Question: Do I get the religious bonuses from other player's religion?

[HorseshoeHermit]

Are you telling me that even the Reformation belief I invested an entire policy track's worth of culture in, gets shared to other civs who adopt my dominant religion? Jesuit Education, To the Glory of God, Sacred Sites, they get those too?

I knew about the other beliefs. IFD's odd behaviour is known too - any time you use a prophet or missionary of the IFD religion that you captured, you get the science boost. I never tested one that you purchased.

Oh and here's a funny note from a Let's Play on this forum: If your city with a majority pantheon has followers of your own religion, you can double-accrue the pantheon belief using Religious Tolerance.

 

[Barghaest]

Are you telling me that even the Reformation belief I invested an entire policy track's worth of culture in, gets shared to other civs who adopt my dominant religion? Jesuit Education, To the Glory of God, Sacred Sites, they get those too?

Yes, I can absolutely verify this one. In my Mongolia game, I never established a religion, but the one I adopted had Jesuit Education and I was able to purchase educational buildings with Faith.

 

[Barghaest]

Very confusing. I would welcome additional input on these questions.

But at least I now know that pantheon beliefs, and not only follower beliefs, are also granted to the cities of other civs that convert to that religion. I wasn't sure if that was the case (except for the Religious Tolerance policy).

Apart from Founder beliefs - IFD excepted it might seem - those who adopt the religion get all benefits from it (Reformation and Enhancer included).

 

[TractorBoy]

If I am the first to establish a Religion and I have desert folklore, what would be the consequences of sending a missionary to an AIciv surrounded by desert? How about a City State surrounded by desert as opposed to not?

Another question - I assume that the closer we are to other civs and CSs then the quicker we spread our Religion, so in this respect is it a good idea to play High sea level on a Pangea map? How exactly is this spread equated?

 

[kaspergm]

If I am the first to establish a Religion and I have desert folklore, what would be the consequences of sending a missionary to an AIciv surrounded by desert? How about a City State surrounded by desert as opposed to not?

If you pick Desert Folklore and spread it to an enemy city, he will get the benefit of Desert Folklore in that city, i.e. his kingdom will gain +1 Faith from every desert tile worked. Thus, you will help him found his own religion which will then surplant yours, if there are still free religions available.

Another question - I assume that the closer we are to other civs and CSs then the quicker we spread our Religion, so in this respect is it a good idea to play High sea level on a Pangea map? How exactly is this spread equated?

A city will perform religious pressure on any city in a circle of maximum 10 hexes distance from the city (although the belief Itinerant Preachers will increase the distance to 13 hexes). The pressure exerted is 6 points regardless of how many followers there are in the city, but can be affected by factors like Grand Temple or the Religious Texts belief. A city receives an amount of pressure which is the sum of all pressure sources, i.e. 6 points from any city within appropriate distance as well as additional pressure from trade routes and potentially spies if you (are stupid enough to) take the enhancer belief that does that. Thus, the closer the cities are, the more cities are likely to overlap and generate pressure, causing a faster spread.

The exact relationship between pressure and number of followers is (afaik.) not known in detail, but the outlines seems pretty clear: Each follower needs a certain amount of cumulative pressure in order to convert. For instance, let's assume first follower needs 100 points, second follower 200 points, third follower 300 points, etc. (these numbers are made up). If the target city has +12 pressure each turn, first citizen will convert after 9 turns (108 points cummulative), second citizen will convert after 25 turns (300 points cummulative), etc. Like I said, these numbers are made up, but I'm pretty certain a mechanism similar to this must be in play, because what we see in game is that it's very easy to sway the fist citizens, but if you move in a prophet or a missionary, each consecutive convert actions will turn fewer and fewer citizens. Opposing religious pressure also plays into this equation in some way, because when you want to convert citizens that are already following another religion, this takes longer time and more pressure.

 

[TractorBoy]

Thanks Kaspergm, most of what you have written is a big help to my understanding of the game.

If you pick Desert Folklore and spread it to an enemy city, he will get the benefit of Desert Folklore in that city, i.e. his kingdom will gain +1 Faith from every desert tile worked. Thus, you will help him found his own religion which will then surplant yours, if there are still free religions available.

Is it possible the AI have been programmed to accept a Religion that contains the desert folklore etc etc that they would have chosen had they been the first to aquire them despite the fact that the Religion would not have been their chosen one. When I say accept, I mean would they make every effort not to change said Religion?

A city will perform religious pressure on any city in a circle of maximum 10 hexes distance from the city (although the belief Itinerant Preachers will increase the distance to 13 hexes). The pressure exerted is 6 points regardless of how many followers there are in the city, but can be affected by factors like Grand Temple or the Religious Texts belief. A city receives an amount of pressure which is the sum of all pressure sources, i.e. 6 points from any city within appropriate distance as well as additional pressure from trade routes and potentially spies if you (are stupid enough to) take the enhancer belief that does that. Thus, the closer the cities are, the more cities are likely to overlap and generate pressure, causing a faster spread.

Knowing all of this will completely change my strategy for future games, I had been wondering if I was wasting my missionaries on Cities close to my Capital and this knowledge has confirmed my suspicions.

The exact relationship between pressure and number of followers is (afaik.) not known in detail, but the outlines seems pretty clear: Each follower needs a certain amount of cumulative pressure in order to convert. For instance, let's assume first follower needs 100 points, second follower 200 points, third follower 300 points, etc. (these numbers are made up). If the target city has +12 pressure each turn, first citizen will convert after 9 turns (108 points cummulative), second citizen will convert after 25 turns (300 points cummulative), etc. Like I said, these numbers are made up, but I'm pretty certain a mechanism similar to this must be in play, because what we see in game is that it's very easy to sway the fist citizens, but if you move in a prophet or a missionary, each consecutive convert actions will turn fewer and fewer citizens. Opposing religious pressure also plays into this equation in some way, because when you want to convert citizens that are already following another religion, this takes longer time and more pressure.

Sounds about right to me, and makes a lot of sense of what I have encountered. You have put a lot of thought into this and I thank you for it.

 

[Barghaest]

Like I said, these numbers are made up, but I'm pretty certain a mechanism similar to this must be in play, because what we see in game is that it's very easy to sway the fist citizens, but if you move in a prophet or a missionary, each consecutive convert actions will turn fewer and fewer citizens.

While I still don't know the exact numbers, it also depends on the presence of existing religions... it is easier to convert citizens that don't already have a religion (which is why the first missionary has a much larger impact than successive ones on other cities because they can snag more non-believers initially instead of converting existing believers).

 

[sendos]

What about reformations? To my knowledge, this is how I've sorted them out between helping (yes) and not helping (no) follower civs:

Glory of God - no
Heathen conversion - no
Jesuit education - yes
Sacred sites - yes
Underground sect - probably no (?)*
Charitable missions - ?*
Religious fervour - yes
Unity of Prophets - no* (more of an enhancer reformation)

I think I missed some reformations, but oh well.


Does charitable missions affect only CS' that follow your religion? If so that sucks.

* Haven't personally seen it for myself or heard other views on it. Pure speculation.


Also, if your empire follows someone else's religion entirely and you or they propose that religion as world religion, you get 2 delegates but your religious partner gets a big tourism bonus. Not a good idea if they're the cultural leaders unless you seize their city and theme it.

 

[TurboJ]

Can someone confirm if my enemies will benefit of my religion's belief "Defender of the Faith"?

I took that belief because my plan is to colonize other continents early, and want to focus most of my military strength on those new areas.
Now, if the enemy on my continent also benefits of the same belief (my religion is spreading fast), it would make conquering those civs so much more difficult, exactly contrary to my plan..

 

[TheMarshmallowBear]

The Defender of Faith and Just War should pop up when attacking as bonuses/penalties applied.