Question on Triumvirate Government

[Alphawolf]

This in no way represents the other Founding Fathers

Please vote on the ideas not the structure or format.
I would like the citizen's ideas on this that I put together.

My idea of a possible Government
Keep in mind that I don't know if this is feasible, I am new to this "Demo Game"

I have based this idea on a combination of American system of three branches of government: the Executive, the Legislative, and the Judiciary and the Roman system of Triumvirate.

EDITED: Impeachment with the Exception of the Triumvirate

WARNING open poll

A) The Legislative Branch
I. The most important branch consists of all citizens of the Nation except those holding elected offices that term.
II. Only the Legislative may decide two things: Declare War/Make Peace/Alliance and a change in Taxes (the science/treasury meter) higher that 10% every 5 turns.
III. Also may bring an impeachment/no confidence vote against the big three (Triumvirate) at anytime.
IV. An impeachment will be held like this: any member of the Legislative branch may start a poll to ask for the impeachment of the Triumvirate (either all three leave office or none of them). This poll will be open 48 hours only, for the motion to carry at least 2/3 (67%) must have voted in favor and at least half of the number of citizens in the citizen registry must have voted. If the motion is carried another poll will be set up the same way and if in it impeachment wins the Triumvirate are removed from office.

B) The Executive Branch
I. This branch consists of the Triumvirate and any and all elected and appointed advisors.
Ia. The Triumvirate will consist of the President, Secretary of State, and the Minister of War.
Ib. The advisors will be any office that we the citizens deem necessary to have that is not included as part of the Triumvirate, the Judiciary, or a Gubernatorial office.
II. The Powers and Duties or the Triumvirate.
IIa. They shall work together as a group. If they have a problem they will work it out amongst themselves we do will not hear about.
IIb. The Powers and Duties of the President
1. The President is Grand Old Man and thus he has great influence but not that much power.
2. The President nominates the Secretary of State, Minister of War, and the Chief Justice of the Court
3. During the Turnchat the President may order the ending of the game for a poll vote, i.e.: war, peace, change in Tax, or any thing else he deems appropriate.
4. The President may ask the Legislature for a Declaration of WAR at anytime.
5. The units the President controls
5a. The President shall control all non military except for workers under the control of a Governor.
5b. The President shall control all Naval units.
6. The President shall be elected in a poll of all citizens, if the candidate with the most votes receives less that 1/3 (33%) of the votes a runoff will be held unless the winning candidate has 10% more votes that the candidate with the second highest number of votes. Said runoff will be between the two candidates with the highest number of votes.
6a. The nominations for President may not be self nominations.
7. The President shall have the entire power of the Triumvirate for the first turn.
IIc. The Powers and Duties of the Secretary of State
1. The Secretary of State shall have complete control of the Foreign policy of our nation with the exception of War/Peace/Alliance, trade/sell/buy of techs, and trade of cities.
1a. The Secretary of State needs the unanimous permission of the Triumvirate to take the following to a legislative vote: War/Peace/Alliance or the giving away of one of our Nation's cities.
1b. The Secretary of State needs the unanimous permission of the Triumvirate to accept a city or to trade/sell techs.
1c. The Secretary of State needs the permission of the President to buy techs or in any deal in which we loose more than 250 gold.
2. The nominations and election of The Secretary of State shall be held as follows:
2a. All nominations for Secretary of State will be self nominations.
2b. The President shall take at least 5 but no more that ten of self nominations and hold a poll for the next term's Secretary of State.
2c. The Secretary of State shall be elected in a poll of all citizens, if the candidate with the most votes receives less that 1/3 (33%) of the votes a runoff will be held unless the winning candidate has 10% more votes that the candidate with the second highest number of votes. Said runoff will be between the two candidates with the highest number of votes.
IId. The Powers and Duties of the Minister of War
1. The Minister of War shall have complete control of all military land units with the exception of garrisons under the control of Governors.
1a. The Minister of War may move any military land units anywhere in our territory, unclaimed territory, enemy territory, or allied territory.
A. Outside of our territory or enemy territory the Minister of War need the President's permission to move beyond a certain boundary of our borders.
1b. The Minister of War needs the unanimous permission of the Triumvirate to attack an enemy city
1c. The Minister of War my not attack a city or unit of a neutral or allied Civilization.
2. The Minister of War shall have complete control of all air units.
3. The Minister of War with unanimous permission of the Triumvirate may ask the legislature for a Declaration of WAR.
4. The nominations and election of the Minister of War shall be held as follows:
4a. All nominations for Minister of War will be self nominations.
4b. The President shall take at least 5 but no more that ten of self nominations and hold a poll for the next term's Minister of War.
4c. The Minister of War shall be elected in a poll of all citizens, if the candidate with the most votes receives less that 1/3 (33%) of the votes a runoff will be held unless the winning candidate has 10% more votes that the candidate with the second highest number of votes. Said runoff will be between the two candidates with the highest number of votes.

The Judiciary Branch
III. The Judiciary Branch will the known as The Court, it will consist of three Judges, a Chief Justice and two Associate Justices.
IIIa. The Powers and Duties of the Chief Justice
1. Whatever we decide them to be.
2. The nominations and election of the Chief Justice shall be held as follows:
2a. All nominations for Chief Justice will be self nominations.
2b. The President shall take at least 5 but no more that ten of self nominations and hold a poll for the next term's Chief Justice.
2c. The Chief Justice shall be elected in a poll of all citizens, if the candidate with the most votes receives less that 1/3 (33%) of the votes a runoff will be held unless the winning candidate has 10% more votes that the candidate with the second highest number of votes. Said runoff will be between the two candidates with the highest number of votes.
IIIb. The Powers and Duties of the Associate Justices
1. Whatever we decide them to be.
2. The nominations and elections for the Associate Justices shall be held as follows:
2a. Nominations for Associate Justices can be self nominations or some can nominate you.
2b. The Associate Justices shall be the two candidates with the highest number of votes.
IIIc. No Judge may be impeached.
IIId. For the first term there shall only be one judge and that shall be an Associate Justice.

Governors
IV. Governors are the elected officials that run cities
IVa. The Powers and Duties of the Governors.
1. The Governors may move any workers or garrison units assigned to them anywhere in there city's radius.
2. What ever other power we decide to give them
IVb. Governors shall be elected in whatever way we choose.
Ivc. Governors may not be impeached.

-the Wolf

 

[Ginger_Ale]

1. Usually we don't have someone write a whole constitution and then poll it -- we discuss seperate aspects and then write it. We usually go Discussion -> Writing, not the other way around. No harm in doing this, though.

2. The format is a bit hard to read and unorganized.

3. It is a bit informal.

4. "Governors may move any workers or garrison units assigned to them anywhere in there city's radious" -- what happens for captured workers? I think we've tried this and it gets a bit hectic -- the governors want all the workers. It's good to have a position that deals with workers (we've had a Director of Infrastructure (just workers), a Leader of Finance and Infrastructure (money control and workers), or we've had the President control them). If we have a position that deals with just workers, they can weigh all the suggestions and decide what is best for the nation, not just the city.

5. I don't like the impeaching part, you can just vote off people you don't like. And also, many of the citizens who sign up in the citizen registry will never come visit the DG again -- you won't get 1/2 the citizens to vote.

6. It explains all the people, but not really how the game works.

It is a good start, I guess, with the 3 branches, but needs to go more in depth.

 

[uubry]

6. It explains all the people, but not really how the game works.

This was (i think) just a sugestion for a government frame, not a constitution (Constitution= Government+other stuff).

A potential solution to the worker problem could be that the govenors decide what improvements go where and the priority of those improvements. Meanwhile, the Dept of Infrastructure controls the worker deployment.

 

[Cell Dude]

I personally liked the idea of the legislature and the presidency, but I am failing to see the point of the other positions. Good start, but it needs more work to be work accepting.

 

[Knightlancer]

I really like the idea of the three man gov instead of just the President. Nothing is ever complete so I didn't vote great.
-KL

 

[Gorillagorilla]

I agree with Ginger Ale's see his post.

 

[Imerator29]

I think you have a great Executive Branch minus the other cabinet officials, and I think that you should run with it.

 

[Stilgar08]

These are the points I would like to talk about before deciding whether this is good or bad...

B) The Executive Branch
2. The President nominates the Secretary of State, Minister of War, and the Chief Justice of the Court

You mention later they nominate themselves and afterwards the president gets to select 5-10 of the self-nominated to put into the poll... Maybe my english isn't good enough, but I found this sort of confusing concerning this paragraph??

4. The President may ask the Legislature for a Declaration of WAR at anytime.

I find "anytime" a bit too harsh when it comes to war. I wouldn't want to slow things down but there should be a fixed term for proposing war in a poll (can propose every 5th,10th,15th,20th,25th,30th of the month he's running...)

5a. The President shall control all non military except for workers under the control of a Governor.

Governors
1. The Governors may move any workers or garrison units assigned to them anywhere in there city's radius.

Did I miss something? How does it work? Maybe I'm a little bit off-topic here, but how do we connect citieswhere you have to build roads outside the city radius? If I would be governor I wouldn't want to give my workers for that? Maybe the triumvirate should have the power to assign a certain no. of workers to "general use" or "building up of trade-network" - maybe the no. should be decided by a poll among the governours where the president (or whoever is in charge for "general services") states why he needs these workers and from where he wants to get them Maybe the discussion should be opened a few days (1,2,5) in advance of the poll so that the governors who would have to "help out" can post their opinion or bargain certain aspects (get the worker back in 10-15turns...)

1c. The Secretary of State needs the permission of the President to buy techs or in any deal in which we loose more than 250 gold.

the amount needs to be discussed. Maybe it should be related to the treasury available...

 

[Sticky Fingers]

You defiantly need indents.

 

[Alphawolf]

Comments interspersed below.

You mention later they nominate themselves and afterwards the president gets to select 5-10 of the self-nominated to put into the poll... Maybe my english isn't good enough, but I found this sort of confusing concerning this paragraph??

No, there's nothing wrong with your English/American . I didn't pay attention well enough when I wrote. I change the name of what the President does as soon as I come up with an appropriate word.

I find "anytime" a bit too harsh when it comes to war. I wouldn't want to slow things down but there should be a fixed term for proposing war in a poll (can propose every 5th,10th,15th,20th,25th,30th of the month he's running...)

I posted this to get this type of feedback. I change it for the next version.

Did I miss something? How does it work? Maybe I'm a little bit off-topic here, but how do we connect citieswhere you have to build roads outside the city radius? If I would be governor I wouldn't want to give my workers for that? Maybe the triumvirate should have the power to assign a certain no. of workers to "general use" or "building up of trade-network" - maybe the no. should be decided by a poll among the governours where the president (or whoever is in charge for "general services") states why he needs these workers and from where he wants to get them Maybe the discussion should be opened a few days (1,2,5) in advance of the poll so that the governors who would have to "help out" can post their opinion or bargain certain aspects (get the worker back in 10-15turns...)

Good ideas. What I was thinking was the first worker created in a game belongs to the President, after that any worker created by a city that doesn’t have one belongs to that city. After that we can decide something. I just though that we could decide this in a way that it didn't have to be codified in the constitution.

the amount needs to be discussed. Maybe it should be related to the treasury available...

I agree it should be discussed I put 250 in a place holder.

-the Wolf

 

[Alphawolf]

You defiantly need indents.

It looked fine in MS Word, I'm still trying to figure this system.
-the Wolf

 

[Armed_Maniac]

I find "anytime" a bit too harsh when it comes to war. I wouldn't want to slow things down but there should be a fixed term for proposing war in a poll (can propose every 5th,10th,15th,20th,25th,30th of the month he's running...)

I posted this to get this type of feedback. I change it for the next version.

I actually think 'anytime' is better. Think of in-game consequences. If there's a certain unit you must intercept for wathever reason (or attack before they declare war on you and do their offensive first), you must be able to do it on the spot, and not wait 5 turns for a 'suitable' time to do your move. I'm not saying he should do it without going to the polls, but he should be able to declare war any round.

 

[Stilgar08]

I actually think 'anytime' is better. Think of in-game consequences. If there's a certain unit you must intercept for wathever reason (or attack before they declare war on you and do their offensive first), you must be able to do it on the spot, and not wait 5 turns for a 'suitable' time to do your move. I'm not saying he should do it without going to the polls, but he should be able to declare war any round.

No more interceptions in civ4: And if an AI declares (all units get taken out of your borders), the president surely can defend our nation! This is just about declaring yourself (I know you understood, Maniac, but maybe not everybody did...) If you mean e.g. there're 2 settlers guarded by a lonely bowman and you wanna declare to get them, the persident should rest the game until the polls are done! Declaring war is a big thing with a lot of consequences and since this is a game of DEMOCRACY everybody should have the chance to raise his/her voice before it comes to that...

You're right: It forces the president to wait for the poll-outcome but that's just fair IMHO.

 

[admiral-bell]

Ivc. Governors may not be impeached.

-the Wolf

Ummm... why not?

 

[Armed_Maniac]

No more interceptions in civ4: And if an AI declares (all units get taken out of your borders), the president surely can defend our nation! This is just about declaring yourself (I know you understood, Maniac, but maybe not everybody did...) If you mean e.g. there're 2 settlers guarded by a lonely bowman and you wanna declare to get them, the persident should rest the game until the polls are done! Declaring war is a big thing with a lot of consequences and since this is a game of DEMOCRACY everybody should have the chance to raise his/her voice before it comes to that...

You're right: It forces the president to wait for the poll-outcome but that's just fair IMHO.

Yes, they are removed from our borders, and it does give time for polls to get conclusives results... but interception could be capturing an enemy city before it build a key element... wether it be a wounder, a spaceship part, or even a nuke. It also lets us intercept units not in our borders but close to them, though only a limited number of people get to vote... Anyways, both sides should be taken in consideration.

 

[Stilgar08]

Yes, they are removed from our borders, and it does give time for polls to get conclusives results... but interception could be capturing an enemy city before it build a key element... wether it be a wounder, a spaceship part, or even a nuke. It also lets us intercept units not in our borders but close to them, though only a limited number of people get to vote... Anyways, both sides should be taken in consideration.

Nevertheless you can choose to attack and therefore COULD put the game on hold for a poll... I agree that only a limited no. will get to vote but as long as a vote is done and people at least had a true (!!) chance to vote, I'm a happy guy!

 

[Blkbird]

Why are navel units under the control of the President, but air units under the control of the Minister of War?

 

[Alphawolf]

Why are navel units under the control of the President, but air units under the control of the Minister of War?

Because air units are strictly military and navel units can be used in non military purposes. Also I try to separate the powers when possible. This is a rather old version, the one in the Citizens is a newer one and I'm putting a brand new one up tomorrow.

-the Wolf