Quick Answers / 'Newbie' Questions

[Roland Johansen]

Thanks. It always seems to me that my religion spreads slowly unless I pump out missionaries, but maybe I've been unlucky and not paid enough attention.

It seems to go fast when you're linked via a foreign trade route. Maybe the speed of the religion spread is linked to the amount of trade that is happening between the cities and tha amount of trade with a foreign city is always a lot bigger.

Next question: What's the earliest people often go conquering? Obviously situational, but when do the combat numbers and development tend to favor offense? With warriors (vs warriors)? With axemen (vs archers)? Or should I (generally) wait till swords (vs. archers and axemen)? Since I'll be Japan, each will have Combat I and one level (from barracks) of City Raider, plus CR2 if they happen to kill a barbarian. I know it's kind of a lazy question, but I don't get enough playtime to test it all out without asking.

I myself don't do a lot of rushing because I modded my game a little and the modifications are not helpful for the rushing tactic. Also, I play on huge maps and rushing your enemy is not as easy there then on small maps.

The first large scale offensives people do, usually happen with axemen vs archers before the defence bonuses from the cities become too large. Some people also like to harass the enemy even earlier by stealing a worker from them with a warrior or archer. Then they keep the unit around on defensive terrain around the enemy city and let the enemy suicide some units on it or try to slow down its development. But if you go straight for axemen from the start of the game and then start chopping forests to get a lot of them, then you can get an army of axemen very early. It might be a good idea to develop the technology for cottages fast so that you can maintain the larger empire that you get from your conquests.



It gives your unit a free attack before the other unit starts fighting. This is very important because combat strength is quickly reduced by wounds, so if my unit is slightly damaged by your first striker's free shot, he will fight poorly in subsequent rounds and your unit is more likely to win, and with less damage.

Update: I did a worldbuilder test of lining up three french riflemen with combat1 on open ground and attacking them each with a rifleman with drill 1 (0-1 first strikes). One of Napoleon's didn't get his promotion somehow. The drilled riflemen had a 34% chance of beating the combat1 riflemen, and both died trying (one French rifleman was 1/2 killed, and the other 2/3 killed). The other drilled rifleman had a 53% chance of killing his <i> unpromoted </i> enemy, and died trying (French unit half killed). My conclusion is that in practical terms, first strike ain't all it ought to be, and while it might be a nice bonus on camel archers and samurai (although far short of the extra strength or major bonus against likely enemies Praetorians, Redcoats, Immortals etc get), a promo spent on drill could be better spent elsewhere. If any of the more experienced players can speak up for first strike/drill, I'd appreciate being set straight, cause a 6% gain (50/50 to 53/47) hardly seems worth spending a promotion. It didn't occur to me to check the percentages on a combat1 vs. unpromoted unit of the same type would be, but I bet it's more than 53%.

This is a good test and it shows that first strikes are usually not such a good promotion. Such tests have been done before and are the reason that a lot of people think that first strikes are a useless promotion. I largely agree with that assessment, but it is not entirely true.

As sweetpete correctly remarks, a first strike is more useful on a unit that is probably going to win anyway, on a strong unit. The damage of the first strike is related to the comparison in strength between the fighting units. The strength promotion is always related to the basic strength of the unit. So a strength promotion on an city defence 3 longbowman is not very great. It increases the strength of the unit form 175% of 6 to 185% of 6. If you think that the longbowman will probably have a terrain defence bonus of say 90% (25% from longbowman city bonus, 40% from culture, 25% from fortified), then it's only an increase from 265% of 6 to 275% of 6. A relative increase of only 3.8%.
The first strike promotion would work with the full modified strength of the defending longbowman.

Also, first strike defenders will often not be wounded as badly after winning a battle because a lot of damage they do before actual combat starts. So they can succesfully defend against more than 1 enemy.

A first strike promotion that increases the number of first strikes of a unit from 5 to 6 is actually worth a lot more than a first strike promotion that increases the number of first strikes from 0 to 1. I'll try to show that intuitively.
Assume that a first strike does 15 damage per shot (it's actually not a fixed number).
Then a promotion from 0 to 1 first strikes causes the unit with first strikes to fight a unit of 85 hitpoints instead of 100 hitpoints.
The promotion from 5 to 6 first strikes causes the unit with first strikes to fight a unit of 10 hitpoints instead of 25 hitpoints.
You can see that the second case has a far more drastic effect on the difference in strength between the fighting units.

The drill promotion increases that effect because they give more first strikes with the later promotions. Drill 4 give 2 extra first strikes while Drill 1 only gives 1 extra first strike chance.

A drill 4 defender in a city is a formidable opponent. A drill 4 longbowman has 4-7 first strikes and probably a strength advantage against the attacker because of the city bonusses. So it will almost totally destroy the attacker before the actual fight begins. The problem is that the unit will be weak compared to the city defence longbowman until it has a lot of drill promotions. Drill promotions are only good in numbers.

A tank or modern armor with lots of drill promotions and fighting inferior opponents will get almost no damage and can move on without healing periods.

However, for the past 500 or so years, my workboats have not been recognising fish (in my own territory, coastal). Previously I had been able to turn them into fishing boats, but not anymore

Sorry, I have no idea why that would happen. Are you sure that the fish/crab/clam are inside your borders? Upload a savegame or show us a screenshot. Then we may be able to help better.

Also, all but one of my cities has been showing unhealthiness for almost the entire game. They all have aqueducts and ample food/water supply. I have built Markets and Grocers, assuming this will also help with food supply. I am almost at the point in the game where I discover Medicine, perhaps this will solve my problem. It does not seem to have had a negative influence on my Civ, more I am puzzled as I have not been able to fix my people

Your cities are unhealthy if the unhealthy number is larger then the health number. Each additional citizen adds 1 unhealthyness and some buildings add unhealthyness (forge, factory, coal plant, airport). So large cities with these buildings will have a lot of unhealthyness. This can be compensated by the healthyness bonusses from the buildings that you mention. However, the bonus from groceries, graneries and harbors come from doubling the health bonus of certain resources. If you do not have access to these resources, then you don't get the health bonus from them and you do not get the doubling effect from these buildings.

Hi everyone, I bought the game second hand, and it came without a manual !, so i ahave to ask here... What are the changes made in the difficulty levels?? eg. happiness etc. I'd like to know exactly what each level changes.
Can someone point me to a thread or reference with this info. thanks ..

I don't know if such a reference exists. All the bonusses and penalties associated with the difficulty level are governed by the file CIV4HandicapInfo.xml which can be found in the directory ...\Civilization 4\Assets\XML\GameInfo

It's not that difficult to read the xml-file, so it might help you. Just use any text editor to read it (wordpad would do).

Ok how do I establish a trade route

They are created automatically. If two cities are connected by roads/railroads/rivers/coastal areas, then they can trade with eachother. To trade with other nations, you also need open borders and not enable the mercantalism civic.

The number of trade routes that a city can have depends on the progress that you've made on the technology tree. You start with 1 trade route and after currency get another. Then the free market civic allows another and the corporation technology allows another. The great lighthouse wonder allows 2 extra trade routes in coastal cities and there's a UN resolution (single currency) that allows another trade route.

 

[The Thracian]

Ok I have one more question are you able to drag out where you want a road to go and your workers build it?

 

[Roland Johansen]

Ok I have one more question are you able to drag out where you want a road to go and your workers build it?

You can use ALT-r to build road to the square you click. But the worker will pick the shortest route to build the road. So that might not be exactly what you want, but it is the best the game has to offer. There's also the automation 'build trade route network'.

 

[jayron32]

I am playing as Malinese, things are going well for me, financially and culturally

However, for the past 500 or so years, my workboats have not been recognising fish (in my own territory, coastal). Previously I had been able to turn them into fishing boats, but not anymore

Also, all but one of my cities has been showing unhealthiness for almost the entire game. They all have aqueducts and ample food/water supply. I have built Markets and Grocers, assuming this will also help with food supply. I am almost at the point in the game where I discover Medicine, perhaps this will solve my problem. It does not seem to have had a negative influence on my Civ, more I am puzzled as I have not been able to fix my people

Any ideas on either?

Thanks

ps... Medicine/hospitals has not helped their health *darnit*

One possible problem ( I ran into this once before I figured it out) Check to see that they are not already being fished. Hang the cursor over the resource. If it doesn't say in red fishing boats required than you already have one there. If you capture an enemy city, and didn't send anything to destroy the boat, that it will stay. You may have been recieving the fish all along.

 

[ChicagoCubs]

Does war weariness only make people unhappy?

For example, in a one city challenge, I built the Globe Theatre (no unhappy people in city where built). Can I be a war with someone for ever and ever (after building the Globe) without any adverse effects?

 

[Roland Johansen]

Does war weariness only make people unhappy?

Yes.

For example, in a one city challenge, I built the Globe Theatre (no unhappy people in city where built). Can I be a war with someone for ever and ever (after building the Globe) without any adverse effects?

That one city will not suffer any adverse effects from war weariness. Your other cities will still suffer.

 

[Snerk]

The number of trade routes that a city can have depends on the progress that you've made on the technology tree. You start with 1 trade route and after currency get another. Then the free market civic allows another and the corporation technology allows another. The great lighthouse wonder allows 2 extra trade routes in coastal cities and there's a UN resolution (single currency) that allows another trade route.

Doesn't it also have something to do with the size of the given city? I notice my highly populated cities have more traded routes then my smaller cities.
But perhaps im mistaken.

 

[Roland Johansen]

Doesn't it also have something to do with the size of the given city? I notice my highly populated cities have more traded routes then my smaller cities.
But perhaps im mistaken.

The bigger cities get more profitable trade routes. So a size 23 city with a harbor can get 3 foreign trade routes with revenue 12, 9 and 8 while a size 3 inland city gets 3 domestic trade routes with revenue 1, 1 and 1.

The bigger coastal cities with harbors get the more profitable foreign trade routes and the smaller cities or the inland cities get less profitable domestic trade routes.
Each foreign city can only trade with one of your cities, so the most profitable cities are chosen for the foreign trade routes. After all the foreign trade routes have been allocated to certain big cities of your empire, the rest of the cities get domestic trade routes with your biggest cities.
Trade routes are only one-way. So Rome can have a trade route with Berlin while Berlin doesn't have a trade route with Rome.

The number of trade routes and the value of the individual trade routes are just arbitrary numbers chosen for this example.

 

[Snerk]

I stand corrected.

Bravo roland!

 

[Harrier]

It gives your unit a free attack before the other unit starts fighting. This is very important because combat strength is quickly reduced by wounds, so if my unit is slightly damaged by your first striker's free shot, he will fight poorly in subsequent rounds and your unit is more likely to win, and with less damage.

Update: I did a worldbuilder test of lining up three french riflemen with combat1 on open ground and attacking them each with a rifleman with drill 1 (0-1 first strikes). One of Napoleon's didn't get his promotion somehow. The drilled riflemen had a 34% chance of beating the combat1 riflemen, and both died trying (one French rifleman was 1/2 killed, and the other 2/3 killed). The other drilled rifleman had a 53% chance of killing his <i> unpromoted </i> enemy, and died trying (French unit half killed). My conclusion is that in practical terms, first strike ain't all it ought to be, and while it might be a nice bonus on camel archers and samurai (although far short of the extra strength or major bonus against likely enemies Praetorians, Redcoats, Immortals etc get), a promo spent on drill could be better spent elsewhere. If any of the more experienced players can speak up for first strike/drill, I'd appreciate being set straight, cause a 6% gain (50/50 to 53/47) hardly seems worth spending a promotion. It didn't occur to me to check the percentages on a combat1 vs. unpromoted unit of the same type would be, but I bet it's more than 53%.

Unless I misread your post - try doing the test the other way round. That is give first strike/drill to the defender not the attacker.

I may be wrong but I thought that the purpose of first stike was to allow the defender to get a shot in first on the first round - not the attacker.

Also the effect is cancelled if the attacker has first strike as well as the defender.

 

[Roland Johansen]

Unless I misread your post - try doing the test the other way round. That is give first strike/drill to the defender not the attacker.

I may be wrong but I thought that the purpose of first stike was to allow the defender to get a shot in first on the first round - not the attacker.

Also the effect is cancelled if the attacker has first strike as well as the defender.

First strikes work for defenders as well as for attackers. In civ3, there was an option for a defensive first strike. Maybe you're mixing the two games up.

You are right that first strikes on both sides of a fight cancel each other out. Although if a unit with 2 first strikes fights a unit with one first strike, then the unit with 2 first strikes still gets one first strike (and the unit with one first strike gets none).

 

[_alphaBeta_]

From the research conducted on this thread, first strikes are most useful when you have two units who are very close in strength (an even match). First strike, if it happens, will decisively break the tie in strength (more so than combat I). Otherwise, go with other promotions.

 

[Roland Johansen]

From the research conducted on this thread, first strikes are most useful when you have two units who are very close in strength (an even match). First strike, if it happens, will decisively break the tie in strength (more so than combat I). Otherwise, go with other promotions.

Arathorn has written an excellent article on combat and anyone who is mathematically inclined should definitely go and read it.

In the section on first strikes, he however contradicts himself.

He says:

If your unit is barely stronger with first-strike or barely weaker without first strike, then the first strike promotion is better than a strength promotion. ..... And if strength would change which unit is stronger, strength wins out.

(.... leaving out a section to show the contradiction more clearly)

I don't exactly know what he means to say, but he puts it a bit vague. There are a few assessments on first strikes that I think are more important and that are also in that section on first strikes.

The other thing, though, is that units with first strike are less likely to be wounded. First strike helps preserve hit points, so that a unit which won will be healthier.

One thing to note -- Combat I doesn't always give 10% to modified strength. An archer defending a city on a hill, for example, gains far less than 10% modified strength with Combat I (6 vs. 6.3). In cases with lots of bonuses, Drill might be the better promotion, potentially even over a 20/25% bonus. Work is still in progress on this.

A few examples to get a feeling for the thing:

A strength 10 unit with 1 first strike wins 56.8% of fights against a strength 10 unit.
A strength 10 unit with the first combat promotion wins 68.0% of fights against a strength 10 unit.

A strength 9 unit with 1 first strike wins 37.2% of fights against a strength 10 unit.
A strength 9 unit with the first combat promotion wins 37.1% of fights against a strength 10 unit.

A strength 11 unit with 1 first strike wins 73.8% of fights against a strength 10 unit.
A strength 11 unit with the first combat promotion wins 73.3% of fights against a strength 10 unit.

A strength 13 unit with 1 first strike wins 81.9% of fights against a strength 10 unit.
A strength 13 unit with the first combat promotion wins 88.6% of fights against a strength 10 unit.

A strength 7 unit with 1 first strike wins 14.4% of fights against a strength 10 unit.
A strength 7 unit with the first combat promotion wins 23.1% of fights against a strength 10 unit.

One time, 1 first strike is better, the other time the + 10% strength from the combat promotion. To understand why this is so, you'll have to read the article from Arathorn which is linked above. It has to do with certain jump points in strength.

It is very important to note that in the above examples 1 first strike was compared to + 10% strength. However, the drill 1 promotion only provides a chance on a first strike (of say 50%). So the value of the drill 1 promotion is clearly less than the value of the combat 1 promotion in the above situations.

An example that shows the strength of first strikes:
A strength 10 unit in a city is defending against 5 strength 10 units which are going to attack next turn. It however has a 100% defensive bonus from culture/fortifying/other bonuses.

Situation 1: I give the unit 5 combat promotions, increasing its strength to 10 + 100% of 10 + 50% of 10 (combat 5) = 25.
It now has a chance of 15.3 % to win all 5 battles.

Situation 2: I give the defending unit 5 first strikes. So it is a strength 20 unit with 5 first strikes:
It now has a 79.6% chance to win all 5 battles.

 

[The Thracian]

How Do I Stack Units?

 

[Roland Johansen]

How Do I Stack Units?

Stacking units is a different way of saying that you move multiple units onto the same tile. It's not a special maneuver or something like that.

 

[a4phantom]

Is this correct:
A city gains a defensive bonus from culture.
A city also gains a defensive bonus from walls and castles.
Only one of these, the higher, apply to any given battle (and is presumably the one shown on the map).
Walls and castles do not add to defense against gunpowder units (but do against cavalry and tanks).

Assuming I have all that straight, when I am shelling a city with bombard is it taking down both the culture and wall defensive bonus? I just see "defense reduced to 23%". Sorry if that's badly put, I'm tired.


2. How does unit maintainance work? In Civ3 you were allowed a certain number of units per city, altered by the size of the city and your government type. For every unit above that, you had to pay gpt. How does it work in Civ4?

 

[mice]

What's a good counter for Conquistadors, and a good counter for Grenadiers ?
Also is there a thread or reference for these counters anywhere? I read the bonuses but not all combinations are covered eg. counter for crossbows, or crossbows kill (........) very well.Horse archers are strongest against ( .....). that sort of thing. Is this info available anywhere ????

 

[a4phantom]

To directly answer your questions: Pikemen for Conquistadors (or knights), Cavalry for Grenadiers, Longbowmen (defending from anywhere but open terrain, ideally a city or hill) or knights to counter crossbows. Horse archers are strongest against catapults (so hopefully having a few in your stack should stave off collateral damage from suicide cats, although I don't know how collateral damage is applied), and should also mow down axemen who aren't on defensive terrain. Crossbows are probably primarily a counter for macemen, since each has a 50% bonus vs. melee but only the mace is melee. Unless you're defending a city on a hill (+75% for longbowmen), crossbows are probably your best bet against macemen.

Basically counters work like rock-paper-scissors, complicated by special circumstance bonuses (attacking or defending cities or certain terrain). In the early game, spears beat horse archers, horse archers beat axemen (on open ground) and catapults and pillage, axemen beat spears and swords, swords beat spears and archers, archers beat (when defending hills and cities) spears and axes.

In medieval times, pikemen beat knights, knights beat maces (10/8, but possibly not cost effectively since knights are expensive) and crossbows, maces beat pikes and (with city raider) try to beat longbows, longbows beat almost anything while defending cities, crossbows beat maces (and pikes, but that's a less likely match).

In the gunpowder era, grenadiers beat riflemen, riflemen beat cavalry, and cavalry beat grenadiers. At this time fighting offensively is hard because no unit can get city raider (unless grenadiers can, but I'm almost sure). But if you nurse ancient and medieval infantry to city raider3, you can upgrade them to city raiding riflemen/grenadiers and have a huge advantage in this era. Oh yeah and cannons can get city raider, and are countered by cavalry.

How does collateral damage get applied? If the unit defending my stack against the suicide cat beats it handily, will other units still get damaged? If the defending unit has first strike?

 

[mice]

A4phantom, cheers, great answer. This will improve my game. I cant answer the collateral damage question, but I think none is suffered in the stack if you attack the cannon. Could easily be wrong.

 

[actionmedia]

How does collateral damage get applied? If the unit defending my stack against the suicide cat beats it handily, will other units still get damaged? If the defending unit has first strike?

Even if you destroy the catapult or canon it will damage some of your troops from the stack. It depens of how many strikes the catapult can do before is detroied.