Bombers definitely kill, that's how we recaptured SCI from BABE way back when, with Infantry and Bombers. We had no Marines then.
questions for 239
- Thread starter AutomatedTeller
- Start date
AutomatedTeller
Frequent poster
Probably preparing for BABE land and trying to win the game. or for filling our land 
I've attached a screenshot.
Couple of things:
1) We are equal to SABER in MA (73 each) and have more than FREE (65). SABER has 30 more mechs than us, as does FREE.
2) As I see it, we have to cover The Bayou, The Pier, The New Yard and 2 mountain tiles. At least they can't build a town on a mountain tile.
My thoughts:
- Run plane based EWS around SCI and the east side of the island.
- Assuming nothing bad shows up, blow up the 1 destroyer near our task force
- Bomb SABER ships that are vulnerable.
- Build a couple more radar towers
Send the Jets in the mountain up on CAP, put two SAMS in each of The Bayou, The Pier and The New Yard.
We can bring 12 units from SCI to the mainland if we want - it's possible all this is an elaborate ruse to bring us away from SCI.
Builds:
We have 1900 gold. We will have 5 more MA next turn. We could build more MA, mobile sams or boats. Another option might be to build some cruise missiles - a cruise missile can kill a regular boat on itself or red-line a non-regular one, plus they can be used against landed units.
We could build 10-17 of them - I'd have to think about how to do it.
I've attached a screenshot.
Couple of things:
1) We are equal to SABER in MA (73 each) and have more than FREE (65). SABER has 30 more mechs than us, as does FREE.
2) As I see it, we have to cover The Bayou, The Pier, The New Yard and 2 mountain tiles. At least they can't build a town on a mountain tile.
My thoughts:
- Run plane based EWS around SCI and the east side of the island.
- Assuming nothing bad shows up, blow up the 1 destroyer near our task force
- Bomb SABER ships that are vulnerable.
- Build a couple more radar towers
Send the Jets in the mountain up on CAP, put two SAMS in each of The Bayou, The Pier and The New Yard.
We can bring 12 units from SCI to the mainland if we want - it's possible all this is an elaborate ruse to bring us away from SCI.
Builds:
We have 1900 gold. We will have 5 more MA next turn. We could build more MA, mobile sams or boats. Another option might be to build some cruise missiles - a cruise missile can kill a regular boat on itself or red-line a non-regular one, plus they can be used against landed units.
We could build 10-17 of them - I'd have to think about how to do it.
Attachments
donsig
Low level intermediary
If there are no other transports or carriers in range I figured SABER could bring 12 marines and 8 bombers at most, so I suggested a garrison of 21 as a fail safe number. Even with 21 units in those cities there are 31 left without drafting to cover the mountains (where 26 should be adequate if bombers can't kill any). If we just use 13 as our garrison for three cities and two mountains that's only 65 units leaving 32. Where would we put the these anyway? Cover two grass tiles? Would they be subject to bombing from the carriers then?
Yilar
Prince
Yes, but they only do 3 hp dmg on a 4hp vet unit they don't kill 
. You may have been able to capture the SCI island from Babe using bombers, but then you bombed the same unit multiple times! 12 bombers bomb vet 12 units = 12 injured units, 0 dead units 
. You may have been able to capture the SCI island from Babe using bombers, but then you bombed the same unit multiple times! 12 bombers bomb vet 12 units = 12 injured units, 0 dead units AutomatedTeller
Frequent poster
Bombers can only do 3 HP damage - 1 bomber can't kill a regular unit, but can kill a regular or conscript unit.
The New Yard is most vulnerable, I think. It's not a metro, we have no ships over there either.
The New Yard is most vulnerable, I think. It's not a metro, we have no ships over there either.
donsig
Low level intermediary
It seems we have enough on the mainland for now so I would leave SCI as it is. Can we still ship chain units up there?
Are we planning on doing a full EWS recon? I think we should and then post a screenie.
I'm wondering if we shouldn't hold off on spending gold for now. What about saving up and turning research back on if no one lands in a few turns?
So far all that's happened is SABER eliminated our obsolete navy allowing us to spend our support gold on more armor. If we want to win we not only have to survive any invasions we have to race to space before SABER or FREE gets the jump on the other.
AutomatedTeller
Frequent poster
I've attached the results of sweeps around SCI and the west of of our island.
A couple more things:
we have 1530 gold and two sets of pollution.
I want to whack the cruiser and the destroyer to our north with bombers - all our bombers are at the Institute, which is probably a mistake - i wish I'd left some on SCI for sinking wounded SABER ships.
A couple more things:
we have 1530 gold and two sets of pollution.
I want to whack the cruiser and the destroyer to our north with bombers - all our bombers are at the Institute, which is probably a mistake - i wish I'd left some on SCI for sinking wounded SABER ships.
Attachments
AutomatedTeller
Frequent poster
I've also run some tests of cruise missiles on a stack like what SABER has. They are very, very effective - more important, it seems that 1/4 carriers still cycle to the top before vet transports.
So, conceivably, after they land, we could take out 2 carriers, 4 cruisers and a destroyer with as few as 11 cruise missiles, then much of the stack of transports with bombers.
11 cruise missiles is 660 shields - 2 carriers with 8 fighters/bombers, 4 cruisers and a destroyer is 2*160+400 = 1120 + 640 + 120 = 1900 shields - if we can get all the transports, that's 2700 shields, which is nice revenge for their opening salvo.
And, if the assault goes badly, those cruise missiles can kill land units as well.
So, conceivably, after they land, we could take out 2 carriers, 4 cruisers and a destroyer with as few as 11 cruise missiles, then much of the stack of transports with bombers.
11 cruise missiles is 660 shields - 2 carriers with 8 fighters/bombers, 4 cruisers and a destroyer is 2*160+400 = 1120 + 640 + 120 = 1900 shields - if we can get all the transports, that's 2700 shields, which is nice revenge for their opening salvo.
And, if the assault goes badly, those cruise missiles can kill land units as well.
General_W
Councilor & Merlot Noble
hmm - cruise missiles are a very interesting idea!
However - for the same 660 shields, we could build 6.6 Submarines.
The subs have a greater range than the Cruise Missiles (thanks to Magellan), can specifically target the transports, and are reusable!
Only downside is that we can't redeploy them to different areas as rapidly... but we should at least build subs in the areas that are close to Saber's ship stacks anyway. imo.
I'd like to propose that any naval towns build subs instead of Cruise Missiles.
For the inland towns, some Cruise Missiles sound great.
Thanks for posting all this great info and ideas here AutoTeller - you're doing The Council proud!
However - for the same 660 shields, we could build 6.6 Submarines.
The subs have a greater range than the Cruise Missiles (thanks to Magellan), can specifically target the transports, and are reusable!
Only downside is that we can't redeploy them to different areas as rapidly... but we should at least build subs in the areas that are close to Saber's ship stacks anyway. imo.
I'd like to propose that any naval towns build subs instead of Cruise Missiles.
For the inland towns, some Cruise Missiles sound great.
Thanks for posting all this great info and ideas here AutoTeller - you're doing The Council proud!
But didn't we determine that the mobile SAMs loaded on those transports will shred the bombers?
AutomatedTeller
Frequent poster
well, that's assuming that they land all the mobile sams and it's hard for me to believe that they wouldn't land all the mobiles sams.
and my math was curiously wrong - it would take at least 14 cruises missiles to kill all those ships, but it's possible to kill the carriers with fewer than 14.
To me, the big thing is that, in this particular case, cruise missiles can also be used to kill land units if we need them to and subs cannot.
and my math was curiously wrong - it would take at least 14 cruises missiles to kill all those ships, but it's possible to kill the carriers with fewer than 14.
To me, the big thing is that, in this particular case, cruise missiles can also be used to kill land units if we need them to and subs cannot.
I had a look at the save last night. For the first time in this game 
Some ideas (I haven't ready through all here, so it might already be covered by the more skilled players..) :
Radar Towers - we need a few near the possible landing spots.
SCI - Is overprotected. I'd rather lose SCI than SABER gaining foothold on our mainlands...
Bombers - could we use a few more?
Same with MechInfs - we did draft last turn right?
No saving the cash now...donsig...who can spend when SABER has nicked your wallet?
Some ideas (I haven't ready through all here, so it might already be covered by the more skilled players..) :
Radar Towers - we need a few near the possible landing spots.
SCI - Is overprotected. I'd rather lose SCI than SABER gaining foothold on our mainlands...
Bombers - could we use a few more?
Same with MechInfs - we did draft last turn right?
No saving the cash now...donsig...who can spend when SABER has nicked your wallet?
AutomatedTeller
Frequent poster
problem with losing SCI is that it is our only source of rubber, which we need to build one spaceship part (and Modern armors)
Yes, I know that, but if we lose most of our mainland we have no chance to ever reclaim SCI.
donsig
Low level intermediary
We don't seem to be in danger of losing anything on the mainland so I would not weaken SCI. There are still 8 SABER (and 7 FREE) transports unaccounted for. We can surely prevent SABER from taking any cities on their next turn. I'm not opposed to spending the money now (also not opposed to drafting big time) but unless someone lands soon we should really consider researching again. If we are going to spend some gold we should look into AT's idea of using cruise missiles. Remember how long SABER jockeyed for position before landing on BABEland? If they don't land next turn then whatever cruise missiles we rush now would have a shot at loaded transports.
I really like the idea of launching a few missiles. 
Yilar
Prince
I strongly disagree, we are still in need of more MA, we don't need to kill "useless" boats. We don't even know if they will be in range, and cruise missles give no guarantee of full dmg, we could shoot 11 cruises at the boat stack and kill maybe 2 boats, and then watch them flee the following turn.
Btw, it doesn't matter if we lose rubber. We can demand it from FREE or conquer their rubber island south of us when we need it.
I would knock out the cruiser(bombers) and the destroyer(arti and then battleship (elite battleship would be nice)) first, and then defend the 3 cities in trouble and the 2 mountain tiles, while planting 2-3 radar towers (maybe on the mountains?)
donsig
Low level intermediary
We have three cities that can build one turn cruise missiles (The Gulag, The Treasury and The Chamber).
The Institute and The Arboretum can complete missiles next turn wasting 7 and 4 shields respectively.
We can rush missiles in the following cities (along with cost):
The Squeeze (56g)
The Shallows (120g)
The Marina (168g)
The Phoenix (188g)
The Greenhouse (236g)
(Total of 768g)
All other cities on the mainland have empty shield boxes. The Silo would be 14 shields short of a one turn missile; The Aerie 18 short and The Admiralty 22 short. We could consider drafting and then disbanding mech infantry in these three cities for 27 shields each. (We could also do this in some of the cities listed above saving 108g each time.)
There's 14 cruise missiles right there for 768g and 3 drafted mech inf (or 332g and 7 drafted mech inf).
There are also nine cities with empty bins where we could build cruisemissiles by drafting a mech inf, disbanding there and rushing for 132g. These cities are: The Meeting Room, The Pier, The Red Tape, The New Yard, The Ways, The Nursery, Chamsuri's Cove, The Dislodged and The Beach. (Could also disband two drafted mech inf and maybe complete without rushing in some cases.)
We can draft 22 units this turn.
So we have many ways to make a bunch of cruise missiles.
Our two one tile islands are not garrisoned. This seems dangerous.
C'mon Yilar, you told us we'd be invinceable with 50 armor. We have 73. If the boats aren't in range next turn then they wouldn't have landed anything. If they did land we can use the missiles on the units that landed. If they didn't land and are still in range then we have a shot at sinking loaded transports or their carriers. If we make enough missiles (and SABER doesn't land) it may be worth our while to risk bombing runs on that ship stack after hitting it with missiles.
If FREE is about to double cross us then they won't give us rubber. I also don't see how we will conquer anything overseas while SABER and FREE have all those useless boats and we have none.
The Institute and The Arboretum can complete missiles next turn wasting 7 and 4 shields respectively.
We can rush missiles in the following cities (along with cost):
The Squeeze (56g)
The Shallows (120g)
The Marina (168g)
The Phoenix (188g)
The Greenhouse (236g)
(Total of 768g)
All other cities on the mainland have empty shield boxes. The Silo would be 14 shields short of a one turn missile; The Aerie 18 short and The Admiralty 22 short. We could consider drafting and then disbanding mech infantry in these three cities for 27 shields each. (We could also do this in some of the cities listed above saving 108g each time.)
There's 14 cruise missiles right there for 768g and 3 drafted mech inf (or 332g and 7 drafted mech inf).
There are also nine cities with empty bins where we could build cruisemissiles by drafting a mech inf, disbanding there and rushing for 132g. These cities are: The Meeting Room, The Pier, The Red Tape, The New Yard, The Ways, The Nursery, Chamsuri's Cove, The Dislodged and The Beach. (Could also disband two drafted mech inf and maybe complete without rushing in some cases.)
We can draft 22 units this turn.
So we have many ways to make a bunch of cruise missiles.
Our two one tile islands are not garrisoned. This seems dangerous.
C'mon Yilar, you told us we'd be invinceable with 50 armor. We have 73. If the boats aren't in range next turn then they wouldn't have landed anything. If they did land we can use the missiles on the units that landed. If they didn't land and are still in range then we have a shot at sinking loaded transports or their carriers. If we make enough missiles (and SABER doesn't land) it may be worth our while to risk bombing runs on that ship stack after hitting it with missiles.
If FREE is about to double cross us then they won't give us rubber. I also don't see how we will conquer anything overseas while SABER and FREE have all those useless boats and we have none.
donsig
Low level intermediary
We do not have that improvement in the three cities threatened this turn.
