[LP] Qin The Unifier Barb Exploit?

[blackbutterfly]

Like I had a good start to a new Qin game. I got lucky with a barb camp spawn near me that A. scouted me and so started to pop a unit a turn and B. decided to run Eagle Warriors. Even better is having Akkad nearby so that I can avoid walls...

Yes! Unifier Qin + Akkad = unstoppable.

But I'm not sure if the Akkad trait works on Zombies.
I tried it in a game but IDK if they were taking advantage of Akkad or not.

So I'm DOMINATING the clans + zombies snowflake game:

(I will win this game in 20+ turns when my alliances end. I can take the caps in a few turns after. This is marathon. Deity. Dramatic Ages).

 

[blackbutterfly]

This is a good example of barb conversion:

(Still not 100% ideal. Optimally you can convert 6 other melee barbs).

 

[Noble Zarkon]

This is fun lol

 

[Abaxial]

Qin plus zombies is fun - makes the zombie mode worth while, which it wasn't before. But I notice a bug. Sometimes when a zombie converts zombies, the original one remains in play.

 

[blackbutterfly]

Qin plus zombies is fun - makes the zombie mode worth while, which it wasn't before.

Yeah, exactly! 😄

👍

Qin takes the stress out of playing Zombies mode.

In fact Unifier Qin is so OP/exploitable with zombies.
I've updated my TSL maps/mod UN Earth Maps and am play testing the largest (playable) of those maps TSL Old World and Qin (after conquering Yongle BTW) has snowballed into such a huge zombie horde it's painfully slow to move them each turn:

(Check out military strength).

Here Europe has slipped into Dark Ages (free cities - Dramatic Ages mode on) while the East is developing.
Tokugawa and Indonesia are prospering and have kept zombies at bay. (Tokugawa is pretty awesome actually).

China under Qin has marched an army of zombies to liberate Europe! 😁

BTW I've discovered Unifier Qin is particularly good at Apocalypse mode too - being able to sacrifice excess/old units for the competition.

(Oh, if anyone wants this map seed let me know, I will fish it out and post it).

 

[reddishrecue]

Qin plus zombies is fun - makes the zombie mode worth while, which it wasn't before. But I notice a bug. Sometimes when a zombie converts zombies, the original one remains in play.

Really? How so? :\ I've never tried zombies before.

 

[blackbutterfly]

Really? How so? :\ I've never tried zombies before.

Check out @boesthius YouTube of Qin no settle Dom challenge

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1620137954718134273

 

[Roblord]

I just want to know if this ability is useful enough in a regular game to be worthwhile. It's pretty obvious that this was going to be absurd in Zombie mode.

 

[blackbutterfly]

I just want to know if this ability is useful enough in a regular game to be worthwhile. It's pretty obvious that this was going to be absurd in Zombie mode.

Unifier Qin in regular game (no clans or zombies) is still exploitable.
Just allow barbs to spawn. (So don't rush to kill any scouts!).

 

[Finvola]

I recently played a regular Qin game. I used the conversion about 3 times in the early game because I had a surprise war from Shaka and I needed a few extra units to defend. I think I ended up with a handful of spearmen, a couple warriors and even a regular horse that I was able to upgrade (that surprised me, I thought barb horses couldn't be, but this one became a helicopter later on, haha). Then I counter attacked and wiped him out. I didn't have a lot of barb camps in that game as I had a lot of neighbors and several CS nearby so barb camps usually got cleared pretty quickly. I did build the Hagia Sophia and used the barbarian conversion but that was mostly as a test to see if it worked like people said it did. Apart from the Shaka early war, I didn't see much combat the rest of the game. I played peacefully and got a science win. So in that particular game I didn't find the ability to be all that incredible. I prefer original Qin.

 

[Noble Zarkon]

a regular horse that I was able to upgrade (that surprised me, I thought barb horses couldn't be, but this one became a helicopter later on, haha

Initally you get a special Barb Horse Archer that is weak and can't upgrade, later on it's a normal one.

 

[blackbutterfly]

I prefer original Qin.

Unifier Qin is not for everybody.
I know many Civ-ers like to play peaceful building games.

However, so keen am I to play Unifier Qin vs. other China leaders I ported Firaxis' legendary map maker Bob Thomas's excellent map of China from Civ V's Scrambled Nations map pack 👉
https://forums.civfanatics.com/resources/scrambled-china-rf-gs-nfp-lp.30376/

Hot off the oven! 😁

 

[Finvola]

Well I am a domination player a lot of times, but sometimes I just want to play a nice relaxing culture game. Qin without his wonder building ability feels strange to me.

 

[blackbutterfly]

Well I am a domination player a lot of times, but sometimes I just want to play a nice relaxing culture game. Qin without his wonder building ability feels strange to me.

I think it's historical.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1620467079609458688

 

[blackbutterfly]

Exploit and OP aren't the same thing. So there's grounds to consider it an exploit in the Zombie mode, but otherwise it's just OP.

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[Zaarin]

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Someone did this a few years ago with Kupe so I wouldn't read too much into it.

 

[blackbutterfly]

Someone did this a few years ago with Kupe so I wouldn't read too much into it.

That was Spiff.

The way @boesthius and PotatoMcWhiskey have named this challenge, it sounds the same, but actually it's a different challenge.
This "No settle" challenge allows you to have cities (just not your own). i.e. you can capture cities.

Spiff's Kupe run was not having any cities AT ALL.

And it was a diplo win.

This "No settle" Qin challenge is domination.

 

[Kotofei]

I played a game this way, on Epic speed. Infinite zombies sounds fun, until you have to move them all one at a time. And BTW they cost gold to maintain. Actually winning a game this way ends up being a grind.

 

[blackbutterfly]

I played a game this way, on Epic speed. Infinite zombies sounds fun, until you have to move them all one at a time. And BTW they cost gold to maintain. Actually winning a game this way ends up being a grind.

That's if you go any victory other than dom.

With Unifier Qin use your zombie horde for a very early domination.

If you have too many zombies (which is easy with Qin) set them free...soz explore.
Yes, with 3 viz they make great explorers.

Really even though scouts have more movement (3) they die pretty quickly in zombie mode (unless you turn off auto explore).

 

[blackbutterfly]

I guess I'd be more curious to see what the AI does with it than what I would do with it!

Sorry to disappoint but I just started a game as Vietnam vs. Qin.
(Vietnam being the strongest in Zombies + Apocalypse modes prior to Qin).

I played on Europe and Qin was sort of the closest AI.
And I defeated him on Deity, Marathon.

But it was tough!
It took 3 wars to finish him off. (Plus help of a dark age - yes, Dramatic Ages + Clans too).
And Classical start. So Qin did not have starting melee units (they are spearmen on classical starts).

Steps:
1. You have to kill all barb clans/camps close to Qin.
(That will piss him off anyways).
2. Target his melee units first.
3. Wars of atrophy. (i.e. pillage first. Those Great Walls in Zombie mode exert ZoC so are a bastard to pillage. Horses > Iron).

Qin AI does a pretty good job of building great walls.

But it seems to be really poor at taking advantage of his barb conversion trait.
Maybe he's better with an ancient start?