Quick Answers / 'Newbie' Questions

[EMan]

Eman, whats your source of information that fortified units receive ANY defensive bonus for being fortified? The manual certainly doesn't say that.

BTW I have no idea what "(viz. 0.75)" means.

If you look in the Civilopedia (Map Screen, top left, middle button) under Defender Combat Bonus, you will see the 25% bonus for fortified units. You will also find the Fortification Bonus if you look at the Combat Calculator utility programs here on CFC Forums.

For example, if your defender has a defensive value of 3 (e.g. Pikeman), you will get a fortification bonus of 25% of 3 = 0.75.

BTW, viz means To wit; that is; namely.

 

[TruePurple]

Using the combat calculator in civassit, it doesnt work. It gives no information.

In civilpoedia I found reference to a "fortification bonus" but that was under "structural bonuses" or something like that. The manual calls fortifying unit also sleeping unit etc.

Can someone confirm or deny Emans assertion? Is it just from this that you believe sleeping a unit gives a defensive bonus or something else as well?

 

[Othniel]

Eman is right.

If by sleeping unit, you mean hitting the space bar to end that unit's turn (as opposed to hitting the "f" key, which fortifies the unit), then the unit gets no defensive bonus. The bonus occurs only when the unit is fortified.

 

[Tone]

Eman, whats your source of information that fortified units receive ANY defensive bonus for being fortified? The manual certainly doesn't say that.

There is plenty that the manual doesn't say! I'd advise you not to use that as your only reference.

If you look in the Civilopedia (Map Screen, top left, middle button) under Defender Combat Bonus, you will see the 25% bonus for fortified units. You will also find the Fortification Bonus if you look at the Combat Calculator utility programs here on CFC Forums.

In civilpoedia I found reference to a "fortification bonus" but that was under "structural bonuses" or something like that. The manual calls fortifying unit also sleeping unit etc.

Can someone confirm or deny Emans assertion?

I'll second Othniel's confirmation. (In fact I would be reluctant to doubt any post made by EMan given the depth of knowledge that he has about the game and the accuracy of his previous posts, but I guess that that's a different issue.) I'll also post a screenie of the page that EMan is refering to giving the proof that you require:

Spoiler defender combat bonus page :

Using the combat calculator in civassit, it doesnt work. It gives no information.

It's fine when I use it but it's not the easiest to use or the most versatile. As EMan says though, there are plenty of other combat calculators that you can download so you may want to visit the C&C Utilities forum and see what's there. I don't use them often but when I do this is one that I like as I can analyse situations before the units are in position to attack/defend.

 

[Aceman101]

I've been noticing something ever since I got C3C. That is, I hardly ever loose resources. I mean, when they get "Exhausted". The only resources I lost were Saltpeter and Iron. Were the exhaustion percentages decreased in C3C?

 

[Snarkhunter]

Is the fortress/barricade benefit cumulative, or does barricade replace fortress? (I.e., do you get +150% or just 100%?)

 

[Aceman101]

IIRC, Fortress gives +50% defense bonus. It is further increased to +100% if the barricade is built on top of the fortress.

 

[TruePurple]

Tone, the post you quoted shows you I saw that very page already, was a waste of time to post that pic. But as I said that civilopedia page isn't proof to me because of the reason I said. You haven't explained why its under heading of structural bonus either.

But if you say Eman is very knowledgable about the game and that you independently know of this 25% bonus for sleeping, thats mostly enough.

But let me ask this, how can any of you know of it? A 25% bonus is hardly obvious or for that matter noticable with civ3's sometimes (or even often) wild RNG. Are you guys saying you've seen it in the code or something?

IIRC, Fortress gives +50% defense bonus. It is further increased to +100% if the barricade is built on top of the fortress.

Increased to or by? That single word makes a big difference. He wants to know if with barricade on fortress, if the defense is 150%. Your saying no its just 100% defense with both?

 

[Tone]

Tone, the post you quoted shows you I saw that very page already, was a waste of time to post that pic. But as I said that civilopedia page isn't proof to me because of the reason I said. You haven't explained why its under heading of structural bonus either.

That's because I never found it under structural bonus. I just looked for the Defender Combat Bonus as EMan had already posted. Because you were talking about a different heading it was not clear to me that you had found that page. This is why I posted the screenshot. If you found it by a different route, fine, but I'm not going to comment upon it.

How do we know that it is correct. Well personally I assume that anything in the civilopedia is correct unless told otherwise. That's good enough for me.

 

[psweetman1590]

Going back the pikeman/knight defender situation, it should be fairly obvious that fortifying gives a defensive bonus. If you have a knight and pikeman of the same experience and only one is fortified, the fortified one defends first. The game engine is set up to place the best defender at the top of the stack to defend, so this shows that fortifying one will provide a bonus, causing the (otherwise equal-strength) unit to fight first.

And for reference, fortifying is NOT sleeping. Sleeping is another word for putting a unit on sentry. This can be done by pressing the Y key, and it causes the unit to wake up and become active when another civ's units moves adjacent to it. As far as I know, it does not provide a defensive bonus.

And btw, Aceman's wording was correct. The barricade increases defense to 100%. It also expends all movement points of any units that move into the square unless it's in their cultural borders (or they have a ROP with the civ whose borders control it).

 

[TruePurple]

AGGHHH!!! Please listen Tone.

Tone, please look at your own picture! Look for words in bold print "Structural bonuses" Notice the fortified unit bonus is under that catagory. That implies its in reference to some structural bonus. Maybe from when units are in cities and not from fortified mode (which has nothing to do with structures)?

How is it "obvious" pswe?

Also, assuming your right about this bonus, does it require the unit be fortified without moving whole turn? How much do you guys know about this other then the badly worded under explained civilopedia entry?

P.S. Damn I was so going to edit the picture and circle the words there but win98 paint only does BMP. Could have made my own screen shot then tried to post large BMP pic but too much work for that.

On my pikeman/knights situation. With or without a bonus from fortifying in the game, the situation is some rounds every unit counts and I need every one of them defending in best form. If fortifying does indeed give a defensive bonus, I need my knights to be fortified just in case enemy gets through pikemen in that turn.

Is there another way to tell the game I want the pikeman to defend before the knights? (really though that should be default)

 

[Tone]

AGGHHH!!! Please listen Tone.

Tone, please look at your own picture! Look for words in bold print "Structural bonuses" Notice the fortified unit bonus is under that catagory. That implies its in reference to some structural bonus. Maybe from when units are in cities and not from fortified mode (which has nothing to do with structures)?

I'm sorry. I see it now but I thought that you were talking about the page heading. Please accept my apologies for being so stupid. Also whilst you're in the mood to humour me, perhaps you can also explain the bit in bold below as I couldn't find your reasons either.

Tone, the post you quoted shows you I saw that very page already, was a waste of time to post that pic. But as I said that civilopedia page isn't proof to me because of the reason I said.

I could find all the other defensive bonus values in the editor but not the fortification bonus. Then again maybe I missed this as well so you may want to look in there. It will not answer your question about partial movement though or the bit about structural bonus

 

[TruePurple]

Well just the structural heading thing mostly. Another possibility is that they meant for it to work like that giving a defensive bonus, but didn't implement it right. Like SGL and boosting science production in a city.

I assume you found the other defensive bonuses under "rules"? Why is everything under that grayed out and inaccessable for me?

 

[Ansar]

Do you get less points on smaller maps?

 

[EMan]

The method of scoring points is the same.

However, since there are less land/coast/sea squares compared to say a huge map, the maximum points you can score is less.

 

[psweetman1590]

How is it "obvious" pswe?

Because if you have two different units with the same defense (like the pikeman and knight) and experience - and thus the same defensive power - then it should be that the pike and knight have an equal chance of defending first in an oncoming attack, as the game engine places the best defender at the top of the stack. However, you'll find that if you fortify one and not the other, the fortified one will defend first, always. Thus, it can be inferred that fortifying adds a bonus to a units defense.

Well, I considered it obvious... you may consider it whatever you like, but I doubt one could come up with an alternative line of reasoning that debunks my conclusion.

 

[cometflash]

I think the knight goes first, because it has extra movement, otherwise the pikeman would go first, as they are a defender, not like the knight (an offensive unit).

 

[Leowind]

REsearched Smart Weapons near the end of my most recent game, and noticed two new buttons for stealth aircraft: precision bombing and precision strikes. The civilopedia only mentions precision strikes. I tried both a time or two and didn't see that they did anything differently than regular bombing, and would not allow bombing units outside a city. I did not experiment extensively at the time as I was winning by space race already in a few turns, so was only mopping up the Celts and gaining a few extra points. So, for my next game, how does precision bombing/strikes work differently than regular bombing, and what difference is there between precision strikes and precision bombing?
Thanks,

 

[Walliard]

Precision attacks don't reduce poplulation the way normal bombarding does, unless there are no improvements left in the city. And while I'm not certain(never actually used Stealth myself), I would assume the only difference between precision bombing and precision strikes is that bombing = bombers and strikes = fighters.

 

[Aceman101]

Increased to or by? That single word makes a big difference. He wants to know if with barricade on fortress, if the defense is 150%. Your saying no its just 100% defense with both?

I'll just restate my message.

IIRC, Fortress gives +50% defense bonus. It is further increased to +100% if the barricade is built on top of the fortress.

If I say to, I mean to. If I say by, I mean by. It's the principle of languages.

Sorry if that sounded a bit aggressive. I didn't mean it to be that way. Just pointing out the facts.