Question for Christians...

[CurtSibling]

Hullo!

Today, I have a moral question for posters of the christian variery:
Imagine two people, and decide which one of them gets to enter
'heaven', and which one does not. Here are our two candidates.

(1)
A brilliant surgeon, who spends his life saving the lives of disabled children.
His stance is anti-abortion, but he is an atheist. He dies of old age, without
ever seeking any form of religious guidance or joining christianity.

Does he go to heaven? Or hell?

(2)
A tyrannical dictator, who spends his live conducting a reign of terror. He
has churches pulled down, he persecutes and exterminates all religious people,
including chidren and the disabled. He converts to christianity before he dies.

Does he go to heaven? Or hell?

Tell me what you think. Consider carefully before shooting from the hip.

Other non-religious posters are more than welcome to give opinions too.
But I am interested to see what christians put forth as their judgement.

PS
Let's keep it real.
No crusades or jihads, please.

 

[Ecclesiastes]

The second would, you have to be a christian to go to heaven., you cant honestly tell me Curt that after all this religious bashing youv done that you didnt already know the requirements to go to heaven. I suppose this is just another misleading ploy to make christians look bad.

 

[Perfection]

The second would, you have to be a christian to go to heaven.

How do you justify the apparent unfairness of this situation?

 

[Ecclesiastes]

Clearly stated in the bible, if you accept jesus christ as your lord and savior then you go to heaven, plain and simple, regardless of what you have done.

 

[Lotus49]

I'm more of an open-minded, common sense Christain, that believes God judges fairly. As for the surgeon, difficult to say... that would depend on his personal connection/relationship with God, basically in the end coming down to - does he 'want' to enter Heaven, and be in the company of the Lord, or not. Only at the time of judgement, between the man/spirit himself, and God Himself, can that decision be determined.

As for the dictator, it would depend on how genuine he actually is. Take Saul (later the apostle Paul) for example - once he slayed Christians, then converted, and the rest is history, a life dedicated to the service of the Lord.

If Stalin on his death bed, was visited by a priest who talked to him, at which time Stalin said, "OK yeah, whatever - sure, I believe... save me Jesus... bah." -that wouldn't quite be the same.

God knows not only the actions and words of your life, but also what's in your heart... and the journey it's taken during your life. That's how you'll be judged.

 

[CurtSibling]

The second would, you have to be a christian to go to heaven., you cant honestly tell me Curt that after all this religious bashing youv done that you didnt already know the requirements to go to heaven. I suppose this is just another misleading ploy to make christians look bad.

Care to explain...?
Not all christian sects have your view.

.

 

[Ecclesiastes]

Firstly there are no Christian "Sects" there are christians and then there are not, this has been a misleadance that has only made things worse since the first days of christianity.

As for the request, well, good lord....*sigh* if you accept jesus christ as your lord and savior, you go to heaven, the first man, didnt, so he does not meet requirement one, the second man did, so he meets requirement B. Clairfied?

 

[Perfection]

Clearly stated in the bible, if you accept jesus christ as your lord and savior then you go to heaven, plain and simple, regardless of what you have done.

It appears to me that God is quite arbitrary and unfair. Do you believe you can justify the morality of such a stance by God?

 

[Ecclesiastes]

Yes, actually, there are not greater sins, murder is no worse than lying, and lying a thousand times is no more worse than lying once. Simply put, there are sins, if you sin you are a sinner, there are no super-sinners or first class sinners there are just "sinners". Seeing as how Jesus Christ was the only "sinnless" person there ever was, we are all sinners, even good boy doctor here, so the dictator goes up and the doc goes down. In all honestly, do you really think your good "deeds" matter to God, I mean sure they matter, but its not like your gonna impress the man upstairs or anything.

 

[Perfection]

Yes, actually, there are not greater sins, murder is no worse than lying, and lying a thousand times is no more worse than lying once.

Quite frankly, I find that absurd.

In all honestly, do you really think your good "deeds" matter to God, I mean sure they matter, but its not like your gonna impress the man upstairs or anything.

What makes you think beliefs matter either? Why would God care about beliefs and not deeds?

 

[Ecclesiastes]

Quite frankly, I find that absurd.

Then you and God disagree, I mean you wont be the first one

What makes you think beliefs matter either? Why would God care about beliefs and not deeds?

Becuase you cant do anything except accept(ha ha!I knew I would do it eventually) Jesus Christ as you lord and savior to get to heaven.Its not like you can find the secret pipe over the brick wall to HEAVEN.

 

[Peri]

Number 2 every single time. Isnt it absurd?
Good guy goes to hell and the bad guy goes to heaven.

 

[Ecclesiastes]

In Gods eyes there no worse than eachother, there both sinners, my my, this shouldnt have to be explained a million times, listen, none of these petty talks matter. Youv all heard the word a million times, you chose not to accept it so its time to just move on to someone else, its not like you guys are any deader than you already were. Perf, Curt,peri, Im outi.

 

[AxiomUk]

I'd say to say that you are Christian or you are not and that all Christian beliefs are one and the same is not entirely accurate. There's no such thing as sects, granted, but there are differences as to some beliefs within the group of Christianity unless you are saying that any alternative to 'pure' Christianity is not legitimate, which is an entirely different debate.

 

[Truronian]

Excellent! I'll simply embrace Jesus just before I die thus skipping the tedious religious ceremonies and kooky philosophy during life. Best of both worlds.

 

[Peri]

This could be a trick question because if no.2 is gay and doesnt become straight then he takes the down escalator too.

 

[Margim]

Hullo!

Today, I have a moral question for posters of the christian variery:
Imagine two people, and decide which one of them gets to enter
'heaven', and which one does not. Here are our two candidates.

(1)
A brilliant surgeon, who spends his life saving the lives of disabled children.
His stance is anti-abortion, but he is an atheist. He dies of old age, without
ever seeking any form of religious guidance or joining christianity.

Does he go to heaven? Or hell?

(2)
A tyrannical dictator, who spends his live conducting a reign of terror. He
has churches pulled down, he persecutes and exterminates all religious people,
including chidren and the disabled. He converts to christianity before he dies.

Does he go to heaven? Or hell?

Tell me what you think. Consider carefully before shooting from the hip.

Other non-religious posters are more than welcome to give opinions too.
But I am interested to see what christians put forth as their judgement.

PS
Let's keep it real.
No crusades or jihads, please.

You're assuming a polarity I don't believe exists. Either could end up in heaven or hell (whatever they may be)... the fact is, we don't and can't really know.

 

[Adamb0mb]

My grandma is a devout christian and her heaven would be flawed if she knew I was in hell while she was in heaven. (After we're both dead of course)

Could my soul be saved by my grandmother's faith?

 

[Oerdin]

According to Christian doctrine 2 gets in but not 1. BTW religion is bullfeathers.

 

[silver 2039]

BTW religion is bullfeathers.

I so totally agree. The entire religon is flawed in principle if it would theologically allow such a thing.