Question on Ocean movement into enemies territory

[Coldeath]

HI there

I am in my first game of C2C and have come across something that is just confusing me. I am at the point where i have cogs with rudder and optics but, my cogs will not enter enemies territory. I am not to sure what i have done wrong, but then i declare war on one of the AI players then i am not able to move my ships into their territory. Hope you all can help.

 

[tmv]

Okay, two questions:

1. Are you unable to move into the other civ's territory when you are at peace or at war?
2. What does this have to do with ocean (thread title)?

 

[Coldeath]

Okay, two questions:

1. Are you unable to move into the other civ's territory when you are at peace or at war?
2. What does this have to do with ocean (thread title)?

1. I am able to move my caravel during peace time. As i was able to drop off spies to their cost line.

2. As this is all sea movement I thought it would be best to point this out as i have not tried it with land units ( I am playing in a Island map )

 

[Stormwind]

Certain water units like Caravels and Outriggers can enter a rivals territory without open borders.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Certain water units like Caravels and Outriggers can enter a rivals territory without open borders.

Exactly.

But most cannot. It's the Explorer ships that can.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Meanwhile your land explorer units can't enter without at least Right of Passage agreement. A big inconsistency.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Not really when you consider that land is much more securable. I mean, you could make it so that Recon could enter enemy territory - why not... they'd be risking it but that's the kind of things Recons do right?

Is that something you'd want?

I don't see good cause to close off owned water tiles to explorer ships because it would make their ability to navigate the coast far too limited for the few screwed over civs that get stuck between nations.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Not really when you consider that land is much more securable. I mean, you could make it so that Recon could enter enemy territory - why not... they'd be risking it but that's the kind of things Recons do right?

Is that something you'd want?

I don't see good cause to close off owned water tiles to explorer ships because it would make their ability to navigate the coast far too limited for the few screwed over civs that get stuck between nations.

Criminals break the whole exploration thing anyway so maybe just get rid of the recon units totally. The whole point of Right of Passage is to allow your recon, worker and other non-combat units to pass safely. In C2C they can't because they will be attacked by criminals. I have no problem with them being attacked by barbarians but the hidden nationality units should not be able to attack them.

I think the problem is of resupply. Sailing in those waters means you must be getting food etc from that nation. Also other mods have individual movement treaties for land/sea/air.

BtW while mentioning criminals I think we should add a chance that they go rogue. Basically they become barbarian units rather than your units and so attack your things instead. The same for the "bandit" units that the AI is so fond of. Can't be done without the ai being programmed to understand the down side but it would better reflect the nature of these units.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Criminals break the whole exploration thing anyway so maybe just get rid of the recon units totally. The whole point of Right of Passage is to allow your recon, worker and other non-combat units to pass safely. In C2C they can't because they will be attacked by criminals. I have no problem with them being attacked by barbarians but the hidden nationality units should not be able to attack them.

That's what the Amnesty game option is for... for those who feel as you do about exactly that. It keeps you from being able to use your HN units to attack units with passage within your own borders. Doesn't stop OTHER players from doing so in other player borders but at least you'd know that it's not the player who's territory you're in attacking you.

I'd be all for giving Recon (not Hunters) bRivalTerritory - or whatever the tag is that allows passage. This wouldn't mean the same territory would allow merchants and missionaries in, which is what really makes it worth something to have the rite of passage anyhow.

BtW while mentioning criminals I think we should add a chance that they go rogue. Basically they become barbarian units rather than your units and so attack your things instead. The same for the "bandit" units that the AI is so fond of. Can't be done without the ai being programmed to understand the down side but it would better reflect the nature of these units.

That's an interesting new thought. May have to wait until I start working on Morale factors as I can see how it may be integrated into those loyalty matters. Maybe too Criminals should be able to attempt to convert each other. Would certainly add another layer of 'story' to their adventures in the game.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

That's what the Amnesty game option is for... for those who feel as you do about exactly that. It keeps you from being able to use your HN units to attack units with passage within your own borders. Doesn't stop OTHER players from doing so in other player borders but at least you'd know that it's not the player who's territory you're in attacking you.

So that is what that is for. I thought it only applied to the player because of the use of the word "you". It sounds exactly like what I want.

 

[Thunderbrd]

I made it just for you bro. And anyone else who feels as you do. Might try it now and then myself but my wife was in dramatic opposition in her opinion.

 

[JosEPh_II]

I made it just for you bro. And anyone else who feels as you do. Might try it now and then myself but my wife was in dramatic opposition in her opinion.

I think I'm in the same camp as your better half T-brd. Especially for the sea going ships. Maybe that is why Afforess made the Can not Claim Ocean Tiles long ago.

JosEPh

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

I made it just for you bro. And anyone else who feels as you do. Might try it now and then myself but my wife was in dramatic opposition in her opinion.

Limits her to only playing C2C then.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Why would we play anything else? lol

But to go a little deeper into how she feels on that, she really hates opponent units being in her lands for any excuse whatsoever and will do all she can to eradicate them for doing so. Even if she does have an agreement with the AI, which she pretty much would never do. She plays a very border hostile game.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

But, but... we are talking about when you make an agreement with them that you and they can enter your territory, Right of Passage for non-combat and Open Borders for all. So if she does not give those treaties then what is the problem. If she does give the treaties and then renegs on the deal by killing the units I think that might make her a rogue nation.

 

[Thunderbrd]

If she made such an agreement, it would be to invite idiot merchants to spill their blood in her lands, not realizing it was her own criminals attacking them as they came in to trade their wares. She'd be proud to be called a rogue nation for it.