This challenge is quite special. Here it is not about winning the game - all of us will be able to do that. Instead we play directly against the results of other players. How many of you will finish the game before turn 200? If you are trying to get under 200 turns for the first time, this is definitely the map to do it! The secondary target is to beat my mediocre t233 win.
We play as Spain on a Standard sized Fractal map with Standard speed. All VCs are turned on but we are going for a Science win.
If you don´t enjoy this one... well, then I think you need a break from the game!!
Yes, others are indeed encouraged to contribute maps. Make a new thread and choose a civ that has not yet been presented. Ottomans, Sweden, Assyria, Persia, America, Songhai, Arabia and Spain can´t be chosen.
Thought I had it, but realized at the end I was short on science. Limped home to a T216 Launch. Shout out to the after-thought ISS project to shave one turn off the win.
T216 Science Victory (Part 1)
T0-13 Detailed Scouting
Spoiler:
So many plans and change-in-plans early. SIP T0 and find Uluru T1 (of course - good choice of direction with the warrior). Guaranteed first settle as soon as I hit Pop 2 to buy the settler. One turn later after continuing NE, I see cotton and silk, so four unique lux already. Sucks that Uluru can't help with cargos but intend to settle two coastal expansions somewhere for the classic 4-City Tradition. I have good experience relying heavily on Research Agreements (using gpt gifts to get the initial friendship. Open Commerce before heading back late for mercantilism for the Freedom SV. Reminder - this is still T2. Scout east with warrior, northwest with first scout, and using second scout north to help escort Uluru settler. Early culture ruin to open Tradition and then a perfectly timed ruin to hit Pop 3 on T8. Buy settler and start building another immediately.
T10 - Find the top half of the Great Barrier Reef. New plan: buy three settlers rather than just one (wastes two turns of settler production) for Uluru (already in route), GBR, and the desert hills south of Ragusa (rush for Petra, maybe?).
T11 - The scout providing vision for Uluru settler finds salt, so perhaps it's a 5-City Tradition game?
T12 - Find the 2nd GBR tile. My planned settle can't reach both (I thought the 2nd tile would be SE rather than SW). Barcelona founded (1-tile NW of Uluru).
Turn 13
* Better GBR settle on west side of bay on gold (mountain, 2nd ring both GBR tiles)
* Notice silver which I had already found (sixth unique lux)
* Find wine in third ring of revised GBR settle (seventh unique)
* Sigh in lament that I don't know how to play Liberty.
* Final plan is a 7-Lux, 5-City Tradition with Uluru, salt, GBR, and a filler on north side of bay (GBR too far from others - plus, can share one GBR tile).
* Three expansion observatories, two useful coastal cities to help capital, and of course, three excellent natural wonder tiles.
* Give up on desert wasteland south of Ragusa - was a bad idea anyway (would require Petra or too many cargos)
* Total 3-Ring Luxuries: 6 gold, 3 cotton, 2 silk, 2 marble, 1 salt, 1 silver, 1 wine.
* Not settling the island copper (5th ring in capital though) or the tundra furs.
* Oh, by the way, first pantheon (One With Nature) for +20 faith/turn on T13.
At this point, I call the first session and review autosaves to take notes and ponder if I should put the rest of this game on YouTube. (Answer - of course not! Can't miss the first 13 turns - those are the most important.) Still planning on the Freedom Space Victory fueled by research agreements and mercantilism. Porcelain Tower is high priority, and if reasonably timed, a fast Rationalism finisher. Hopefully hold to only one filler, but then speed through Rationalism - get Sistine Chapel if possible.
T14-57 Religion, City States, and Strategy Shift?
Spoiler:
* T18 Seville on river with salt in 2nd ring - barb archer on the hill E and a barb axe in the camp across the river to the NW. Had to use the scout as bait for the archer to stand still and shoot rather than move. (Scout survived!)
* T21 Cordoba on the GBR observatory gold
* T23 Great Prophet! Should self-spread easily, so want a quick enhancer. Take Tithe (of course) and Religious Community. Plan on Pagodas (and stronger spread) for enhancer.
* T30 Toledo - mountain, off-river, on sheep. Wasted a turn heading on-river, but it was within three tiles of Seville (so, wasted two turns to go NW and back SE).
Need workers. Need granaries. Need cargos and maybe triremes to defend. Also need units for vision - big open space between Madrid, Barcelona, and Seville. No AIs in sight to help with barbs. Scouting west, I avoid the camp threatening Cordoba and find three city states clogging the mountain pass separating me from Caeser. Two of those are cultural CS, so looks like potential quests if I can get the spear over to handle it (will take some time, but it's not a quest, yet). Soon enough (T33), it's a quest for Kiev. The next turn, Prague has a quest to - Great Musician? Already? Does this mean an AI already has Acoustics? Where's my spy? (By T37, all three have quest for that camp.)
Also on T34 - enhance (Pagodas & Religious Texts). First Pagoda purchase on T43 and have all five by T64.
Continuing to scout (it upgraded to an archer on T24) beyond the city states and mountain pass leads to Milan - another cultural CS. Milan happens to have a quest for the barb camp right by it (axe and worker - presumably Milan's). Easy kill for a scout-archer firing over the hill. To make it even easier, Milan send out another worker, and the barb axe captures it while leaving the camp unguarded. Move in and free the worker for instant CS ally. Axe tries to flee with its new slave, but it's hilly terrain and no match for Super Scout! Luckily, Caeser wasn't waiting on the other side for the steal. Keep that one and swim it across the bay (9th worker). Meanwhile back home, the spear and a normal archer from Seville make it to the camp triple quest. No workers in it, but easy kill. Quests complete (except the musician).
T48 - one cultural CS ally, two cultural CS friends, and a mercantile CS friend. Also, I take Tradition Landed Elite on T48. Was a pretty good turn! Seems like multiple fillers though, so maybe I'll go for Exploration hammers. Oracle is starting to sound pretty good! So, on T57, I take Aristocracy before Monarchy to help with Oracle and National College (happiness and gold are already excellent anyway). However, I can't start Oracle yet because it would force a classical era filler. Need to plan Medieval entry carefully ...
... to be continued. (Probably with one more over-detailed post before finishing with a more normal summary.)
In addition to the medieval thoughts previously mentioned on T57, I also need to focus on my National College. I made a mistake with Seville's build queue - worker, archer, cargo ship? Yes, I can move the cargo to the primary coastal cities, so Seville doesn't need Granary to feed Madrid (nowhere near in range anyway), but this basically bricked the city. It was at Pop 3 with +0 excess food for a loooong time. True, was unhappy for about half of it when I had the plan, but when I got the luxes up, mercantile CS friend, and cultural CS ally, happiness was not a problem. But, Seville was still there working on the Cargo with Pop 3. So, I needed to buy a library for Seville. The gold wasn't a problem, but that's expensive, not a favorable gold/hammer exchange rate, and could have been better spent elsewhere such as the cultural CS friends if Caesar wasn't already super pissed about the CS competition (bright red diplo modifier). Monty also was upset, but not as much (dull red). So, for diplomatic purposes, I gift Caeser 10 gpt (bright green diplo!) I'm hoping for future research agreements, but I'm also hoping he'll dislike Monty more than me.
T58 - meet Elizabeth with my trireme. Thought it was supposed to defend my cargos? Oh well - scouting is good too. It's gone off to see the world, and there's no coming back! (Actually, it does come back eventually as a look out for an English naval invasion).
Anyway, trying to plan for Medieval entry. It's turn 62, and Metal Casting seems like the appropriate choice. My science is already good due to Great Barrier Reef tiles - I'm in 6th but only 4% behind tech leader. I think it's a good idea to help get infrastructure ready to build universities. Wait, build universities? Build?? Why not buy them? Not with gold like that stupid library but instead, buy with faith. Sure, it's something I've never really done before, but if the goal is to accomplish something I've never done, why not try something different? I like it! Let's go for Piety!! With 3 cultural city state allies (think they were all allies by this point - friends at least) to help power through the policies, this seems like a plan. The Oracle is sounding really good now, and Cordoba already has a lighthouse (and GWB) ...
So, I get the fifth and final library on T66 (Madrid of all places) and start on a 10-turn NC build. Finish Tradition on T67. Start building a caravan (eww) on T71 in Barcelona to rescue Seville. On T75, I find out Monty won't offer 7 gpt for a lux. He has mild land covet issues, so I try to appease him with gifts (10 gpt - told you gold was not an issue. At least, not yet.) NC finished on T75 - guess I grew and got extra production at some point. Or maybe it was a golden age? T75 also spawns a Prophet to plant.
And then T77 arrives. Monty will now give 7 gpt for a lux. He also wants to war poor William of Orange, but Caeser has the world's biggest army. Caeser doesn't particularly like me, and he's closer to me. Mr. Montezuma, would you be so kind as to take these two luxuries with you to keep your army happy as they attack the vile emperor known as Augustus Caesar? Thank you very much.
Now to the highlight of Turn 77 - Oracle complete in Cordoba. Moment of truth. I could still fall back to the familiar patronage route either an extra (albeit useful) filler for Commerce gold or as planned deeper filler (CS gold gift power). Pretty sure my mind was already made up when I started the Oracle, but it's official now. PIETY!!! Sheesh, I need three more policies QUICKLY. Doesn't seem like anyone has a relevant religion and no one has opened Piety (or at least not progressed beyond the opener), so it's looking alright. Luckily, I have another policy coming in two turns, so just need two more after that (for now). That also happens to be the same turn I enter Medieval.
Some T79 Statistics:
* 42 Total Pop - capital is 10 which seems low. Barcelona and Toledo are 8. Seville and its building queue mistake is 7. Cordova is 9. There were some moments when expansions were bigger than Madrid.
* Last in Soldiers demographic - as to be expected
* Fourth in Literacy (3% behind The Netherlands)
* Third in Population
* First in everything else (land, food, hammers, gold, happiness)
I'm also first in score at this point, I think. That's the (or at least a) power of good religion.
Trireme scouting finds Pedro (thanks for taking my spare gold lux!) and Pachacuti (most religious cities, but close - 9 to 8). Hit Civil Service on T87 - Madrid up 3 pop and others all up 1 since entering Medieval 8 turns ago. Three workshops done, but Seville's is still 3 turns away and Barcelona's is still 6 turns away. Then a big scare on T88: Viva la France!! Not for long though based on the demographics. Checking the map and messages after the game, Napoleon didn't get a second city (Orleans) until T78. Pedro forward settled him with the free settler, but there were no declarations of war. Maybe the free deity settler was captured by barbarians?
The big scare? Napolean founded a religion over the end turn (between T87-88). He went Piety of course - guess that's why he's last in all the demographics (except Soldiers where I still rule 8th place). End Turn 88 and hope. Napoleon adds a reformation to Confucianism. Sacred Sites. Whew. (Plus, what an odd choice for such a small empire. Well played, Napoleon!). Elizabeth founds a religion later (T96) via Hagia Sophia, but she's no threat for a reformation.
Continuing, T91 brings another prophet to plant and another Piety policy - one more for the reformation. Research Education on Turn 96, but I'm still 7 turns from Jesuit Education (Piety inexperience showing). Checking build times, I decide to hard-build universities in Madrid, Seville, and Toledo. Jesuit in Barcelona (rather than an 11-turn build) and Cordoba (working an Chichen Itza, and it still has 8 turns). I don't feel rushed for Sistine Chapel, so the tech plan is Compass for the trade route, Guilds for the Artists, and then maybe enter Renaissance via Astronomy for the observatories? I lose Chichen Itza to Pedro on T98 (felt like a stretch), but might as well Jesuit for Cordoba anyway.
Turn 100 status: 63 pop (M17 / B11 / S11 / C12 / T12) - 1st in food, hammers, and gold - second in pop, land and tech (1% difference). Turn 102 brings the reformation Piety policy. Immediate Jesuit universities in Barcelona and Cordoba. Working all scientist slots already (probably too early in a couple of the expansions, but oh well). Monty enters the Renaissance on T105 via Gunpowder. I'm second on T107 via Astronomy.
T107-139 Renaissance - Wonders and Mistakes
Spoiler:
At this point, I want three Renaissance wonders: Sistine Chapel (need loads of social policies), Leaning Tower (need loads of great scientists), and Porcelain Tower (potential for an extra great scientist). Preferably, I want Porcelain in the Oracle city (Cordoba), because the extra GS Points might help push out an extra GS (+2 from Porcelain and +1 from Oracle is effectively an extra slot). The three coastal cities (Seville doesn't count) have the best production. Sistine is first (highest priority in my mind), and Madrid still needs important buildings: National Epic (in progress - 2 turns), temple, market, and colosseum. Plus, important buildings but I don't have the tech yet: Artist's Guild, Musician's Guild, and bank. Useful but lower priority buildings include a mint, forge, stable, and maybe a harbor for future railroad connections. I guess I already had an amphitheater because I placed reasonable priority on it earlier thinking each culture point was important for this strategy. In fact, I already have an amphitheater everywhere except Seville (in progress - 5 turns). So, add an opera house and the Hermitage to the future backlog list.
In other words, Madrid had a lot to do, so Sistine in Toledo first to give Madrid some more time. Quick diplomacy modifier check before continuing. Bright red CS compete for Caeser and Elizabeth. Dull red covet for Monty. Bright green trade for Monty. Dull green trade for Caeser. Time for some more gifts: 9 gold/turn each for Caeser and Elizabeth. Let's go!
Manilla meets us over the end turn (T110-111), and that's the 16th CS. Checking the list, this game has ZERO religious city states. Maybe that's why AI religion in this game sucks (that, and no faith-focused AIs). There are four cultural CS. I'm already allies with three (the initial three I met). Friends with the fourth (and my spy is there).
T113 brings the first GS spawn (Cordoba - Oracle City). Another Prophet to plant on T114. That's the third planted Prophet, and it cost 1200 faith. Open Rationalism on T116. World Congress on T123 - I'm host and propose World's Fair. I must win that to maximize Great Writer culture.
T124 - First offer for a Declaration of Friendship. I knew we'd be besties Pedro!. Here, take this 250 gold. How about a research agreement? An extra 3 gold per turn, too? Perfect! (Pedro couldn't afford the RA, so might as well pay for both sides and get the bright green diplomatic modifier in the process.) William offers declaration of friendship the next turn, but I instinctively declined it to avoid upsetting Monty. That was a mistake - Monty was absolutely no threat to me (despite the biggest army). Plus, this is a speed run - need as many RAs as possible! Plus, William was probably second in tech (used to be first, at least).
Second GS spawn on T126 (first from Madrid). Next turn, Sistine completed in Toledo. I'm still the only one with Acoustics, so that wasn't challenged. Leaning Tower is challenged though, and it's still 5 turns away in Madrid. Finally open Secularism on T127, and that bumps science up to 395/turn. Also have 107 culture/turn, but I still need 15 turns for the next policy. Leaning Tower finished on T132, and I take a GS, of course (3rd total). Yet another Prophet spawn on T135, and that one hurt (1700 faith). In total, I generated 6 prophets even after faith purchasing 5 Pagodas and 2 Universities. Four turns later (T139) - Industrial via Scientific Theory. Another exemplary example of faith management inexperience.
Stats check:
* 94 pop
* 425 science/turn
* 1735 gold with +90 gold/turn
* 174 culture/turn
* 95 faith/turn
The goal is sub T190 SV, so let's try to plan for a mid 190's launch. By that time, I expect to have about 5900 total faith. With the 20% Piety discount, each research lab costs 480 faith, so it would cost 2400 to buy all five. That leaves 3500 which just happens to be enough for either (1GE + 2GS) or (2GE + 1GS) depending on if I can hard build Hubble. (If I can't build Hubble, it's better to purchase the second engineer since Hubble gives two GS.) Unfortunately, that last Prophet spawn cost me 4 schools which even without timing the Industrial entry properly, I should have minimized the loss by purchasing missionaries. An inquisitor could be useful in other games, but Pachacuti doesn't seem to be actively spreading their religion. (Same for the other AIs and their irrelevant religions.)
So, the plan is to hit research labs as quickly as I can to Jesuit labs and start hard research to absolutely maximize GS bulbs. I already have 3 GS with another coming via Porcelain. There's no reason why I wouldn't be able to hard generate one more GS is each city, and it's it might be feasible for Madrid and/or Cordova could spawn a third. After that, we can hope for two more from faith purchases and two more from Hubble. The worst-case scenario is 12 GS bulbs (7 spawn, 1 Leaning, 1 Porcelain, 2 Hubble, 1 faith). Add three to that total for 15 GS bulbs in the best-case scenario (9 spawn, 1 Leaning, 1 Porcelain, 2 Hubble, 2 faith).
Social Policies: Get to Free Thought ASAP, but I absolutely MUST have the 20% Piety faith purchase discount in time for labs.
Do I have a shot at sub-200? (I thought I did at the time.)
T139-167 Post-Industrial Play
Spoiler:
T139 - can't Jesuit any schools, so start building them everywhere. Will have to pause Porcelain in Oracle City (Cordoba). No one is a threat to steal it right now, but the combined school + Porcelain build time looks like 17 turns. A lot can happen in 17 turns (including the World's Fair - vote in 14 turns). T141 brings Humanism, and on T148, I convert a food cargo to production since 30 turns seems too long at this point. No more food to Toledo - production to Madrid instead. I Oxford into Radio on T149 because I wanted Freedom's Great Person generation bonus ASAP plus Civil Society can provide a bit more growth before the end game.
Turn 150 brings a lot:
* Freedom Ideology (Avant Garde and Civil Society)
* Third Great Writer spawn - these will be MASSIVE after winning the World's Fair
* Seville's Great Scientist spawn. We're up to four now (Oracle City, Madrid, Leaning Tower, Seville).
* World Congress advances to next era. I'm about to vote myself (I have the most votes), but then I reconsider ...
An English naval assault is the only thing that can cause me to lose this game, and that's completely within her nature. Elizabeth already hates me for City State competition, so why not try to appease her? Who knows, this might even lead to a Declaration of Friendship. RAs are probably pointless by now, but being able to trade for gold is certainly useful. Plus, I'll still get to propose a resolution (Natural Wonders).
T151 - Free Thought. I think I'll still get the Piety discount policy in time, but I'll burn a GW prematurely if I need to. One of the two caravans (one was bad enough, why the hell did I build a second one?) ends on T152. I can't really afford the production to convert to a cargo, and as I write that sentence, I realize I absolutely could have afforded to gold purchase one. Whoops! Caravan hammers to Madrid. (It was food to Barcelona.)
T154 - Porcelain Tower! Forgot about that. I know the World's Fair was delayed due to the Congress upgrade, but I still thought World's Fair would arrive first. We're up to 5 GS now but getting the extras from Madrid or Oracle/Porcelain City aren't looking good since neither has generated its second yet. Offered Elizabeth friendship (2 green, 1 red), but she declined. Also, let's all give Napoleon a warm welcome into the Renaissance. T155 - RA with Pedro completes (lucky timing with Porcelain, I guess). It was worth 1000 science (approximately 1.4 turns). World Congress Vote: World's Fair = yes (obviously). Cultural Heritage Sites = yes (useful plus diplomatic bump with William).
T156 - Coal finally online, but it's World's Fair time! We need to win, and we need to win quickly.
T163 - Win World's Fair with 59% of the total production. Only Elizabeth earned a silver (Pedro was 10.55 hammers short of a silver). Pachacuti shares a bronze with Pedro. Two policies (finish Piety), and culture up to 398/turn.
T164 - Second GS from Oracle/Porcelain City. Use Great Artist to start a golden age (culture and factory production). Convert food cargo to send hammers to Cordoba (a.k.a. Oracle/Porcelain City).
T166 - Second caravan sends hammers to Madrid (*sigh*). Send third cargo as hammers to Madrid, too. All trade routes are now hammers.
T167 - Purchase a Great Engineer (Replaceable Parts next turn). End of Session 8, and end of T217 Science Victory (Part 4).
T216 Science Victory (Part 5 of 5)
Yes, it's Turn 216 like stated in the first post. Think I was confusing the turn with previous game (which was either T177 or T187 Quick Speed on a small map).
Screenshot of Launch
Spoiler:
Well, we already know how this turns out since 216 isn't sub-200. Let's wrap this up and provide some final thoughts.
Session Break = More Time to Think
Spoiler:
Some thoughts between sessions - if I'm short on science, that's it. Not much I can do about it now (except, as an afterthought, gold purchase some buildings with slots). So, presuming the science is there, I need to make certain that the gold and/or hammers are there too. Looks like it might already be too late to hard build even just one part, so I need to buy all six. Sell some aluminum (not all of it, of course). Might need to tech towards trade routes for gold, and time to be hyperaggressive in selling units and infrastructure. Sell those colosseums (never found time for Circus Maximus anyway). Sell those harbors (never built one in Madrid anyway). Sell that garden in Seville with the GS spawn that will be just a bit too late. Aqueduct in Toledo? Gone! Even sold the water mill in Seville (trading 1 production and perhaps one better tile choice on the starve to max science for 18 gold and 2 gold/turn).
Workers? Give up on railroads. Time to convert one useful tile to a trading post each (except the one already working on Madrid's 5th-ring island copper) and then SELL. Trireme keeping vision between Elizabeth and my coast? Disband immediately!! Not worth the time sailing it home to sell for gold. Other trireme? SELL! Archer and spear? Meh, keep for now. They're free since they're garrisoned, but they're subject to the sale later.
With the plan now in place, let's end Turn 167.
T168-198 The Push for Victory!
Spoiler:
Tech Replaceable Parts on T168. New social policy - Rationalism (sovereignty) so that I am ready to use finisher when ready. Use GE faith purchased last turn for Statue of Liberty. Bulb one Great Scientist now so I can purchase labs and start full research mode next turn. Whoops, tech didn't actually complete. Well, it did, but it didn't. The progress shows some overflow. Didn't quite have enough faith to buy all five anyway (but buying 4 right now would have helped).
Over the end turn, I go unhappy - Monty allied with one of my CS allies (mercantile providing two unique lux for me). Easily fixed with the Statue free policy (Freedom Universal Suffrage), but that's a bit of science loss. Jesuit all five labs, and full research (except a 1-turn bank in Madrid and a 1-turn finished bank in Cordoba). Speaking of Oracle/Porcelain City, looks like Seville's just-out-of-reach second GS spawn comes before Cordoba's third. Looks like I should have found a way to make Seville the Porcelain City. It even has a garden! Well, it did - sold it last turn.
T170 - Madrid's second GS. Looks like we're only getting 7 spawns plus either 5 or 6 more from faith. Plus, I burned one for early labs, so only 11 or 12 full bulbs.
T171 - Friendship from Elizabeth! Could be useful later. At least I can sell for gold rather than gold per turn.
T173 - Bulb all three Great Writers at 4065 culture each (peaked at 4084 last turn) for Freedom 6 and open Commerce. Another GW in 6 turns, so not afraid of missing Rationalism finisher when needed.
Demographics side note: After the Freedom foreign legions, I jumped up to fourth in Soldiers without even upgrading them. Two turns later after a CS infantry gift, I'm first in Soldiers.
Barcelona's GS on T177, and a GW on T179. Looks like my scientist bulb has peaked at around 9200 (9234 right now), so let's go. I know it's possible to lose science overflow, and I know it's related to "punching through" a tech rather than having it remain at 1 turn remaining even though the progress is beyond what's needed. I've watched a video (thanks, PC J Law), but in his actual games, he doesn't follow the advice he gave. So, I don't know how to control it.
I bulb two on T179 which leaves Ballistics at 8727 of 5638, so I end turn. Bulb three on T180 (9235 each) brings me to Satellites at 16255 / 10588, so end turn. Turn 181 welcomes me to the future, and we have a vote for World Congress host. Yes - World Congress host rather than United Nations host. Let's vote Monty host! He's the only AI that could actually fund some spaceship parts, plus I can just vote someone else as the UN host the next turn (which ends up being the turn after that for some reason - I put Pachacuti as the final host on the T183 vote.
Back to T181, I punch through 1-Turn Atomic Theory with a 9240 bulb (progress was 6941/7013). I still have one more GS but need to stop research for wonders (and a cargo) which will cause the bulb to go down. So, I bulb again for Nuclear Fission into Advanced Ballistics. Success! My final GS spawn (Toledo) is next turn, but I need to start building. Hubble in Madrid (9 turns). Apollo in Cordoba (9 turns - lowered to 8 via new cargo later). Big Ben in Toledo (9 turns). Cargo ship in Seville (more than 1 turn). Stay on Research in Barcelona. I still have 5 GS coming (Toledo, 2 from Hubble, and 2 from faith) plus the Rationalism finisher. Next turn!
Toledo's GS spawn on T182 for the seventh (one each city plus one extra each in Madrid and Oracle/Porcelain City). Bulb this one immediately even though the value has already dropped to 9155. Also get a policy this turn, and I'm not even close to being ready for the Rationalism finisher - looks like it's Landsknechts for me! (Will I make it to mercantilism?)
Final host vote (Pachacuti, as previously discussed) on T183. On T184, I start building some workers in Seville to make a rail to Madrid and Cordoba - might need the spaceship part movement. Also, move units to stand on my road/rail. Don't want silly AI units standing on them if I need to move parts. Another vote on T185 (Natural Heritage Sites = yes, Art's Funding = yes for the diplomatic bump and since it doesn't matter anymore). Both passed on T186. Monty adds a reformation (Charitable Missions) on T188 - wasn't expecting that. Apollo done on T189, and parts cost 3050 each. Faith-purchase the first GS now - need three more turns of faith for the second. Whoops, I can't. Haven't finished Rationalism yet. Not ready right now.
Big Ben and Hubble finish on T190. Parts now cost 2590 each, so that's 15540 for the full spaceship. I'll have that in about 5 turns, and I can sell more units and infrastructure if it comes down to that. Unfortunately, GS bulb is only worth 8571 right now, so need to ramp back up. I'm running out of time to ramp up though!
Bulb once on T196 for Robotics, and then bulb GW for Rationalism finisher (Nanotechnology). Purchase GS in Cordoba and Barcelona. Puchase spaceship parts in Madrid, Toledo, and Seville. Place all three parts on T197 and buy two more. Final push on T198 would fail, so next turn to try and maximize the GS bulbs (thereby minimizing T200+ SV).
T199-216 The Limp Home
Spoiler:
The bulb value went down! Only by 13, but it went down, so bulb last three GS at 9472 each on T199. Leaves three techs to go (1 turn on Telecommunications). Next turn, I see 9 turns for Mobile Tactics and 10 turns for Particle Physics. So, that's it. Might as well try to speed it up a bit by buying some more slots. Didn't have any stock exchanges. Barcelona and Seville didn't even have banks. International Space Station passed on T208. Seville's GS also on its way (8 turns). Win the ISS on T215 - was very close race (Monty). The research boost from bronze was enough to finish Particle Physics. Buy the part for 1830 since I have mercantilism now. Seville gets its GS on T216 - same turn as the launch.
Final Thoughts
Spoiler:
So, the objective was sub-200 SV. I think this is a great map to try a Sacred Sites win. Plenty of room - massive faith - no AIs went super culture. Monty had the most (except me, of course), and you meet him early. I also think a sub-200 diplo win would be possible, or even a sub-200 domination victory, but those weren't the challenges. (Maybe those are common?)
As for my game, clearly, spawning that 1700-faith Prophet was a huge mistake. I also think I should have planned on a post-NC settler. Build it in Barcelona maybe? Have it ready for either the northern tundra (cargo from Seville) or the island copper. Southern tip of the mainland was actually reasonable. Buy some tiles for the fish, copper, and horses. Plenty of food, so send a production cargo when possible.
Otherwise, it's just not quite optimal enough play from me for sub-200. I didn't get the buildings out quick enough (or at all in some cases). Given the massive early faith and no apparent AI competition, I think taking Religious Coimmunity first was a good choice - might as well take advantage of the production ASAP. However, I think Mosques would have been better than Pagodas. Happiness was not an issue (except early), so the extra faith would have been more likely to be useful.
That's a wrap. As advertised, verrrry fun map, so thanks to Nizef. Final statistics (somewhat misleading since I bought those buildings at the end):
* 1418 science/turn, 466 gold/turn, 370 culture/turn, 110 faith per turn
* 107 total pop (M29 / B18 / S20 / C22 / T18)
* First in Literacy and Approval
* Second in Population, Production, and GNP
* Third in Land
* Fourth in Military
* Fifth in Food
* Tradition 6, Piety 6, Commerce 4, Rationalism 6, Freedom 6
* Wonders: Oracle, Sistine Chapel, Leaning Tower of Pisa, Porcelain Tower, Statue of Liberty, Big Ben, Hubble Space Telescope, and technically, the International Space Station.
so, played through it twice.
First run tradition, turn 269 win, which is my best time.
2nd run, with map knowledge, went liberty. turn 264 win, so new best time.
i definitely didnt optimize as best as possible, and could have micromanaged cities or great people better, so maybe I can get this down to 250 at best, but I have no clue how people get under 220, let alone 200.
Are you saving Great Scientists (and Great Writers)? That plus generally growing as much as possible until you start bulbing the scientists about 8 turns after research labs are up. Internal food trade routes for the growth. For mid-game defense, try to pay for wars in hopes that nearby AI will fight others rather than you. Later, a few infantries can usually stop any invasion attempt. Might need some AA guns too.
Not saying that's the only way it'll work, but it has a good success rate. Civil Society in Freedom helps fill all your specialist slots (+2 science for each from Rationalism's Secularism). Ideology pressure usually hurts happiness significantly (this game being a rare exception), but it's usually not too hard to find enough happiness in Freedom.
Oh looks fun; however, Spain games usually add a key decision point that can drastically alter games: settle the normal t0/1 or go for the greedy NW.
I tend to avoid the latter, as it’s not something you would do with any other Civ and feels a bit like cheating because you have implicit map knowledge, i.e. it’s a Spain game so there’s probably at least one NW hiding in the fog. But the UA is so busted if you find one it can be huge in breaking the sub 200 mark.
Are you saving Great Scientists (and Great Writers)? That plus generally growing as much as possible until you start bulbing the scientists about 8 turns after research labs are up. Internal food trade routes for the growth. For mid-game defense, try to pay for wars in hopes that nearby AI will fight others rather than you. Later, a few infantries can usually stop any invasion attempt. Might need some AA guns too.
Not saying that's the only way it'll work, but it has a good success rate. Civil Society in Freedom helps fill all your specialist slots (+2 science for each from Rationalism's Secularism). Ideology pressure usually hurts happiness significantly (this game being a rare exception), but it's usually not too hard to find enough happiness in Freedom.
I dont save GW, never thought to, but yeah, GS get saved till the end. I usually have 8-10 by the time I start popping. I build Oxford up to 1 turn left, then try to time it to finish later when a key tech is on deck. I never know when to finish rationalism. I don't want to waste the free tech on something that might take 7 turns when I can use it on something that might take 15 to learn, but that obviously costs me the final policy by a while.
I run mostly internal food trade routes, but if im close enough in the early game to run one to an enemy to get 5 science per turn or so, i tend to. I assume then that is wrong?
Wars werent an issue here, never fought once either try.
went freedom in the Trad game, plenty of money to but parts the turn i got the tech
went order in the Lib game. had 4 GE at the end to use
should I always go Freedom?
getting more DoF seems important, i probably dont get nearly enough research agreements.
Growth in mid game leads to better science end game - that's why internal food routes are so powerful. Plus, early food trade helps so you can work a few production tiles while still growing at a reasonable pace.
I just recently got back into this game after someone linked PC J Law's YouTube site on the steam message board. His channel has several let's play videos which I think are good, and a few guides. Here's a playlist link to the collection of guides:
Now this is my kind of map! Ample luxuries, ample space, and a mountain pass between me and the aggressive neighbors. I'm on T100 and things are going well.
Spoiler:
Settled in place, can't move away from that start. Found Uluru, bought a settler and settled on the river coast tile and bought Uluru as soon as I could. Found both GBR and bought a worker; waited for the settler to have an escort then bought it and moved to settle on the Gold next to GBR.
I got a faith ruin on T21 and chose OWN of course. With Uluru and both GBR online, so much faith! This is probably my earliest religion, my GPr was born on T45 and I moved him to Seville to found the religion to be closer to the other civs and spread it easier their way. Actually, my second GPr was T45 so I must have had a religion on T30something! (Didn't take notes). And the second GPr came so fast afterwards that I used it to spread my religion to the western CS and my own two cities to hasten the spread. Religion: Tithe, Pagodas, Cathedrals, Interiant Preachers.
Also, my earliest NC on Deity ever, like T80 or something.
Thanks to the mountain pass, Monte, Caesar and William are all fighting each other and keep asking me to join them but I've stayed out of it thus far. Let them fight amongst themselves while I build an empire to stand the test of time.
Edit: Only bad thing to happen this game has been that I've been beaten to every wonder I tried except Orace. Got beat to GL, ToA, Petra and Hagia Sophia. Granted, I usually never try any of these on Deity but things were going so well I had to try.
Miscalculated the whole GS bulbing thing so missed the first chance I'd have to to do the World Vote. Had to wait another (20? 30?) turns - never really understood the timing of all that. Definitely the fastest (in terms of IRL time) victory I've had. Probably a shade over 2 hours.
4 city NC then added one city. Abused cargo ships. Wasn't sure if I was going to do Diplo or GWB DomV, but eventually tuned out and just went for the peaceful option.
Trad 5
Patronage 3
Full rationalism
Freedom 5
If one were really considering every move I think <T150 victory is possible on this map. I was raelly in 'Next turn' mode from Scientific Theory onwards
T175 SV
My first try of the game, I'm not familiar with GBR spain game pace, so a lot if miscalculation. I finished with 3 more tech when victory.
That's a lot of extra science, so I guess experienced player might be able to win 10T+ faster without prior knowledge of map.
But we are really too far away from AI, that makes gaining from war much harder than average map. So it should be hard to challenge <T150 SV on this map.
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