Quick Answers / 'Newbie' Questions

[Padma]

I think you get to the point where the Firaxis analyst/programmer knows about the bug/exploit but it's too complex or time-consuming (viz. uneconomical) to make the program changes.

Bingo! Give the man a cigar!

There is no publicly available written list of what the AI is programmed to do or not do! So, how do we know what the AI can do?

Over the years, we've had some interesting talks with Firaxis, and have learned some things. For instance:

• The AI Army "bug" is indeed a defect in the code. IIRC, it was introduced after beta testing, or we testers would certainly have caught it.
• The AI knowing the entire map is a "cheat" that was deliberately programmed in (or, at least, not programmed out) to give the AI a bit of "help". Of course, if you know the AI knows this, you can manipulate the AI.
• The turn sequence is much more complex than the average player realizes. It is not a simple "I do everything, then the AI does everything". A search of the forums might turn up some discussion about this. I don't *think* the AI can rush a defender outside the correct sequence, although it may seem like it to the human player.
• Trade costs between the AI are specifically-coded bonuses (or "maluses" (= negative bonuses)) to give the player more of a challenge at higher levels, and an easier time of it on lower levels.
• At no time does the AI check to see if the Civ involved in negotiation is human, except to determine things like trade bonuses. E.g., it checks its internal table of reputations, attitudes, etc. up front for all negotiations, whether player <--> AI, or AI <--> AI, and afterwards only checks if the other side is human in specific situations, like for trade bonuses. So you get the same response as any AI civ would get, if it were in the same circumstance.

Hope this helps.

 

[Lord Emsworth]

Trade with other AI's at more equitable rates than with human (not sure about this one)

This happens, but is part of what makes the difference in difficulties IIRC.

 

[norbusan]

Hi all!
After long time I started again to play CivIII-PTW but have the following problem: I saved the multiplayer game but loading it gives me only a single player game.

How do I save a multiplayer game such that I can restart a multiplayer game, is this possible?

Thanks and all the best

Norbert

 

[rysingsun]

E.g., it checks its internal table of reputations, attitudes, etc. up front for all negotiations, whether player <--> AI, or AI <--> AI...

Wow. After years of speculating on this matter, you are the first that I've read here who actually claims that it is known with certainty that ai reputation affects its dealings with other ai. I have long assumed this to be true though could not prove it. But it has implications on strategy. Specifically early alliances, expensive though they are, get the ai's off to a quick start on a bad reputation and therefore a quick start to always being at war with each other.

 

[Whoman69]

Well I'm a noobie so I guess this is the place for me. The first question I have is about points. Its not mentioned in the Instruction manual nor on the fanatics website that I can see. How are they calculated?

My second question deals with the tech tree and units list. The resource list for civ fanatics lists what is needed for various resources and in turn what is needed for new units while the wonders list has what is needed for them. What techs should be avoided as not really leading into anything? The science adviser isn't really of much help. I also found out the Darwins wonder is worthless as it built two techs that I had been avoiding the whole game and gave me nothing of worth. What a waste.

 

[Aabraxan]

Welcome to CFC, Whoman69!

Well I'm a noobie so I guess this is the place for me. The first question I have is about points. Its not mentioned in the Instruction manual nor on the fanatics website that I can see. How are they calculated?

I don't ever play for score, so the only thing I know to tell you is that there's an article by Sir Pleb here. Perhaps that will be of some help.

My second question deals with the tech tree and units list. The resource list for civ fanatics lists what is needed for various resources and in turn what is needed for new units while the wonders list has what is needed for them. What techs should be avoided as not really leading into anything? The science adviser isn't really of much help. I also found out the Darwins wonder is worthless as it built two techs that I had been avoiding the whole game and gave me nothing of worth. What a waste.

First of all, if you're talking about Darwin's Theory of Evolution, it's far from worthless. It gives you two free techs, and it will give you two that you pick! (assuming, of course, that you have the prerequisites). Once the ToE is completed, it automatically gives you whatever you're working on. Then, once your advisor tells you that you've got that tech, go to the Big Picture and pick the next tech that you want.

AS far as what techs to avoid as not leading to anything, that's going to depend a lot on your difficulty level and chosen victory condition. With that said, look at the tech tree. Any tech that has the little circle & slash on it is an optional tech and not required to advance to the next age. Anything without the circle & slash is required.

Hope that helps.

 

[Rodrig0]

Whoman69

Theory of Evolution is along with Hoover Damn, the two best wonders in the Industrial Age. Yoy just need to know how it works, it means: after ToE is complete, it gives you the tech you were already researching, then a second tech, both instantly and for free. What most people do is move the tech slider (where you set how much money goes to science/entertainment/treasury) so their current tech will be finished one turn earlier than ToE, then set research to zero, and beeline for the two techs they want. Example:

You are researching Replaceables. It will be finished in 7 turns, and ToE will be finished in 5. You adjust the slider so Replaeables can be done in 4 turns. If you can't, then set research to zero. Whatever you spent on Replaceables will be wasted. But if you could actually research Replaceable in 4 turns, then when science advisor asks what should we research next, beeline to Electronics (this is, go straigt to Electronics, this will select any techs necesary for that, in this case Atomic Theory and Electronics). The next turn ToE is complete and Science advisor says: we have researched Atomic, what next? And electronics is auto selected. Say yes and again, we have researched Electronics, then chose whatever else you want to reseach, readjust science slider, and voila! Got two expensive techs for free. And this path also leaves you ready to build Hoover Damn, preferably in the city where ToE was built, as it might have been one of your core cities.

I have two questions:

Is there a corruption limit in Communism? Like, I want to build a market in a new city... should I work the land for max food and make civil engineers? Or should I go for max shileds and have everyone working? I could have 6 workers producing nothing but food, and 6 engs = 12 shileds uncorrupted. But I could also have 12 workers on mined/rroaded grassland, which is 24 shileds, minus % corruption = ? If corruption can be above 50% then definitely I should favor engineers, but if not, then max shields will be better.

Is money from tourism split between science/lux, Or does it goes straight to the treasury? I want to build Newton's, so I should build it in the city which produces the most gold.. But some cities have old wonders which also give money from tourism. Is this gold going to be used for science too?

 

[sercer88]

I have two questions:

Is there a corruption limit in Communism? Like, I want to build a market in a new city... should I work the land for max food and make civil engineers? Or should I go for max shileds and have everyone working? I could have 6 workers producing nothing but food, and 6 engs = 12 shileds uncorrupted. But I could also have 12 workers on mined/rroaded grassland, which is 24 shileds, minus % corruption = ? If corruption can be above 50% then definitely I should favor engineers, but if not, then max shields will be better.

Um, I don't know what you mean by the question...but you kind of answered the second part yourself: the mined and railroaded is better...if you're already at max size...plus, you can get factories pretty soon, that will really boost your base production (shields provided by citizens working the tiles) while CE's do not add to your base production...

Is money from tourism split between science/lux, Or does it goes straight to the treasury? I want to build Newton's, so I should build it in the city which produces the most gold.. But some cities have old wonders which also give money from tourism. Is this gold going to be used for science too?

Tourism money is added to base commerce: so it does go through all of the multipliers of the sliders, libraries, markets...etc. (Taxmen and Scientists, meanwhile, do not add to the base tax or science...they just add on.)

 

[Rodrig0]

What I meant for Communism, is like... you can have up to 95% corruption in Republic. so 5% of 24 shields = 1.2 shields! Then no doubt CE are better. But may Communism have corruption above 50% in the worst case? I'd like to know this before wasting worker time mining everything, just to find that city X has 55% corruption, in which case it would have been better to irrigate everything and make CE.

About commerce, when I sorted my cities by commerce, some gave lots of gpt, but that was because some were producing just wealth... after swiching all to build units, they sorted differently. Now I know that wealth goes only to treasury, but I was unsure about tourism.

 

[EMan]

Thanks to Lord Emsworth & Padma for some enlightening and thought-provoking comments.

...Ah, I see. I think I simply forgot to mention that the flaws can be actively used to the player's advantage. (I believe that I even said that in the HoF thread) With this slightly amended definition I would say that your situation is not exploitive at all, simply because you can not actively make stuff like that happen. It is just chance...

In the HOF PTW smaller map, higher level, conquest victories, boogaboo extensively demonstrated that you could lure the AI's defenders (usually warriors) out of a city with an Aztec warrior used as "bait". After their warriors came out of the city, your pack of Aztec warriors could capture the AI's city and quite likely eliminate that AI. Is this an exploit or sound strategy.........knowing that the AI will essentially under-defend its city?

Bingo! Give the man a cigar!
...

Thanks, it has my name on it.

...I don't *think* the AI can rush a defender outside the correct sequence, although it may seem like it to the human player.

Here's an example of what I was thinking of:
Sometimes you will attack a size 2 city......and will find during the attack that the AI will pop-rush a defender, reducing the city to size 1. You defeat the defender(s) but, instead of gaining a size 1 city, you end up with a pile of ash! (It was definitely size 2 when the attack started.)

...Hope this helps.

Yes, most interesting!

Hi all!
After long time I started again to play CivIII-PTW but have the following problem: I saved the multiplayer game but loading it gives me only a single player game.

How do I save a multiplayer game such that I can restart a multiplayer game, is this possible?...

Norbert, welcome to the CFC.

Can't answer your question, but if you don't get a Quick Answer here, try:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/forumdisplay.php?f=87

 

[sercer88]

What I meant for Communism, is like... you can have up to 95% corruption in Republic. so 5% of 24 shields = 1.2 shields! Then no doubt CE are better. But may Communism have corruption above 50% in the worst case? I'd like to know this before wasting worker time mining everything, just to find that city X has 55% corruption, in which case it would have been better to irrigate everything and make CE.

Well, the more cities you have (if you're over the city limit, that is) then the more corruption you have in all of your cities...but I'm not sure if that can get over 50%. You might have a city like that if you have a HUGE empire on a HUGE map...and that city doesn't have courthouse and Police station.

About commerce, when I sorted my cities by commerce, some gave lots of gpt, but that was because some were producing just wealth... after swiching all to build units, they sorted differently. Now I know that wealth goes only to treasury, but I was unsure about tourism.

When you sort the city by commerce, you can only sort them by tax or science output: so I assume you were sorting them by tax. That's why your city order would be different if you changed some wealth builds to unit builds.

 

[Lord Emsworth]

Thanks to Lord Emsworth & Padma for some enlightening and thought-provoking comments.

In the HOF PTW smaller map, higher level, conquest victories, boogaboo extensively demonstrated that you could lure the AI's defenders (usually warriors) out of a city with an Aztec warrior used as "bait". After their warriors came out of the city, your pack of Aztec warriors could capture the AI's city and quite likely eliminate that AI. Is this an exploit or sound strategy.........knowing that the AI will essentially under-defend its city?

"Sound strategy" and "exploit" do not necessarily contradict. I am not aquainted with this technique, but stated this way I would say it sounds at least borderline exploitive and like a sound strategy.

OTOH, what on the battlefield is not exploitive?

 

[Walliard]

OTOH, what on the battlefield is not exploitive?

It's an established fact.

 

[Whoman69]

Thank you for the answers Aabraxan and Rodrig0 but I did find the ToE worthless to me. Perhaps I did something wrong but it did not ask me what I wanted to build so I got worthless techs chivalry and monarchy when I was in the modern age.

Another question then from those answers. In my latest game I had built Construction but was still not able to build from the middle ages chart. Does one need to finish all the open ended lines to move on to the next age?

 

[Aabraxan]

Thank you for the answers Aabraxan and Rodrig0 but I did find the ToE worthless to me. Perhaps I did something wrong but it did not ask me what I wanted to build so I got worthless techs chivalry and monarchy when I was in the modern age.

Are you going to the Big Picture, or just accepting your science advisor's advice on what to research next?

Another question then from those answers. In my latest game I had built Construction but was still not able to build from the middle ages chart. Does one need to finish all the open ended lines to move on to the next age?

Yes. Anything without the circle & slash is a required tech and must be completed before you can advance to the next age.

 

[EMan]

Yes, that's right.

Edit: X-Post with Aabraxan.

 

[Optional]

Thank you for the answers Aabraxan and Rodrig0 but I did find the ToE worthless to me. Perhaps I did something wrong but it did not ask me what I wanted to build so I got worthless techs chivalry and monarchy when I was in the modern age.

In Conquests - the most recent edition of Civ 3 - you can choose your two techs after you built the Theory of Evolution, but I believe in earlier editions of Civ this was not the case. Unless I'm very mistaken, you did not have a choice in Vanilla, and maybe also not in Play the World. You just got automatically two techs asigned to you; usually two techs earliest in the tech tree.
So yes, if you hadn't got Monarchy and Chivalry yet, then that's what you would get. The only way I can think of avoiding that from happening is to trade for Monarchy and Chivalry first, or any tech that is a bit 'old', before you get the Theory of Evolution.
Or get Conquests...

 

[Dezzilisk]

Temple Of Evolution?

I think maybe you mixed it up with ToA, i quite often do that myself

I seem to remember ToE just giving me the techs i was researching, maybe if you don't have the pop up box asking for the next tech you want it just gives two of the earlier ones?

 

[Optional]

Temple Of Evolution?

I've edited my post; as you had rightly spotted, I was talking about the Theory of Evolution.

Right, since this is a question forum, here's a question:
Does the AI respect the Great Wall? What I mean is: is the AI less likely to declare on you when you have built the Great Wall?

I've always read in these forums that the Great Wall is fairly useless, as you want to be attacking the AI, and not sitting in your towns waiting for the blows.
So I never built the Great Wall, but in a recent game I missed the Great Lighthouse, and the only thing I could cascade down to was the Great Wall. I had a very peaceful Middle Ages, then the Great Wall expired, and almost straight after most of my neighbors declared war on me. Coincidence?

 

[Dezzilisk]

I was just pointing it out to be a dick, ive done it myself so many times its not funny

I agree that the Great Wall is pretty useless too, i cant remember how many sheilds it costs but its not worth it when you can just build the walls yourself in the outer cities of your empire.