units lost per turn?

And isn't there a delay? Couldn't you just ignore the fact that you're bankrupt and just keep converting them anyway?

The exponential rate at which you're able to convert units can probably compensare for the penalties of bankruptcy, no? (Like I said, I'm not too sure how bankruptcy actually works).


Just turn him off for Zombie games?

Units turning into Barbarians actually would have been a better idea than just disbanding them, puts more effort into "DO NOT DO THIS".

Lack of Money (0 while generting negative per turn) gives you a hefty Amenity penalty, sometimes to a point where it causes you to go into severe unhappiness that causes Rebels to spawn.

Perioditically, you'll start losing your army one by one to make up for the loss.

 

[blackbutterfly]

I've never been bankrupt. What actually happens? Do units disappear or do they turn into barbarians? Is there a set limit of units lost per turn?

You just lose a ton of amnesties.
TBH I usually save scum when I've gone bankrupt, cos the notification comes like 1 turn before 🙄

And isn't there a delay? Couldn't you just ignore the fact that you're bankrupt and just keep converting them anyway?

Not in Civ VI. In HUMANKIND yes.

The exponential rate at which you're able to convert units can probably compensare for the penalties of bankruptcy, no? (Like I said, I'm not too sure how bankruptcy actually works).
Just turn him off for Zombie games?

Zombies cost 1 GPT.
https://civilization.fandom.com/wiki/Zombie_(Civ6)

Eventually the zombie horde will cost you.

Unifier Qin is just as OP in Barbarian Clans mode.

 

[Ovidious]

Playing with zombie mode, if I'm lucky the city state that lets you choose your prophet's ability is in the game (Laventa? I forget which one). I pick convert barb's. then I park the prophet until I'm about to get overrun by zombies, then I pop the prophet into the middle of a zombie cluster. Instant zombie army. If I'm lucky, my prophet will have extra charges to use. Later in the game I combine zombies into armies, at least that way I can protect my cities. By that point all of the AI's are usually down to just a capital city surrounded by zombies. I slip a prophet into the zombies next to the ai city, pop them into my soldiers, take ai city in one turn as the zombies will have already took out the walls. Yeah I don't do zombie mode too often, mid to late game zombies are brutal.

 

[blackbutterfly]

Playing with zombie mode, if I'm lucky the city state that lets you choose your prophet's ability is in the game (Laventa? I forget which one). I pick convert barb's. then I park the prophet until I'm about to get overrun by zombies, then I pop the prophet into the middle of a zombie cluster. Instant zombie army. If I'm lucky, my prophet will have extra charges to use. Later in the game I combine zombies into armies, at least that way I can protect my cities. By that point all of the AI's are usually down to just a capital city surrounded by zombies. I slip a prophet into the zombies next to the ai city, pop them into my soldiers, take ai city in one turn as the zombies will have already took out the walls.

Yeah, with Unifier Qin you bypass all of that.
You can own Zombies on turn 1 (if they turn up on your doorstep that early).
Especially on marathon you are fast outpacing anyone else, if you use your ability right. Think Fibonacci 😉

This is on Snowflake and I moved my settler to the centre. The ONE warrior spawned this entire army. (I didn't build a single unit and as you can see I'm haemorrhaging gold!).

Yeah I don't do zombie mode too often, mid to late game zombies are brutal.

It's been nerfed (buffed?) with the China pack.

Mutation strength of Zombies scale much slower now, even on Standard speed.

 

[blackbutterfly]

Just don’t play zombie with Qin if you’re offended, THAT’s easy enough to do, no ?

Even not using Zombies mode (or Clans) you can still amass a huge army with just ONE unit.

Your starting warrior!

Anyway, to provide inspiration for trying out Zombies mode as Unifier Qin, here is my Great Wall of Zombies. Unifier Qin has successfully united the 6 arms of snowflake and quelled the zombie apocalypse to save humanity. 😄

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

The real exploit is that Hagia Sophia gives +1 charge to Unifier Qin’s melee units. It’s easily fixed under the hood, though.

I'm assuming the game just sees them as religious units because they have the same ability as the barbarian conversion promotion for Apostles. I now wonder if Hagia Sophia would give Boudicca an extra charge as well?

 

[pokiehl]

I'm assuming the game just sees them as religious units because they have the same ability as the barbarian conversion promotion for Apostles. I now wonder if Hagia Sophia would give Boudicca an extra charge as well?

So converting Barbarians is technically a “spread” action. Hagia Sophia grants “+1 Spread” - same basic effect as the Mosque.

The difference between the two is the Mosque’s effect has a requirement attached to it, limiting the effect to religious units. Hagia Sophia’s effect doesn’t have any requirements attached to it for whatever reason (maybe they just forgot). Adding a requirement would fix it, which is why I said it’d be a simple enough fix.

Interesting thought about Boudicca. My guess is it does indeed give her +1 action but I’m not inclined to test it.

 

[MangoCheeseCakey]

Doubt that the Hagia Sofia bonus applies to Boudicca, since she does not have conversion charges. Her ability is from the "retire GP" charge, which the Hagia Sofia does not boost.
But as Uni Qin you can keep Boudicca as a barb radar and send your melee units to convert them

 

[blackbutterfly]

That’s fun to know.

Zombie mode is obviously an exception, but in a normal game I don’t really see this being too exploitable.

The exploit is you can amass a huge army with just ONE unit.
Your starting Warrior.

@boesthius, PotatoMcWhiskey and JumboPixel have all rushed to produce YouTubes of Yongle breaking the game but in fact it is Qin the Unifier that breaks the game 😏

Albeit you need to be a little crafty with your convert barbs action, especially at the start of the game.
But if you do it right, you can snowball rapidly, esp. on marathon.



Qin: "Ok buddy, you can go back to your camp and tell them where my cap is"
(laughing)

Qin: "I'm cool! I'm gonna chillax here until barbs surround my city. Then I convert them with my charm and good looks" 😄

 

[AntSou]

The exploit is you can amass a huge army with just ONE unit.
Your starting Warrior.

I mean, that is the point of the ability. It's not an exploit if it's intentional.