Questions for gun owners, afficianados, and those curios.

batteryacid said:
Crime statistics in England after the handgun restrictions clearly showed a decrease in homicide, car theft, domestic burglary by 27%, so YES
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Got cite? I've seen claims on both sides regarding English crime stats.

batteryacid said:
Virtually all guns in the US black marked are first legally purchased and enter afterwards the black market, so you WILL make the access for average criminals to guns harder.
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"Harder" sure. But not significantly hard enough to warrant disarming the entire law-abiding population, and in any case a hundred million firearms don't go away overnight.
 
Was this an under-handed way of talking about your dislike of guns.

I agree with the other posters who said the likelihood of you doing anything harmful to yourself was low. However, its effing stupid to bite a bullet, anyways.

I'm from down south. The town next to mine has a mandatory gun in every home law. Crime is nil, essentially. My town didn't have that, and we had fun times with a gang and the monthly murder.

If I could carry a gun legally in DC, I would. Sadly, they banned them in DC. Right now, DC is having a crime wave, and people are being murdered for no apparent reason (other than robbery) at a very high rate. The citizenry has no way to defend itself. Not even the government buildings area are secure at night (we have had multiple assaults and rapes on the National Mall in the last few weeks).
 
To batteryacid: Let's not turn this into another gun ban thread as there are others that will prove you wrong if you discuss there. Do some research before your English social experiment theory brings down this thread. English studies tend to pad their results to keep their failures justified.

To OP: There is nothing wrong with owning commercially available goods.
 
Sorry if I am a bit over motivated on this issue , but I am a bit driven by incidents in my environment:

1 Suicides and 2 lethal accidents during my duty in the army

1 hunter that shot the neighbour of my friend while my friend was one step close to him

1 confused school kid that threatened a teacher with the gun of his father (thank god nothing serious happened there )

I had no incidents with robbers or home invaders so far, as they are very rare where I live- perehaps you can not understand my point of view a bit better

@blazer 6: I can´t help when you don´t trust governement statistics
@ Igloodude: According to your logics my country (Austria) would be a safer place to live, if people get easier access to guns- comparison of our crime and homicide statistics to US crime statistics should even convince you a bit about my point of view
 
The way statistics work with English sources are that they are grouped differently from American sources. There are exclusions and other are included which makes the numbers game different.
 
JerichoHill said:
Was this an under-handed way of talking about your dislike of guns.

I agree with the other posters who said the likelihood of you doing anything harmful to yourself was low. However, its effing stupid to bite a bullet, anyways.

I'm from down south. The town next to mine has a mandatory gun in every home law. Crime is nil, essentially. My town didn't have that, and we had fun times with a gang and the monthly murder.

If I could carry a gun legally in DC, I would. Sadly, they banned them in DC. Right now, DC is having a crime wave, and people are being murdered for no apparent reason (other than robbery) at a very high rate. The citizenry has no way to defend itself. Not even the government buildings area are secure at night (we have had multiple assaults and rapes on the National Mall in the last few weeks).
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No Jericho. It wasn't an underhanded way of talking about my dislike of guns. I was actually that stuipid.

If crime is already rampant in a region I can see how a law reqiring homeowners to bear guns would deter robberys a bit. I also see how it would hurt those in the surrounding region who haven't adopted the law. Sounds kinda stuipid to me though, like a sort of regressive tax, who pays for this? the state? does this state produce alot of handguns? Does the US need another 200 million handguns on the market forced upon those who don't want guns?

I am sorry you live in a crime ridden city, but rather than making it manditory for everyone to use guns, wouldn't it make more sense to provide some sort of carrot stick approach to get more of them off the streets? As for the rapes, I'm sure a good can of mace will sufficently deter a single attacker.
 
1) Very unlikely unless you chewed the primer.

2) What a terrible thought. I love my guns and my guns love me. I just got a new carbine that takes a 100 round magazine. I have a couple of the 100 rounders and one 50 rounder. Come the revolution, I'll be ready.
 
Mulholland said:
I am sorry you live in a crime ridden city, but rather than making it manditory for everyone to use guns, wouldn't it make more sense to provide some sort of carrot stick approach to get more of them off the streets? As for the rapes, I'm sure a good can of mace will sufficently deter a single attacker.
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Deciding to attack an armed target is the carrot or stick approach. The target might kill you if you failed to attack him or you give up crime.

Never assume that any one deterrent will work.
 
batteryacid said:
So, with less guns around the world is going to be more dangerous? So with zero guns around, it must look like hell on earth....:confused:

With less guns around, illegal gun prices will go up, so the average criminal will have less access to guns. You can never fully prevent murder by a determined killer as you described, but you can prevent murder in the other cases I wrote, where the average gun owner has a bad day and ticks out- there IS a big difference in survival chances if you are attacked by your jealous partner with a knife or a gun.
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Think of it this way:

If nuclear weapons were never developed, we would not live under the shadow of a nuclear war. However, they were developed and they are being developed by more minor nations (Iran and North Korea), so now they are not in the hands of just a few superpowers, but in the hands of a many smaller nations.

If you were to go back to when only the U.S. and the USSR had nukes, convince both nations to disarm and destroy nukes (not real likely considering the fact that we were at odds with each other and feared each other), then the world would be a much safer place. No one has nukes. No need for fear.

If today, you were to convince the world's most powerful to destory the weapons, and Iran was successful, well, they are a natural enemy of Israel. You could imagine what could happen.

With the detterent of other nations having the weapons however, Iran has to think twice about making a first strike.

As far as guns go, if you could avoid the original arms buildup amongst criminals, then ban them, then yes, we could wipe out crime. However, if only the criminal element has guns, and there is no detterrent, you are going to see a rash of violence around the country.
 
How about the stick being stiffer sentances for carring a gun, and the carrot being trading you gun for some sort of redeemable cupon for anything other than guns and ammo?
 
saleg37 said:
Think of it this way:
As far as guns go, if you could avoid the original arms buildup amongst criminals, then ban them, then yes, we could wipe out crime. However, if only the criminal element has guns, and there is no detterrent, you are going to see a rash of violence around the country.
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That's what the cops are for.
 
Let's cut to the chase. All of these gun threads are pretty much people opposed to gun rights trying to convince those who support gun rights that they are wrong. To save some time...

You can take my guns when you pry them from my cold, dead hands. Have a nice day. :)
 
VRWCAgent said:
Let's cut to the chase. All of these gun threads are pretty much people opposed to gun rights trying to convince those who support gun rights that they are wrong. To save some time...

You can take my guns when you pry them from my cold, dead hands. Have a nice day. :)
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I'm not trying to take your gun from you there there big boy:D I'm trying to convey the contradiction in which gun owners in some countries have more rights than recreational drug users. Unjust, I say! Long live pacifist hippies!
Nice quote btw and I wouldn't take you up on it.
 
Mulholland said:
How about the stick being stiffer sentances for carring a gun, and the carrot being trading you gun for some sort of redeemable cupon for anything other than guns and ammo?
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Both are being tried in various places in the US. The stiffer sentences doesn't seem to do much, presumably because (as discussed in OT in other areas) criminals just don't think they'll get caught. Gun buybacks are generally seen as a "feel-good" measure that really don't impact gun homicide, suicide, or accident rates - criminals don't turn in guns that they're going to use, and irresponsible people don't turn in guns because they're irresponsible in the first place.
 
Mulholland said:
I'm not trying to take your gun from you there there big boy:D I'm trying to convey the contradiction in which gun owners in some countries have more rights than recreational drug users. Unjust, I say! Long live pacifist hippies!
Nice quote btw and I wouldn't take you up on it.
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Gun owners haven't committed any moral wrong any more than drug users have. I don't think they deserve more rights than recreational drug users, but certainly not less, either.
 
Mulholland said:
Nice quote btw and I wouldn't take you up on it.
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The first time I became away of that quote was while watching Red Dawn for the first time. One of the evil invaders reached down and took a pistol out of a man's hand. In the background right behind the dead man was his pickup which had a bumper sticker with that phrase. At least I think that's what it was...

WOLVERINES!!!
 
I think there should be more free trade in arms. Not just domestically, but also internationally. Though arms would end up in the hands of people we don't like, it would give everybody a fighting chance, including some people who may not get the help of the powder blue helmets.

Would you mug a guy if you know he could be holding a sawn-off shotgun under his coat? With responsibility of self-protection handed over to citizens, you could give the police less power, ending up with more liberty in the end.

I also think drugs should be legalized. It's the user's responsibility to be careful with that stuff.
 
I dunno what would work to curb gun violence. I just have some serious doubts about laws that Jerhico-Hill was talking about such as requiring homeowners to posess gun. Toronto is having quite a wave of gun crime right now and The Federal, Provincial, City Govenment, and community groups are all implemanting strategies to curb this disturbing trend. It'll be interestiing to see how it all shakes out five yers down the road.

Are there any examples of stratagies that have resulted in a proper decrease in gun crime. Perhaps the best cure for this ill is meaningful economic development.
 
Mulholland,

I gave an exampe, in real-life, about Kennesaw. What is to doubt about that? In DC, they banned handguns, and crime is STILL rampant.
Unless you can tell me why economic theory is severely flawed here, what argument can you proffer up to counter it? What doubts? Tell me them and I'll tell you how they're handled! Don't be Vauge!

If you raise the cost of committing a crime (ie, greater chance that the target will shoot you), you naturally LOWER the incidence. Supply and Demand, that's all this is.

Secondly, "meaningful?" How about just economic development, education, opportunity?

Thirdly, here is a strategy for reducing gun crime. Legalize drugs. Gun violence is highly linked to gang activity, and gang activity is highly linked to drug distribution, turf wars, et al.

Fourthly, banning guns does nothing to prevent gun crime except ensuring that law abiding citizens do not have guns.

In the US we have devolved into a nanny culture. That's a weakness.
 
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